Is it time for the death penalty?

Should the death penalty be returned for murder?

  • Yes I believe in the death penalty for any murder.

    Votes: 58 42.0%

  • I am morally against the taking of life even for murder.

    Votes: 71 51.4%

  • I agree that it should be available for the murder of police etc.

    Votes: 9 6.5%
  • Total voters
    138
  • Poll closed .
gramps said:
Isn't that what I said ... in my own diplomatic little way :D
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Fair point! ....
 
Splog said:
I don't think it's about poverty.... it's about 'want' and greed.
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In which case the causes of want and greed need to be addressed.

Attempting to address crimes with punishment is only going to work if people both consider the punishment and think they'll get caught before they commit the crime, and I have considerable doubt that that is the case.
 
TriggerHappy said:
In which case the causes of want and greed need to be addressed.

Attempting to address crimes with punishment is only going to work if people both consider the punishment and think they'll get caught before they commit the crime, and I have considerable doubt that that is the case.
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Okay, how do you suggest greed is addressed?
 
TriggerHappy said:
In which case the causes of want and greed need to be addressed.

Attempting to address crimes with punishment is only going to work if people both consider the punishment and think they'll get caught before they commit the crime, and I have considerable doubt that that is the case.
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Perhaps? But people will always want more! I guess that's when it becomes greed.
 
I don't think it is about want and greed, and there is a higher rate of violent crime in areas of poverty. So whilst you still GET crime amongst the rich, you don't get as much violent crime.
I think the waters get very muddied by high profile cases, as opposed to the mundane stuff that happens all the time

A
 
How would you define poverty?
 
gramps said:
Okay, how do you suggest greed is addressed?
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I'm not in agreement that greed is the cause here, but supposing it is I'd look directly at the what generates want and need and currently it's the capitalist system that drives consumerism and feeds the marketing machine that tells people exactly what they 'need' and why.

But like I say, I'm unconvinced greed is one of the main contributors to crime, and certainly not a contributing factor for most murders.
 
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I don't need to define poverty. I think there are government measures for it, and I presume that the statistics that arise use that definition?
Either way, poorer areas tend to have higher rates of crime, including violent crime.

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Poverty is defined by the Government as ‘household income below 60 percent of median income’. The median is the income earned by the household in the middle of the income distribution.[19]
 
gramps said:
How would you define poverty?
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"Poverty is defined relative to the standards of living in a society at a specific time. People live in poverty when they are denied an income sufficient for their material needs and when these circumstances exclude them from taking part in activities which are an accepted part of daily life in that society."

Scottish Poverty Information Unit
 
Most, (though not all), people today have no idea what real poverty is.
 
gramps said:
Most, (though not all), people today have no idea what real poverty is.
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but poverty is relative. And actually, so what? IF, by today's definition of what poverty is, crime is higher in areas of poverty, then the relativism of poverty now to whatever YOU feel poverty is, is irrelevant.

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Headless Lois said:
but poverty is relative. And actually, so what? IF, by today's definition of what poverty is, crime is higher in areas of poverty, then the relativism of poverty now to whatever YOU feel poverty is, is irrelevant.

A
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There is a difference between 'poverty' and 'relative poverty' - all over the world there are areas where there is 'poverty' and nobody experiences that (or need experience it) in the UK today.
 
gramps said:
There is a difference between 'poverty' and 'relative poverty' - all over the world there are areas where there is 'poverty' and nobody experiences that (or need experience it) in the UK today.
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But in relation to crime, if there is a correlation between the uk definition of poverty and instances of violent crime, where is the relevance to poverty elsewhere?

A
 
Headless Lois said:
But in relation to crime, if there is a correlation between the uk definition of poverty and instances of violent crime, where is the relevance to poverty elsewhere?

A
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What I am saying is that the UK doesn't have a 'poverty' problem - 'poverty' is a condition whereas 'relative poverty' is a term, which in reality is meaningless ... hence 'relative poverty' is not an excuse for crime.
Visit parts of India, Africa and South America to experience 'poverty', visit the UK to experience 'relative poverty', e.g. "I can't afford the latest mobile" ("yes I have a mobile").
 
gramps said:
What I am saying is that the UK doesn't have a 'poverty' problem - 'poverty' is a condition whereas 'relative poverty' is a term, which in reality is meaningless ... hence 'relative poverty' is not an excuse for crime.
Visit parts of India, Africa and South America to experience 'poverty', visit the UK to experience 'relative poverty', e.g. "I can't afford the latest mobile" ("yes I have a mobile").
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Who said it is an excuse? The fact is that in areas of high poverty in the UK, relative or otherwise, there are higher instances of violent crime.
It is not an excuse, but it may well be a contributing factor. What 'real' poverty is in other countries remains an irrelevance
 
Headless Lois said:
Who said it is an excuse? The fact is that in areas of high poverty in the UK, relative or otherwise, there are higher instances of violent crime.
It is not an excuse, but it may well be a contributing factor. What 'real' poverty is in other countries remains an irrelevance
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What areas in the UK have high poverty?
 
Headless Lois said:
What 'real' poverty is in other countries remains an irrelevance
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No it doesn't, it is important to realise what REAL poverty is ... the sort of poverty that could by some be thought to justify crimes such as theft - that sort of poverty is absent in the UK ... but we're a long way from the death penalty now.
 
gramps said:
No it doesn't, it is important to realise what REAL poverty is ... the sort of poverty that could by some be thought to justify crimes such as theft - that sort of poverty is absent in the UK ... but we're a long way from the death penalty now.
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Yes, we are a long way from the death penalty. I would hazard a guess that a lot of people who live in the uk defined state of poverty would struggle to find the countries you mention on a map, much less what defines poverty there.

Anyway, death penalty. I'm against it.
<collect bleeding heart liberal badge>
 
Splog said:
What areas in the UK have high poverty?
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Some parts of Glasgow, before I worked in one of said areas I thought such dire living conditions had been wiped out with the post war demolition of the slums in places like Gorbals.
 
pretty sure any city which has a single Letter at the start of the postcode has "high poverty" - have riven through gorbals and Clydeside in Glasgow...

Certain parts of Manchester - Moss side for example.........

In fact pretty much any city has "nice affulent parts" and "crappy poor parts" - For exapmple, Norwich

Nice = Cringleford, Hethersett, Old Costessey
Not so nice = Larkman, Mile X,
 
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