Is it time for the death penalty?

Should the death penalty be returned for murder?

  • Yes I believe in the death penalty for any murder.

    Votes: 58 42.0%

  • I am morally against the taking of life even for murder.

    Votes: 71 51.4%

  • I agree that it should be available for the murder of police etc.

    Votes: 9 6.5%
  • Total voters
    138
  • Poll closed .
for some reason it does not say how many manslaughter cases there are or have they fallen, alot of murder cases get down graded to manslaughter anyways.

I think people have stopped killing in favour of stabbing you now, maybe thats the reason why ha ha!!!!

spike
 
The point you're missing is killings will still happen regardless of what sentence they stand in threat of. They still happened in the middle ages when all manner of ghastly and barbaric executions were commonplace. The vast majority simply don't envisage being caught anyway.

The argument that it's no deterrent isn't really in debate and isn't the point. If our Colorado killer is deemed fit to plead, and if, after the fair trial he's entitled to, he subsequently gets executed, then he's no longer a threat to anyone else - he can't to it again - ever! Society is rid of him and the expense of keeping the pond life for the rest of his days.
 
It's more expensive to administer the death penalty than keep him in for life. It's one of the reasons Colorado (and other states) were considering abolishing it.
 
Last edited:
Laudrup said:
It's more expensive to administer the death penalty than keep him in for life. It's one of the reasons Colorado (and other states) were considering abolishing it.
Click to expand...

I do not understand or maybe I am missing something but how can it cost more to give some one a leathal injection than it does to keep them locked up for the next 30-40 years or how ever long it would take them to die of natural causes???

spike
 
SpikeK6 said:
I do not understand or maybe I am missing something but how can it cost more to give some one a leathal injection than it does to keep them locked up for the next 30-40 years or how ever long it would take them to die of natural causes???

spike
Click to expand...

If you look back I quoted figures explaining. But principally the trial costs lots more, death row imprisonment costs about 4 times as much per year, and the execution itself costs.
 
SpikeK6 said:
I do not understand or maybe I am missing something but how can it cost more to give some one a leathal injection than it does to keep them locked up for the next 30-40 years or how ever long it would take them to die of natural causes???

spike
Click to expand...

Jury selection, trials, appeals, observation and seclusion of death row inmates is highly costly. Then if you do get to execute the person a decade or two decades later after last minute appeals etc you've got another few hundred/thousand prisoners clogging up the system behind them. It's not even a deterrent, it's costs an absolute fortune and goes against the European Human Rights we've urged others to comply with. The death penalty has had its day for us.
 
boyfalldown said:
If you look back I quoted figures explaining. But principally the trial costs lots more, death row imprisonment costs about 4 times as much per year, and the execution itself costs.
Click to expand...

Sorry i must have missed them in all the other posts

Laudrup said:
Jury selection, trials, appeals, observation and seclusion of death row inmates is highly costly. Then if you do get to execute the person a decade or two decades later after last minute appeals etc you've got another few hundred/thousand prisoners clogging up the system behind them. It's not even a deterrent, it's costs an absolute fortune and goes against the European Human Rights we've urged others to comply with. The death penalty has had its day for us.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, understand now.

spike
 
Laudrup said:
It's more expensive to administer the death penalty than keep him in for life. .
Click to expand...

that I'm afraid is absolute garbage - administering the death penalty hardly costs anything at all - its all bleeding heart inspired repeated appeal process thats expensive - however even that isnt as expensive as keeping someone in prison for 50 or 60 years

(it may not be quite as clear cut as to whether it is cheaper than keeping in for 5 yeasrs then releasing him on a badly supervised parole - but only if you don't count the costs of subsequent reoffending and reaprehension)

You could administer the death penalty far more cheaply - trial, one apeal, one plea for clemency - bullet in the head (or long drop hanging , guilotine, lethal injection , gas chamber - etc) over in less than 6 months from conviction
 
Last edited:
big soft moose said:
that I'm afraid is absolute garbage - administering the death penalty hardly costs anything at all - its all bleeding heart inspired repeated appeal process thats expensive - however even that isnt as expensive as keeping someone in prison for 50 or 60 years

(it may not be quite as clear cut as to whether it is cheaper than keeping in for 5 yeasrs then releasing him on a badly supervised parole - but only if you don't count the costs of subsequent reoffending and reaprehension)
Click to expand...

It's substantially more expensive to keep a prisoner on death row then 'normal' prison. About 4 times as much in California. All the figures show you're mistaken about this
 
but if you only keep him for 6 months maximum because you don't go into the two decade ridiculous appeal process, even if thats true that only equates to the cost of 2 years normal imprisonment and thus its about one thirtieth of a the cost of a whole life term.
 
Last edited:
big soft moose said:
but if you only keep him for 6 months maximum because you don't go into the two decade ridiculous appeal process, even if thats true that only equates to the cost of 2 years normal imprisonment and thus its about one thirtieth of a the cost of a whole life term.
Click to expand...

That's all good in theory, but it does rather ignore that:

Just keeping a prisoner on death row costs much (about 4 times as much) more then normal prisoners per year.

And that this costs discussion is directly in response to CT's comment it would be cheaper to execute the guy responsible for last nights horrors. It wouldn't and that shown time and again. It's alright to say the decades long appeals process shouldn't happen but it does and the comparative costs are real and published.
 
Wait, so people actually care more about the cost of it all than the ethics of sentencing someone to death? I think my faith in humanity died just a little bit reading this thread.
 
Well no actually it would be exceptionally cheap to execute the guy responsible for last nights horrors - bring him out of the cell, last cigarrete and blindfold , make him kneel, one 9mm to the head , total cost one 9mm bullet and a couple of guards for about an hour - chickenfeed

The decades long appeals process isnt the fault of those that advocate the death penalty - it is foisted on them by those that don't and more cynically by lawyers who are getting rich milking the process.

When Britain used to have capital punishment we didnt have any of that garbage, and theres no reason why we should have it again, if we went back to CP
 
When Britain used to have capital punishment we didnt have any of that garbage, and theres no reason why we should have it again, if we went back to CP

Thats because we didnt have human rights lawyers.
 
pepi1967 said:
When Britain used to have capital punishment we didnt have any of that garbage, and theres no reason why we should have it again, if we went back to CP

Thats because we didnt have human rights lawyers.
Click to expand...

Scott, if you use the Quote facility, it's a lot less confusing and allows people to follow conversations a lot more easily.
 
Just an aside - if anyone is interested in the general subject of death row you might be interested in the Werner Hertzog documentary series "Death Row" and film "Into the Abyss".
 
it would seem to me that there are two ways to go about this.
With todays technology and ways of prooving someone is guilty absolute then why not just get rid, like that guy last night, is he guilty??? the answer is most deffinatly yes so save alot of money and do away with.

Anyone who cannot be prooved absolute to have committed murder then they get life, and by that i mean life, so appeals can be brought forward and new eveidence might come about, so if fresh evidence comes about he is not guilty release him with a bit of cash and say sorry, just like what happens now, if new evidence coem about to proove him absolute go back to first scenario and just doway with them, saving money in the process.

seems this way it can suit all opinions or beliefs in one go

spike
 
tiler65 said:
good grief.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492
Click to expand...

Given how heavily armed he was i'm quite suprised the police didnt take the oportunity to exercise a little CP of their own and just shoot him on the spot - with that much weaponry on the scene it would have come out as a righteous shoot.

That aside this a a great example of what i was saying about apeals - there is no doubt at all that they have the right man , and the only question is whether he's fit to plead. If its established that he is , trial and conviction are pretty much a foregone conclusion and appeals a waste of everryones time .. just take him out back and nine him to the head.
 
boyfalldown said:
Equally has it decreased in those countries that regularly carry it out?
Click to expand...

Yes, as those that have been given the death penalty can no longer commit another crime.

I think that the punishments given in this nanny state country are too soft, prison life is too easy, when an offender comes out of prison they need to be of the mindset that they never want to go back there again.
 
Chain gangs, hard labour etc - Alabamba have the right idea IMO

plus basic amenities only - bed, toilet and thats it no tvs, computer, xbox, sports facilities etc - if they want extras they have to earn the money to pay for them working 40 hours a week doing nasty ****** manual work like road ganging, and shovelling crap out of ditches
 
big soft moose said:
Chain gangs, hard labour etc - Alabamba have the right idea IMO

plus basic amenities only - bed, toilet and thats it no tvs, computer, xbox, sports facilities etc - if they want extras they have to earn the money to pay for them working 40 hours a week doing nasty ****** manual work like road ganging, and shovelling crap out of ditches
Click to expand...

I'm not advocating an easy life in prison....but I'd like to see evidence as to the efficacy of this approach.

Commit an offence + enter Alabama prison system = reduced recidivism.

Regards.
 
big soft moose said:
Chain gangs, hard labour etc - Alabamba have the right idea IMO

plus basic amenities only - bed, toilet and thats it no tvs, computer, xbox, sports facilities etc - if they want extras they have to earn the money to pay for them working 40 hours a week doing nasty ****** manual work like road ganging, and shovelling crap out of ditches
Click to expand...

Works well according to the statistics. They are over the national average for murder year upon year.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state
 
Last edited:
The question isn't how to treat people when they have committed crime, but to figure out how to stop people becoming involved in crime in the first place.

The Denver situation. I am sure he will be found sane enough to answer the charges and be put to death, many of you will believe rightly. I have 2 questions though. Do you really think the notion of a death penalty would effect the thoughts a person who believed he was perfectly entitled to dress up as The Joker, throw a gas canister into a movie theatre and shoot people at random? Or was he simply severely mentally ill?
 
ding76uk said:
The question isn't how to treat people when they have committed crime, but to figure out how to stop people becoming involved in crime in the first place.

The Denver situation. I am sure he will be found sane enough to answer the charges and be put to death, many of you will believe rightly. I have 2 questions though. Do you really think the notion of a death penalty would effect the thoughts a person who believed he was perfectly entitled to dress up as The Joker, throw a gas canister into a movie theatre and shoot people at random? Or was he simply severely mentally ill?
Click to expand...

I thought the op was about a just punishment? I would think that anyone who kills for pleasure is seriously mentally ill ?....
 
You don't think easy access to weapons makes the US an unsuitable comparison to the UK ... I mean he just walked into a store and bought 4 guns!
 
But it can't just be the threat of a death penalty, would the crime even have happened if he couldn't have just bought guns like sweets?
 
gramps said:
You don't think easy access to weapons makes the US an unsuitable comparison to the UK ... I mean he just walked into a store and bought 4 guns!
Click to expand...

Switzerland has very high gun ownership levels. Nearly that of the US fact, but nothing like the homicide rate, in fact the homicide rate compares to the UK (all per capita)
 
boyfalldown said:
Switzerland has very high gun ownership levels. Nearly that of the US fact, but nothing like the homicide rate, in fact the homicide rate compares to the UK (all per capita)
Click to expand...

I really wouldn't compare the average Swiss with the average Yank though ... comparisons again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top