Is it time for the death penalty?

Should the death penalty be returned for murder?

  • Yes I believe in the death penalty for any murder.

    Votes: 58 42.0%

  • I am morally against the taking of life even for murder.

    Votes: 71 51.4%

  • I agree that it should be available for the murder of police etc.

    Votes: 9 6.5%
  • Total voters
    138
  • Poll closed .
antihero said:
I'd like to see prison actually become a deterrent by actually being a punishment. No wages, no perks, no rights. Intensive labor. Bring back the chain gangs. Might actually stop people wanting to go to prison.
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This wont help on its own

perhaps sentencing an offender to a hard punishment that must be finished, then followed by a lengthy term of rehabilitation, with minimum terms for both will do the job
 
gramps said:
Maybe I should have added a 4th option of only where there is independent eye-witness evidence (as seems could be the case with this latest murder) but I can't edit the poll.
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Isn't eye witness testimony considered amongst the least reliable?
 
I vote for bringing in the death penalty.

If someone murdered all of my family I would want them dead, removed from this earth forever, and I know that if I happened to stumble across the person whilst they were commiting the murder of my family I would kill them myself!

How many people have been wrongly executed later to discover they were innocent? What's the percentage?

I don't think it should just be for murder though. I think pedophiles should get the death penalty too
 
Sorry but there is not and option for me to vote for, as I don't thing that there should be a death penalty, but not for a moral reason :( I just would hate to thing that more people could be put to death in error :(

Personally I want a life sentence to mean just that LWOP "Life With Out Parole" and I want prison to be truly hard, so no telly's pool tables etc, the only facilities should be a basic cot, a sink and shower and a toilet, and an outside space...
 
srichards said:
No. A civilised society does not tell people killing is so wrong you kill someone for doing it!
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The sad thing is there is no such thing as a civilised society. I see that demonstrated here time and time again. I have read many posts in which not only do people cheer in the suffering of a person, they enjoy and take pleasure from it.

We kid ourselves that we are "civilised" but we are not. We condemn the taliban for their use of arbitrary execution, and at the same time some of the "civilised" westerners love seeing people maimed or even killed.

As a species, we have a lot to learn.
 
MWHCVT said:
Personally I want a life sentence to mean just that LWOP "Life With Out Parole" and I want prison to be truly hard, so no telly's pool tables etc, the only facilities should be a basic cot, a sink and shower and a toilet, and an outside space...
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So, having brutalised the inmates, you'll then need similarly brutal staff to keep them in check.
This doesn't seem to me to offer prospects for improvement of anything.
 
allegoricus said:
It's the number of murders, not convictions, that are the crux of any argument, surely?
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maybe, but that the begs the question of whats murder and whats manslaughter (or even self defence)

at least if there is a conviction is hard to argue its anything else
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
..or the death of another faith, or colour, sexuality ... its no different to any other hate crime.
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Sorry but to call a judicial execution for murder a 'hate crime' is ludicrous and demeans true crimes of hate.
 
gramps said:
Sorry but to call a judicial execution for murder a 'hate crime' is ludicrous and demeans true crimes of hate.
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I think Adam means that murdering a police officer because they are a Police Officer is no different to any other hate crime
 
Being a christian i should say no to the death penalty but i have voted yes as something has to be done with the way the law deals with crime these days. Murderers, rapists, pedos should all get much harsher punishments, maybe even death but obvioulsy there must be no doubt that they are guilty first.
 
Steep said:
The poll is flawed and biased towards a 'yes' answer.

It needs another option - "No because too often in the past an executed person has been later found to be innocent" You can't apologise and make amends to a corpse.
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No it isn't, there is a clear option to say that you do not agree!
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Maybe there is more of a case for arming the police.
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Police forces can't afford to arm all officers anyway.

Tasers cost about £1000 each (plus maybe £200 for personal issue clothing etc) and the cartridges cost about £20-25 each plus the training is 2-3 days per year.

Guns cost a similar amount although the ammunition is vastly cheaper BUT the training is far more expensive!

The training extraction is a major issue which is why it is a specialised job.

This is before you get to the social questions of whether or not we want every single police officer to be armed. Do you know the statistics of how many police officers are shot with their own guns in the US? OR How many people are accidentally shot?

There are horror stories in this country about mistakes but most police forces have NEVER shot anyone. In countries where all officers are armed far more mistakes are made.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
The sad thing is there is no such thing as a civilised society. I see that demonstrated here time and time again. I have read many posts in which not only do people cheer in the suffering of a person, they enjoy and take pleasure from it.

We kid ourselves that we are "civilised" but we are not. We condemn the taliban for their use of arbitrary execution, and at the same time some of the "civilised" westerners love seeing people maimed or even killed.

As a species, we have a lot to learn.
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Well said my man :)
 
allegoricus said:
Has it increased?
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In the UK I believe it has ... murder used to be headline news for days, today it often doesn't get a mention above the activities of some 'celebrity'.

Even the punishment for murder has become laughable, how many murderers have been released after 5, 8, 10 years some being free to walk the streets in the same location as the widow/children of the murdered person as a constant reminder of the injustice of 'the system'?
 
gramps said:
Could they if the prisons were emptier?
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Prisons and police are different budgets. If the politicians saved money on the prisons they would probably just give themselves another rise.
 
gramps said:
In the UK I believe it has ... murder used to be headline news for days, today it often doesn't get a mention above the activities of some 'celebrity'.

Even the punishment for murder has become laughable, how many murderers have been released after 5, 8, 10 years some being free to walk the streets in the same location as the widow/children of the murdered person as a constant reminder of the injustice of 'the system'?
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As above murder rate is the US is 5 per 100,000 citizens and 1.2 per 100,000 in the UK. Its obviously not deterring very much.

I think the news thing is very much a comment on society in general, more then the murder rate

I happen to agree there should be much harsher sentences for murder life meaning life, but can't support the death sentence
 
I honestly don't think that comparing the US with the UK is valid, the prevalence of guns and the general gun culture there for a start makes it a totally different scenario IMO ... e.g. the recent case involving the neighbourhood watch guy and the lad Travone.
 
boyfalldown said:
isn't any percentage to high?
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no at some point there has to be collateral damage.

If 3000 pedophiles and murderers were killed and 1 of them was innocent, i'd say that was justifiable collateral damage.

It's why I could only ever be a prosecution lawer and not defence. I'd much rather put innocent people in jail than let guilty people get off scot free.
 
surely the US isn't the only country in the wrold that has the death penalty - why only compare to the US?
 
gramps said:
I honestly don't think that comparing the US with the UK is valid, the prevalence of guns and the general gun culture there for a start makes it a totally different scenario IMO ... e.g. the recent case involving the neighbourhood watch guy and the lad Travone.
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but where would you wish to compare to then. I *think* thats the only western country that still actually executes. All the others that still have death penalty of statute have a moriatum on it IIRC. Of course it could be the figures don't match your assumptions ;)

Of course if you wanted comparible gun ownership then Switzerland and the US would be about equal by that measure.
 
joescrivens said:
no at some point there has to be collateral damage.

If 3000 pedophiles and murderers were killed and 1 of them was innocent, i'd say that was justifiable collateral damage.
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And if that one person happened to be you, or a member of your family?
 
Not voted as there's too much gray and only 4 options ;)

I remember a case from years back where some drunk ferrel yoofs (around 17-18 years old) set about a Goth couple "just 'cos they were different". As a direct result of the brutal attack the male Goth died.

OK, this wasn't a premeditated attack but they made a conscious effort and took deliberate actions to inflict pain/injury on their victims.

Those accussed of the murder never showed any remorse for their actions or denied what they'd done.

They were given (IMO) a rediculously short sentence (around 15 years IIRC) and then appealed the length of the sentence as they thought it was too long!!

Utter craziness!!!

So what is the correct way to deal with scum like this? The threat of prison seems to be ineffective, the death penalty deemed to Draconian but these excuses for human beings would seemingly have no regard for another human's life...... Could anyone ever be certain they would never pose a threat to others when released from prison?

In my opinion, the last sentence is key for anyone who commits "serious crime".

Deterrents are all well and good but in the heat of the moment situation they tend to go out of the window, those who have intent will normally have a plan in place to not get caught and then there are those who will commit regardless of measure in place as they think they either wont get caught or are insane (or maybe a combination of the two).
 
allegoricus said:
So, having brutalised the inmates, you'll then need similarly brutal staff to keep them in check.
This doesn't seem to me to offer prospects for improvement of anything.
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I didn't say I wanted to brutalise the convicts did I, what I said was I wanted to strip them of there creature comforts stuff like TV's etc, prison should not be a comfortable place to be...there is nothing to say that while in prison the convicts could earn those privileges..
 
joescrivens said:
no at some point there has to be collateral damage.

If 3000 pedophiles and murderers were killed and 1 of them was innocent, i'd say that was justifiable collateral damage.

It's why I could only ever be a prosecution lawer and not defence. I'd much rather put innocent people in jail than let guilty people get off scot free.
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Two scenarios :-

Joe standing on the scaffold waiting to take the long drop, his last words...
"It's ok mum, it's ok dad, I don't mind being killed here today, even though I'm innocent I know that most of the people they kill are not, that's justice in my eyes"

Joe standing on the scaffold waiting to take the long drop, his last words...
/lots of incoherent screaming and struggling "I'm innocent!! I didn't do it I'm innocent I tell you!!" /lots more incoherent screaming and struggling.

I know which scenario I reckon would be the true one.
 
I am completely against the death penalty.

1) I believe no-one has the right to take another person's life (other than to protect another life \ lives).

2) No matter the evidence, you can never be 100% sure you have the right person. If you sentence to life for murder, and 10 years later you discover a mistake was made, the person, whilst no doubt mentally scarred, can at least be released. No option the other way.

The problem for me is that life sentences are not full life sentences, and they should be, no chance of parole.
 
Lynton said:
I thought "murder" involved a degree of planning and preperation. E.g. Intent.

I would think all 4 examples above could be proved to be Manslaughter.
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With reference to number 3 " Man shoots stranger who he finds in his garden" the killing of DC John Fordham in just such circumstances (although he was stabbed to death) was adjudged to be self defence....
 
There is no answer. That's the problem. There will always be people that don't want to behave properly regardless of what threats or consequences there are. You can never be certain someone put away will behave once released. You can only take an educated guess as to whether they will or won't.

Put ordinary people into certain situations and they'll become brutes just as they did during the Stanford Prison experiment.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
And if that one person happened to be you, or a member of your family?
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well if it happened to me then I'd be dead so I wouldn't be able to have an opinion.

If it happened to one of my family I would be mortified.

But ............

If someone murdered my family and then was free to walk the earth after 15 years in chokey I wouldn't be able to handle that either.

So I'd rather take my chances that I have faith in the legal system to not find a member of my family guilty of murder when they weren't
 
Steep said:
Two scenarios :-

Joe standing on the scaffold waiting to take the long drop, his last words...
"It's ok mum, it's ok dad, I don't mind being killed here today, even though I'm innocent I know that most of the people they kill are not, that's justice in my eyes"

Joe standing on the scaffold waiting to take the long drop, his last words...
/lots of incoherent screaming and struggling "I'm innocent!! I didn't do it I'm innocent I tell you!!" /lots more incoherent screaming and struggling.

I know which scenario I reckon would be the true one.
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You missed out scenario three - Joe standing on the scaffolding, searching desperately for the RTM button :lol:
 
joescrivens said:
no at some point there has to be collateral damage.

If 3000 pedophiles and murderers were killed and 1 of them was innocent, i'd say that was justifiable collateral damage.

It's why I could only ever be a prosecution lawer and not defence. I'd much rather put innocent people in jail than let guilty people get off scot free.
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I'd say human life is the most precious thing any of us have so could not disagree more.

What is the lowest ratio you would go to? 50/1 300/1 1000/1?
 
joescrivens said:
If someone murdered my family and then was free to walk the earth after 15 years in chokey I wouldn't be able to handle that either.
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but that is the point, if they were jailed for life and that meant life that would not be an issue
 
gramps said:
No it isn't, there is a clear option to say that you do not agree!
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But I don't disagree on moral grounds, I believe that execution would be a viable deterrent but there must be absolutely zero chance of a mistake being made. As I said earlier, there's nothing you can do for a corpse that would make it feel better about being dead.
So execution is simply not a viable option.
 
When has death ever been a deterant to anyone? If it was wars would never have been faught. Even if the punishment for murder was torture for you and all of the convicted fellons family you would still get murders taking the chance they will never get caught. In all the species that walk the earth only two have ever been found to kill for pleasure. Humans being the first. So using the death penalty as a way to cut murder wont work.
 
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