Is it time for the death penalty?

Should the death penalty be returned for murder?

  • Yes I believe in the death penalty for any murder.

    Votes: 58 42.0%

  • I am morally against the taking of life even for murder.

    Votes: 71 51.4%

  • I agree that it should be available for the murder of police etc.

    Votes: 9 6.5%
  • Total voters
    138
  • Poll closed .
gramps

gramps

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So another police officer has been shot dead (See BBC News Report Here) and the perpetrator appears to be known.

Do you think that the death penalty should be returned for murder?
Should it be just for the murder of the likes of police, prison officers or should it be for any murder.
 
gramps said:
So another police officer has been shot dead (See BBC News Report Here) and the perpetrator appears to be known.

Do you think that the death penalty should be returned for murder?
Should it be just for the murder of the likes of police, prison officers or should it be for any murder.
Click to expand...

Controversial Gramps! I always worry about when the courts get it wrong and the wrong person is executed. It has happened!
 
Maybe I should have added a 4th option of only where there is independent eye-witness evidence (as seems could be the case with this latest murder) but I can't edit the poll.
 
Jayst84 said:
Somebody's been killed, is it time to kill more people? No, no it isn't. But what if they killed someone who works for these arbitrary government or private sector companies? No, killing people is bad. ;)
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No, somebody has been murdered.
 
gramps said:
So another police officer has been shot dead (See BBC News Report Here) and the perpetrator appears to be known.

Do you think that the death penalty should be returned for murder?
Should it be just for the murder of the likes of police, prison officers or should it be for any murder.
Click to expand...

I would question why you think the lives of police or prison officers are worth more than anyone else's.

I do think it should come back, but not for eye witness testimony, it is notoriously poor, but in conjunction with clear forensics evidence.

Crimes are judged on "beyond reasonable doubt" - to bring back the death penalty there needs to be a higher level of certainty, maybe "beyond any doubt at all"
 
I don't have a problem with capital punishment. Where do you draw the line though?

I don't like the 'police and prison officers' argument. At the end of the day it should be any human life.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
I would question why you think the lives of police or prison officers are worth more than anyone else's.
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I merely ask a question that has been asked before, I don't judge any life above another.

Uneducated_Rick said:
I do think it should come back, but not for eye witness testimony, it is notoriously poor, but in conjunction with clear forensics evidence.
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"Clear forensic evidence" has been wrong before ... or misused!


Uneducated_Rick said:
Crimes are judged on "beyond reasonable doubt" - to bring back the death penalty there needs to be a higher level of certainty, maybe "beyond any doubt at all"
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Good point.
 
Emphatically not. Ask Derek Bentley - oh, that's right, you can't.
 
tiler65 said:
I don't have a problem with capital punishment. Where do you draw the line though?

I don't like the 'police and prison officers' argument. At the end of the day it should be any human life.
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Only because it's a line been drawn when discussed in Parliament etc before, I agree any human life is equally valid but some have taken the stand that the death of a law enforcement person represents more.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
No its a ridiculous idea. A better idea is to lead by good example not vengeance.
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Do you think that has worked though?
Has murder declined since the death penalty was abolished?
 
gramps said:
So another police officer has been shot dead (See BBC News Report Here) and the perpetrator appears to be known.

Do you think that the death penalty should be returned for murder?
Should it be just for the murder of the likes of police, prison officers or should it be for any murder.
Click to expand...

no never ever. We should introduce the American sentencing of 200-300 years or some other method of ensuring life means life in prison without possibility of parole.

There are no degrees of guilt, you're either guilty and you're punished or you're not guilty and you're not punished. You can't add degrees of guilt, such as an eye witness or not.

Atleast a prison sentence can be corrected if you find, however unlikely it may be, a wrong decision was made. A death sentence can't.
 
gramps said:
Only because it's a line been drawn when discussed in Parliament etc before, I agree any human life is equally valid but some have taken the stand that the death of a law enforcement person represents more.
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..or the death of another faith, or colour, sexuality ... its no different to any other hate crime.
 
It must be cheaper to have capital punishment than keep someone locked up for years on end.

The only way it could become dearer is the ludicrous amount of money charged by appeal courts and their briefs. (My cynical head on)

Why shouldn't there be an ultimate deterrent for committing murder?
 
tiler65 said:
It must be cheaper to have capital punishment than keep someone locked up for years on end.

The only way it could become dearer is the ludicrous amount of money charged by appeal courts and their briefs. (My cynical head on)

Why shouldn't there be an ultimate deterrent for committing murder?
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Because whether someone lives or dies shouldn't be decided based on money. And because the death penalty does not work as a deterrent, violent crime rates are usually disproportionately high in States that practice capital punishment.
 
Don't vote for capital punishment unless you're prepared to carry out the killing.:nono: I've also changed my mind on this. I now think it's just plain wrong to kill another human being but I guess I could change my mind again. What does that say?:shake::thinking:
 
tiler65 said:
It must be cheaper to have capital punishment than keep someone locked up for years on end.

The only way it could become dearer is the ludicrous amount of money charged by appeal courts and their briefs. (My cynical head on)

Why shouldn't there be an ultimate deterrent for committing murder?
Click to expand...


A life shouldn't be determined really by cost, and the cost of the legal system isn't really and excuse to execute anyone. But in the US it costs alot more to execute then to keep in prison, and thats excluding legal costs.I think about 48% more

But life meaning life would be very good. After all Execution turns the state into a murderer, life in prison turns the state into gay dungeon master. Would you rather be executed or spend the rest of your life in a gay dungeon?
 
Jayst84 said:
Because whether someone lives or dies shouldn't be decided based on money. And because the death penalty does not work as a deterrent, violent crime rates are usually disproportionately high in States that practice capital punishment.
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But incarceration isn't a deterrent either so where does that leave us?
 
I don't think it will have cost the Iraqi government 48% more to try, convict and kill Saddam than keep him locked up for another 5 to 10 years (life expectancy guess).

(Saddam case used as an example like you used the states as an example)
 
Doog said:
Don't vote for capital punishment unless you're prepared to carry out the killing.:nono: I've also changed my mind on this. I now think it's just plain wrong to kill another human being but I guess I could change my mind again. What does that say?:shake::thinking:
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Your human and getting it right its not always an easy choice. :shrug:
 
boyfalldown said:
Equally has it decreased in those countries that regularly carry it out?
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Defining 'murder' can be tricky:

1/ Man shoots stranger in the street
2/ Man shoots stranger who is attacking someone in the street
3/ Man shoots stranger who he finds in his garden
4/ Wife shoots husband she finds abusing child

Which of those are murder? Which of those are not murder?

Or is the right answer in each instance "it depends"? And if a jury condemns a person who is hanged but subsequently found to be wholly innocent, will those responsible for the conviction and execution be guilty of murder?
 
jon ryan said:
Defining 'murder' can be tricky:

1/ Man shoots stranger in the street
2/ Man shoots stranger who is attacking someone in the street
3/ Man shoots stranger who he finds in his garden
4/ Wife shoots husband she finds abusing child

Which of those are murder? Which of those are not murder?

Or is the right answer in each instance "it depends"? And if a jury condemns a person who is hanged but subsequently found to be wholly innocent, will those responsible for the conviction and execution be guilty of murder?
Click to expand...

I thought "murder" involved a degree of planning and preperation. E.g. Intent.

I would think all 4 examples above could be proved to be Manslaughter.
 
jon ryan said:
Defining 'murder' can be tricky:

1/ Man shoots stranger in the street
2/ Man shoots stranger who is attacking someone in the street
3/ Man shoots stranger who he finds in his garden
4/ Wife shoots husband she finds abusing child

Which of those are murder? Which of those are not murder?

Or is the right answer in each instance "it depends"? And if a jury condemns a person who is hanged but subsequently found to be wholly innocent, will those responsible for the conviction and execution be guilty of murder?
Click to expand...

you're complicating a very simple question unnecessarily. I'll ask it in another way then.

Do those countries which have the death penalty have a lower rate for murder convictions then those that don't?
 
The poll is flawed and biased towards a 'yes' answer.

It needs another option - "No because too often in the past an executed person has been later found to be innocent" You can't apologise and make amends to a corpse.
 
If the sentence for a crime matched the crime itself that might help. As it stands the maximum life penalty for murder is set at 25yrs Most inmates dont do half of that. Now to me life should mean life. You stay inside until you die. The death sentance to me is an easy way out for the convict. once your dead your dead thats it end of story i would prefer to have them suffer for the rest of their lives just like the victim and the family of the crime must suffer.
 
No. A civilised society does not tell people killing is so wrong you kill someone for doing it! It's less of a punishment to give them an exit than it is to keep them in prison forever with no chance of parole so they can spend time thinking about how they got there.

I also wouldn't assume that anyone committing a crime actually thinks about consequences or getting caught. This is why it generally isn't a deterrent. Putting people in prison stops them doing it again. Some learn and don't do it again when they're let out but others don't.

I think a lot of people don't commit crime because they know it is wrong not because they think about being caught and punished for it.

Look at Brady. He wants to die and it's our job not to let the evil little scumbag die until he's said where the rest of the children are buried. That's the reason right there. He hates being alive. Taking someone's life and having them live it in a way they don't want is much better as a punishment.
 
boyfalldown said:
you're complicating a very simple question unnecessarily. I'll ask it in another way then.

Do those countries which have the death penalty have a lower rate for murder convictions then those that don't?
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It's the number of murders, not convictions, that are the crux of any argument, surely?
 
I'd like to see prison actually become a deterrent by actually being a punishment. No wages, no perks, no rights. Intensive labor. Bring back the chain gangs. Might actually stop people wanting to go to prison.

A comment on the poll too...why should a policeman getting murdered carry a higher sentence than an innocent child getting murdered on the way home from the shops?
 
antihero said:
I'd like to see prison actually become a deterrent by actually being a punishment. No wages, no perks, no rights. Intensive labor. Bring back the chain gangs. Might actually stop people wanting to go to prison.
Click to expand...

:Plusone:
 
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