Is it considered cheating...

i would say, unless you are using film, and applying physical techniques to said film, you are never actually processing it. Unless of course you actually DID write PP.

But then the good thing is, you as an observer will never know so at to pour critical scorn on the result.
 
Don't point that moot at me Moriarty.

(Curses, it was loaded)
 
I've seen a number of Urban Landscapes recently that have been played with, some well, others not so well.

I've no way of knowing whether the effects chosen were part of the equipements pre-sets or were hand crafted by the photographer though.

How would you tell?
 
petemc said:
Difference is that you are using it, as I've explained. You're using the tools to perform a certain job. You're not just standing there, selecting a style off the shelf and then applying it. You use the camera creatively. Adjust the settings, apply a filter in a certain way and then take the photo when ready. You then adjust the levels, curves, contrast, colours in Photoshop as you see fit. They're all your own edits using the tools. The difference is that using someone elses action is simply pushing "Play" and your image is now how they wanted it. You might like it but its not the same because you haven't edited it. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this :) You did not process the photo. Thats all I'm saying really. Nothing to do with whether it was a preset, action, guy across the road. You took the photo, its yours, but you didn't process it.
Click to expand...


Yes but if you apply ANY effect in Photoshop you are doing that...You can aplpy a sepia tint but YOU are not doing it...the software/developer is, in effect, doing it.
 
gazzauk said:
Yes but if you apply ANY effect in Photoshop you are doing that...You can aplpy a sepia tint but YOU are not doing it...the software/developer is, in effect, doing it.
Click to expand...

You have full control over the sepia toning process so you decide how it looks. You probably don't have any control over the actions process so the creator decided how it looks. Are we any closer yet? :)
 
I think not Pete..........:lol:
 
Again, I CLEARLY understand what you are saying, I simply dont agree. A filter is a tool. A preset is a tool. An action is a tool. All with varying degrees of control. But you are deciding how the photo will look simply by using the action.

Now, like i say, we shall agree to diagree.
 
But the action more than likely has no control. Its either off or on. The level of control you have is whether to apply it or not. All the actions by top companies like Totally Rad are simply *wham* applied. No control over the tonality of the image, you just have to hope that what they do to your image works. You can't say "OOoh a little too much, knock it back -10". If it works it works. By relying on these actions you won't develop the ability to do it yourself and have the ability to adjust it by -10 if you feel its necesary.
 
Ta
 
petemc said:
But the action more than likely has no control. Its either off or on. The level of control you have is whether to apply it or not. All the actions by top companies like Totally Rad are simply *wham* applied. No control over the tonality of the image, you just have to hope that what they do to your image works. You can't say "OOoh a little too much, knock it back -10". If it works it works. By relying on these actions you won't develop the ability to do it yourself and have the ability to adjust it by -10 if you feel its necesary.
Click to expand...

No-one has mention 'relying' on them....
 
You gave up too easily IMO.
 
petemc said:
But the action more than likely has no control. Its either off or on. The level of control you have is whether to apply it or not. All the actions by top companies like Totally Rad are simply *wham* applied. No control over the tonality of the image, you just have to hope that what they do to your image works. You can't say "OOoh a little too much, knock it back -10". If it works it works. By relying on these actions you won't develop the ability to do it yourself and have the ability to adjust it by -10 if you feel its necesary.
Click to expand...

Wrong Wrong Wrong!!
Most of the totally rad actions apply several layers some ajustment layers, some at different blend modes, and some with layer masks giving the photographer tons of options for customising their images. Hardly on or off!
Wayne
 
Pete - you wanna come down the pub for a cocktail? They do them ready mixed in a bottle but I usually get them to make mine from scratch so I can choose how much vodka goes in - I like the taste better with a little extra vodka. Some folks are happy with the ready mix but they might not know what they're missing if they never bother to mix their own.
 
swanseamale47 said:
Wrong Wrong Wrong!!
Most of the totally rad actions apply several layers some ajustment layers, some at different blend modes, and some with layer masks giving the photographer tons of options for customising their images. Hardly on or off!
Wayne
Click to expand...

Right right right, because you said most which means I was right. :razz: I have them. I just ran "Old skool" and I got 0 layers to adjust. I had no control over the lens blur, vignette, sepia toning, contrast or levels it applied. So its pretty much on and off.

AndyB said:
Pete - you wanna come down the pub for a cocktail? They do them ready mixed in a bottle but I usually get them to make mine from scratch so I can choose how much vodka goes in - I like the taste better with a little extra vodka. Some folks are happy with the ready mix but they might not know what they're missing if they never bother to mix their own.
Click to expand...

Roh ro an analogy ;) Generally you don't go down the pub to buy a handmade cocktail to post on a forum for critique though :p
 
Its called artistic license Pete :-)
 
You said "All the actions by top companies like Totally Rad are simply *wham* applied." Check them out your wrong!
 
hmmm check them out. I may just travel back in time and make a post about old skool, the one I tried. Ok so maybe not all of them ever. You want to discuss actions or my words?
 
swanseamale47 said:
You said "All the actions by top companies like Totally Rad are simply *wham* applied." Check them out your wrong!
Click to expand...

If you have to drop into semantics rather than discuss the issue then you've lost.


I agree entirely with Pete. If you view photography as an artistic endeavour then you should be making the choices about how you process your images.

As soon as you start to apply a fixed style then you are abdicating responsibility for the look of your images. Sure there are a variety of tools. But it is how you use the tools that makes the difference. As soon as you hand those tools to someone else then it becomes someone elses work.

I'm sure that lots of people are happy with that compromise (you take the shot, company xyz ltd does the processing), I wouldn't be.

Hell, why bother taking your own picture - theres bound to be something on flickr that is almost what you like. Especially if you (or abc inc) process it.
 
who? said:
As soon as you start to apply a fixed style then you are abdicating responsibility for the look of your images. Sure there are a variety of tools. But it is how you use the tools that makes the difference. As soon as you hand those tools to someone else then it becomes someone elses work.
Click to expand...

Every shot you take is shaped by someone else, the choices you make are guided by images you've already seen, a fixed style is not limited to an action or keyboards/software.

I'm gonna copyright my hanging upside down from a clothes airer pose.......and.....smoke art, comic strip hdr and drips, yes drips of any kind are mine now so think on...:nono:
I shot it, you copied my idea, therefore you'll all be hearing from my solicitor in due course.

:lol:

Seriously though, I think this action thing is being take too seriously, some peeps are putting far too much value on it.
An action is not worth any more than a pose, an arrangement, a look, style or anything else.
If you frown upon the use of an action created by somebody else, then you must do the same for all other ways of being creative that have already been shot by somebody else, which includes pretty much everything....ever.
You can't copyright an action, just like you can't copyright a pose or a scene that you alone constructed.
There is, no difference imo..
The smoke screen side issue regarding what you should or should not be doing for yourself, is just that, a side issue related to finding your own way, it could just as easily apply to hardware, what you should be doing is shooting an all manual camera and a lightmeter.
Ain't nobody gonna swallow that, its about as relevant as using your own action for personal development.
 
"Right right right, because you said most which means I was right."
You started the semantics not me.
As this has moved off the original topic I see no point in following it any more. Wayne :thumbsdown:
 
I'm of the opinion that using actions to process your pictures is effectively not your work at the end of the day, so whatever your posting online/selling to clients/hanging on your wall is only half your work.

Processing has always been a big part of photography whether film or digital and really I don't see the point if 'your style' actually isn't that at all, it's someone elses that you've downloaded and applied to your pictures.

You wouldn't consider a picture mine if I downloaded a raw straight from camera photograph and only did half the job by processing it myself would you? So why a difference for the other way round?

You're only doing half the job, so the final product is only half yours IMO.
 
I guess this is a very tricky question. So, using an action that has been written by someone else takes away your input and means the end result is not entirely yours.

I think in the digital world we are at the mercy of other people's interpretation of how things should look from the moment we press the shutter button. I didn't write the program with all its fancy algorithms that interpret the light on my sensor.

When I open it up on the computer, the first job is to convert it from RAW. I didn't write that program either. Then I move into Photoshop, where I use a lot of tools devised by someone else. Certainly, I decide how the use them, but the effect is pre-determined.

Whatever I do, someone else is bound to have done it before, so I don't mind borrowing their work and knowledge, just so long as I can alter the final result to interpret things as I see them.

The same applies to film really. If someone wants glowing landscapes, they'll choose Velvia, which someone else has made for them.
 
i have an opinion

if you take a photo you are using a tool to take that photo

if you then 'press print' then you will be printing a photo that is likely not sharp(if its out of a dslr) and needs a bit of tinkering to get it right for printing

if you choose to use an action, you are applying another tool to take your shot toward your 'vision' of what you want. Its not cheating, its a step on the path to getting the shot you want.

If you want straight photos, get a polaroid.
 
Has this thread not gone to the land of fluffy sheep and cuddly foxes yet?..................:)
 
I think we're going round in circles and getting far too abstract. You didn't build the camera, build the computer, write the software or even create the sun that created the colours in the sunset. Its silly to go that far. It should be obvious that its the elements that you can control that are in debate. The choices you make. Its what this forum is all about. The composition, use of light, depth of field, models pose and ultimately the processing of the image. Elements you control. When you apply an action by somebody else that doesn't have any element of control it takes something away from your own work. You didn't do the processing, someone else did. All you did was ask them to do it to your photo.

We spend our time trying to learn how to properly use the aperture mode instead of auto. How to compose and use depth of field. When to shoot a landscape and how to take a portrait. Why skip out at the last hurdle just because you can?
 
matty said:
if you choose to use an action, you are applying another tool to take your shot toward your 'vision' of what you want. Its not cheating, its a step on the path to getting the shot you want.
Click to expand...

This is where I disagree, you're not applying a tool. You're just pasting someone elses application of a tool onto your picture and that is where the difference lies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top