Is it considered cheating...

B

Betty

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No
... using downloaded actions on your work? :(
 
No.
 
I'd say no, you took the orgional shot right? Its the shot that counts surely.

Plus, based on that, if the answer was yes, it would be cheating using a step by step tutorial that tells you what to do. The only difference is ones written and you do all the clicking yourself....

That said, I wouldn't know how to use actions, or even if PSE 6 supports so maybe I'm not qualified to comment! :shrug:
 
Nah, an action is just an automated way of using the tools available to you? So I wouldn't class it as cheating :)
 
Actions that work in photoshop, downloaded via the web.

Here for example.........

http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm

Some kind sole builds an action and puts it up on the web for all to use.
 
Thanks!
Yeah, now i know what they are, i totally agree with MikeeB
you could replicate it, its just a shortcut.
 
itsjosh said:
Thanks!
Yeah, now i know what they are, i totally agree with MikeeB
you could replicate it, its just a shortcut.
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That is my view on it........:thumbs:
 
Hells no.

I have a simple philosophy when it comes to anyone who thinks using any tool to do anything in a creative field is "cheating". This applies to people who take exception to sampling in music, to photoshopping in photography or whatever - that philosophy is...

<bender>Bite my shiny metal ass</bender>

That seems to work just peachy for me. The moment anyone's valuing the process over the product they've developed a serious priority malfunction, as far as I'm concerned.
 
I was once told that all digital pictures need some sort of processing.. was certainly true on my 10d .. I was also told that film users did PP in the darkroom so its nothing new.

Of course theres a thin line between a photo processed and a photo changed :)
 
No, especially if you get your hands on a black and white one that actually works!
 
Depends what you mean by actions. Actions to resize your photos and things like that are fine. However, after I played around with some actions that were downloadable styles I decided it was wrong. I'm essentially downloading a style and pasting it all over my photos. When people say "Great processing!" they're not complimenting me because I didn't do it. I used the Totally Rad action pack and I found that a lot of wedding/portrait photographers do. What seperates them from the next if they all use 5D's, prime lenses and exactly the same actions for processing? In the end I felt that its better to take the long road and learn more than to push a button for a style. You'll be a better photographer for it.
 
Oh I am still learning things Pete, but I find using certain actions in the meantime is bridging the gap :)

Would it still be cheating if I knew how an action was done, and I am simply using it as a means of saving time?
 
No Betty, it's not cheating, I've written some of my own as well as using some purchased ones.

The one thing I found using the purchased ones was that I could see what was being done and I can learn from that.
 
Not cheating at all, and if anyone knows an action that knows which action will get the picture the way I want it to look I will download it straight away :lol:
 
I wouldn't say so. But I feel that its better to see a style and make your own way there. You'll create your own style on the way. Imagine if you could push a button and get the "Annie Lebowitz look" or the "Dave Hill style". You may have a great photo but is it really yours? Their look and style has been developed over years of playing around with photography.
 
petemc said:
I wouldn't say so. But I feel that its better to see a style and make your own way there. You'll create your own style on the way. Imagine if you could push a button and get the "Annie Lebowitz look" or the "Dave Hill style". You may have a great photo but is it really yours? Their look and style has been developed over years of playing around with photography.
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Indeed, your right, it is far more beneficial to nuture your own style, that's if the said actions were actually causing you to stop progressing and becoming crutch like.
I do think that actions will never identically replicate a style though, layer compositing and the like requires too much individual attention and decision making.
The Andrzej Dragan action is awful and is shameful to relate it to his work and the Dave Hill ones :gag: Nuclear Halo City!
 
Tbh, I wouldn't personally want to do it. What I have done is looked at actions and lightroom pre-sets to see how they have gotten a result, but I wouldn't want to use them on my images. As Pete said, any complement on my processing would make me feel like a fraud.
 
Foggy said:
Tbh, I wouldn't personally want to do it. What I have done is looked at actions and lightroom pre-sets to see how they have gotten a result, but I wouldn't want to use them on my images. As Pete said, any complement on my processing would make me feel like a fraud.
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Well, if one was plainly indulging in say, a batch process, of a few hundred images that require the same White balance, exposure adjustements and contrast etc then actions or 'sync settings' in LR is just being clever and saving time, but if your working on a master piece that has your heart and soul in it then it's suppose it's a little different.

Some images require individual attention and very select adjustments, it could be a combination of filters or layer blends for example, after all we can't run an action that involves layer masks can we? Layer masks need to be determined and selected by us really.
 
If you have developed the action/preset then thats fine. Its what you've made. The issue that I have is the use off the shelf styles over that of developing your own. The whole point of Lightroom is that you can load in 1000 images, set it to a preset on load and have a coffee while your entire shoot is developed to your liking. Nothing wrong with that if its your preset.
 
I have to aggree with Pete. If you are in a hurry to process something and a dowloaded action does the job it's ok. But what you should at least do is try and understand what the action is doing so you could do it yourself even if it take longer. Once you understand it then you can take control and become more creative.
 
petemc said:
Depends what you mean by actions. Actions to resize your photos and things like that are fine. However, after I played around with some actions that were downloadable styles I decided it was wrong. I'm essentially downloading a style and pasting it all over my photos. When people say "Great processing!" they're not complimenting me because I didn't do it. I used the Totally Rad action pack and I found that a lot of wedding/portrait photographers do. What seperates them from the next if they all use 5D's, prime lenses and exactly the same actions for processing? In the end I felt that its better to take the long road and learn more than to push a button for a style. You'll be a better photographer for it.
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One of the reasons wedding photographers tend to use actions like the totally rad actions is not to all look alike, it's to save time. When you have a 1000+ pics to process per wedding and maybe 3 weddings over a weekend time becomes a serious concern, if it's adding a popular effect then they may well look similar, but then a group shot looks pretty much like another group shot, does that mean we shouldn't do group shots because another tog does them? Wayne
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Well, if one was plainly indulging in say, a batch process, of a few hundred images that require the same White balance, exposure adjustements and contrast etc then actions or 'sync settings' in LR is just being clever and saving time, but if your working on a master piece that has your heart and soul in it then it's suppose it's a little different.
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I have no issues with preset and actions, as long as I was the one who created it. Its just saving me the donkey work. Also wouldnt have an issue using someone elses actions to generate borders and stuff.

Its just that I, personally, wouldnt want to apply a whole host of someones processing actions to my images.
 
swanseamale47 said:
One of the reasons wedding photographers tend to use actions like the totally rad actions is not to all look alike, it's to save time. When you have a 1000+ pics to process per wedding and maybe 3 weddings over a weekend time becomes a serious concern, if it's adding a popular effect then they may well look similar, but then a group shot looks pretty much like another group shot, does that mean we shouldn't do group shots because another tog does them? Wayne
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Probably best you read the thread before replying :)

petemc said:
If you have developed the action/preset then thats fine. Its what you've made. The issue that I have is the use off the shelf styles over that of developing your own. The whole point of Lightroom is that you can load in 1000 images, set it to a preset on load and have a coffee while your entire shoot is developed to your liking. Nothing wrong with that if its your preset.
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On this subject Pete - do you now of any other progs that will apply a pre-defined set of rules in bulk as Lightroom does?
 
Foggy said:
I have no issues with preset and actions, as long as I was the one who created it. Its just saving me the donkey work. Also wouldnt have an issue using someone elses actions to generate borders and stuff.

Its just that I, personally, wouldnt want to apply a whole host of someones processing actions to my images.
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I understand, agree and I'm exactly the same myself, I have actions and presets for the way I work, it's pretty systematic and straight forward set ups in photoshop and then my preffered camera profiles in LR and that's it really.

Bottom line is, the lighting I've chosen determines what kind of post production goes on and in what volume.
As far as I'm concerned it's impossibe to make an action for the undetermined and it's far more beneficial to play things as you see them. Styles like Annie Leibowitz's and Dave Hills are all about the lighting, an action can't do a good job of changing or modifying that and never will.

Pete's right, it's much better to get creative from off your own back.
 
Betty said:
Because, essentially, some would say, that someone else is doing all the work for me.
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But you could say that about anything. Where does it end?...You dont have a dark room and have your pics printed by a commercial developer?

No-one would say that's cheating. Nah, you're definitiely not cheating.
 
Your photos should look identical on a print as on a screen. Its the image that is in question not the media.
 
I think it's cheating but it wont stop people doing it! I can live with that !
I've learnt more and got more satisfaction by making my own actions. I'm not a pro so I don't have to have top of the range prints, but my simple actions are quite effective ( brag brag !! ).
I think it's part of the learning process and very satisfying when you get there.

Keith.
 
No it's not cheating.

What about using Levels, is that cheating? How about the rotate feature? Is that cheating?
You're not doing it yourself...Photoshop is....and did you write Photoshop? No...then you're letting someone else do the work for you ;)
 
Making actions is hard.. i just tried to create one to make my border.. not sure if you can do it *** lol.
 
I don't see how using an action that someone else wrote is cheating, I use filters that someone else built all the time..:lol:
My take on it is a completely different angle, it involves what was in the frame in real life, and what is eventually produced and supplied as a "photograph", tools don't come in to it, its the end result that matters.
No one would question the origins of a particular action you used, unless your processing is ridiculous enough to resemble Dave Hills digital art....and even then, who cares ? , I don't, I couldn't care less about Dave Hill, or anything that looks like his, his work isn't very interesting.
 
Theres a difference between a filter and a downloadable style. You apply the filter how you see. Presets can be a complete style. Grainy high contrast b&w, whumpf. Job done. You didn't apply it how you wanted. Someone else did. The end result does matter but if you don't know how to get there then you'll never progress as a photographer. You'll be that guy who knows how to push "Run action." You won't have your own style. You won't stand out in a crowd. Its not really all your work. Its a bit of yours and someone elses. IMHO My photography needs to be as much mine as I can make it. Obviously I'm not going to write my own copy of Photoshop but I'm going to apply their tools as I see fit to get the end result. Its like a carpenter going to MFI for a chair and then saying "Well I put it where I wanted in the room"
 
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