Is Apple heading for problems....

I'm not sure Steve Jobs ruined the company with his return, he saved it. Apple at the time were having major problems, especially when they tried the Microsoft model and allowed Apple clones to be built, only licensing the software. The share price was giong down rapidly.

Don't forget Microsoft bailed Apple out with a major shares purchase. Mind you that may have been down to them not wanting to be the only OS supplier around with the Anti Trust investigators breathing down their neck

When Jobs came back he introduced the iMac. Different coloured shells and you could see the innards. It did become the trendy item to have. I remembered visiting one company that had one on the receptionist desk. Wasn't even plugged in.

Is Apple a lifestyle company, that's up for debate, my personal opinion is it isn't, it has an image which gels with a lot of people.You may disagree.

As far as OS 8 on the Mac, that was a very good and stable system.
 
trencheel303 said:
Do you actually have the technical knowledge to back this up or are you just spouting canned Apple fanboy gibberish?
Click to expand...

Ohh theres always one isn't there, when you cant win the argument on facts result in personal attacks. What exactly is it you are wanting me to prove, that in 11 years of osx there has never been a single virus live that can be transferred from mac to mac or that there are several thousand for windows :bang:.

Really you aught to post on DPReview or Mac Rumors there are plenty of your type there.

Steve
 
steve_v said:
Ohh theres always one isn't there, when you cant win the argument on facts result in personal attacks. What exactly is it you are wanting me to prove, that in 11 years of osx there has never been a single virus live that can be transferred from mac to mac or that there are several thousand for windows :bang:.

Really you aught to post on DPReview or Mac Rumors there are plenty of your type there.

Steve
Click to expand...

that's false logic though.

If I were to drive a Range Rover one day and then a Ford Fiesta the next, and for whatever reason crash ten ford Fiestas and not put a scratch on the Range Rover, I could then say "Range Rovers are safer than Ford Fiestas because I didn't crash in it". It's false, false, false logic, and I love how Apple fans hate it when I pull apart this theory time, and time, and time again. I really can't make this any simpler to understand.

There's a video somewhere on YouTube where a competition was run to see out of Windows and Mac (possibly Linux too) which could be hacked quickest. I do recall the guy broke into the Mac ridiculously quick. You can't really take that example as gospel though either because all things aren't equal.

I can only assume that you don't have a knowledge of security concepts and that you are indeed basing your assumptions on a false logic. What you're actually getting is security through obscurity, which is akin to turning all the lights out in a shooting range, hoping you don't get shot and then claiming that turning the lights out guarantees the bullets won't hit you.

I would also like to add that the networking tools you get on Windows for locking down its operation are pretty good, especially so when you compare them to Apple's non existant tools for such.
 
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Those are some bizarre and far reaching analogys. All the best analogys are.

Can you give me one involving a fish, a parrot and a pair of y fronts? :D
 
trencheel303 said:
that's false logic though.

If I were to drive a Range Rover one day and then a Ford Fiesta the next, and for whatever reason crash ten ford Fiestas and not put a scratch on the Range Rover, I could then say "Range Rovers are safer than Ford Fiestas because I didn't crash in it". It's false, false, false logic.
Click to expand...

Honestly, did you really say that. :lol:

trencheel303 said:
There's a video somewhere on YouTube where a competition was run to see out of Windows and Mac (possibly Linux too) which could be hacked quickest. I do recall the guy broke into the Mac ridiculously quick. You can't really take that example as gospel though either because all things aren't equal.
Click to expand...

I remember the competition, assuming its the same one, the mac was accessed via safari but it still required the user to input their details to allow the program to run, even then that was on the 2nd day when that type of hack was allowed. Any system can be breached if the user opens the door.


trencheel303 said:
I can only assume that you don't have a knowledge of security concepts and that you are indeed basing your assumptions on a false logic. What you're actually getting is security through obscurity, which is akin to turning all the lights out in a shooting range, hoping you don't get shot and then claiming that turning the lights out guarantees the bullets won't hit you.
Click to expand...

To some extent I can understand the argument of security through obscurity and how that might make some commercial hackers avoid the mac but credit card/bank details are credit card/bank details whether there from a Win pc or osx same as a malicious bot you think there is no use for hackers to remotely control macs? Also there are many hackers who are just plain malicious and would love the notoriety of being the first to infect the mac community

trencheel303 said:
I would also like to add that the networking tools you get on Windows for locking down its operation are pretty good, especially so when you compare them to Apple's non existant tools for such.
Click to expand...

And yet at the cost of repeating myself there has never been in 11 years a virus etc etc etc.

Steve
 
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joescrivens said:
Those are some bizarre and far reaching analogys. All the best analogys are.
Click to expand...

That's a very good way of admitting you have no comeback for what I'm saying.

This is boring - I'd have at least half expected a few more lines of wibble in reply to my post(s).
 
steve_v said:
I remember the competition, assuming its the same one, the mac was accessed via safari but it still required the user to input their details to allow the program to run, even then that was on the 2nd day when that type of hack was allowed. Any system can be breached if the user opens the door.
Click to expand...

Windows has done that for years. I suspect you are also not aware of the virtualisation that UAC in Windows 7 and Vista uses to safeguard system files... Google exists for a reason, I'm not going to spend the time explaining it.



To some extent I can understand the argument of security through obscurity and how that might make some commercial hackers avoid the mac but credit card/bank details are credit card/bank details whether there from a Win pc or osx same as a malicious bot you think there is no use for hackers to remotely control macs?
Click to expand...

Correct, as remote control is not how details are stolen. Programs are written to harvest the data, which are then let in by way of a trojan... really, do you think people spend time looking at a screen remotely and copying keyed in data...!



Also there are many hackers who are just plain malicious and would love the notoriety of being the first to infect the mac community
Click to expand...

Missed the report of a huge number of Macs being found part of a botnet then did you...



And yet at the cost of repeating myself there has never been in 11 years a virus etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

See above + google
 
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trencheel303 said:
That's a very good way of admitting you have no comeback for what I'm saying.

This is boring - I'd have at least half expected a few more lines of wibble in reply to my post(s).
Click to expand...

all that text and not one parrot or pair of underpants?
 
trencheel303 said:
Correct, as remote control is not how details are stolen. Programs are written to harvest the data, which are then let in by way of a trojan... really, do you think people spend time looking at a screen remotely and copying keyed in data...!
See above + google
Click to expand...

What was it in my post that made you think people spend time looking at a screen copying keyed in data. Your arguments get weaker by the post.



trencheel303 said:
Missed the report of a huge number of Macs being found part of a botnet then did you...
Click to expand...

The one from the Anti virus company you mean :lol: No I didnt miss that and yes I am aware that some macs have been found as part of a botnet I have never denied it, some people, whether mac or pc users are foolish enough to divuldge there security details at the slightest whim, you cant plan for that.

trencheel303 said:
See above + google
Click to expand...

Still no matter how I google it I cant find a single osx virus self replicating and transferable from mac to mac no matter what search terms I try. Unlike the large number of Win7 viruses that google does produce when searched, are you not seeing those links, perhaps it you who needs lessons in google :cuckoo:

Steve
 
All this talk of whether you can infect OSX or not is pretty immaterial.

The thing that worries me is someone stealing my bank/credit card details and that will be done through my browser. Not running anything at all means you are not checking the code you are running as Javascript (or anything else that the script kiddies want to run). It's not the OS that's vulnerable, but the browser....
 
I'm no security expert but I am just passing this on out of interest.

I've just listened to an edition of "For Mac Eyes Only" in which the security aspect of Macs, including the Flashback Trojan was discussed

As part of this programe a number of AV manufacturers sites were visited to see if they could gain some insight to the actual threat. From memory the biggest number they found was just over 110 . There are some caveats to this number as some refer to older Mac models, some only "proof of concept" etc.

They did a similar survey using the same sites for Windows.. The figure was an astounding 7,000,000 + .

Now I don't think this is a case for complacency by the Mac community as it only takes 1 to get onto you computer for you to have a problem. There was a lot of good common sense in this program and simple steps can keep you Mac safe

If you want to listen to the Pod cast here's a link

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/a/d/8/ad8d15...1ce3dae902ea1d01cb8331d7c15eb81b&c_id=4455341
 
Chappers said:
I'm no security expert but I am just passing this on out of interest.

I've just listened to an edition of "For Mac Eyes Only" in which the security aspect of Macs, including the Flashback Trojan was discussed

As part of this programe a number of AV manufacturers sites were visited to see if they could gain some insight to the actual threat. From memory the biggest number they found was just over 110 . There are some caveats to this number as some refer to older Mac models, some only "proof of concept" etc.

They did a similar survey using the same sites for Windows.. The figure was an astounding 7,000,000 + .

Now I don't think this is a case for complacency by the Mac community as it only takes 1 to get onto you computer for you to have a problem. There was a lot of good common sense in this program and simple steps can keep you Mac safe

If you want to listen to the Pod cast here's a link

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/a/d/8/ad8d15...1ce3dae902ea1d01cb8331d7c15eb81b&c_id=4455341
Click to expand...

at least most of the windows ones will get stopped by a decent AV package. whereas an average mac user wont be running an AV. that could be another reason (along with market share) that we're starting to see more mac malware, its an more of an undefended door.

arad85 said:
All this talk of whether you can infect OSX or not is pretty immaterial.

The thing that worries me is someone stealing my bank/credit card details and that will be done through my browser. Not running anything at all means you are not checking the code you are running as Javascript (or anything else that the script kiddies want to run). It's not the OS that's vulnerable, but the browser....
Click to expand...

indeedio, java seems to be the biggest issue. i see theres something about another java exploit for OSX and MS office starting to come to light.
 
it always strikes me as odd that PC users spend much of their time telling everyone how macs are as bad (as many and as vulnerable to viruses, as bad as a PC at blah blah blah......, windows has done it for years etc etc)

I guess if you have to protest so loudly..............
 
boyfalldown said:
it always strikes me as odd that PC users spend much of their time telling everyone how macs are as bad (as many and as vulnerable to viruses, as bad as a PC at blah blah blah......, windows has done it for years etc etc)

I guess if you have to protest so loudly..............
Click to expand...

whos protesting? its just a fact that a mac as a computer with software (which inheritly will have back doors and holes) on which is connected to the internet is a target to malicious software like anything else.
 
neil_g said:
whos protesting? its just a fact that a mac as a computer with software (which inheritly will have back doors and holes) on which is connected to the internet is a target to malicious software like anything else.
Click to expand...

:) I'm not disagreeing with you its a computer with software etc, but re-reading the thread shows who's protesting :) and its never the mac users. I just think its interesting that every argument from the PC users is always 'Mac is as bad because............' rather then 'PC is better because..............'. A light hearted observation, thats all
 
boyfalldown said:
and its never the mac users.
Click to expand...

theyre too busy having their fingers in ears shouting "lalalalalalalala" :D

I just think its interesting that every argument from the PC users is always 'Mac is as bad because............' rather then 'PC is better because..............'. A light hearted observation, thats all
Click to expand...

one isnt better than the other, one just has more malicious software created over the years of high market share. both have issues and both have anti-malware software available, you pays your money you takes your chances :)
 
joescrivens said:
very true ... apart from the mac, which is better than the windows. :D:D:D
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Tsk... :nono: the Mac is a piece of hardware, windows is software. You should be saying the Mac is better than a PC or OSX is better than Windows. I know these concepts are difficult for some Mac users ;) :nuts:, but it's important to get these things right :D

Unless what you really mean is that wearing a mac whilst outside and it is raining is better protection for you than a set of double glazed windows.... :p ;)
 
boyfalldown said:
but re-reading the thread shows who's protesting ... and its never the mac users.
Click to expand...

steve_v said:
Rubbish, the only reason Mac has been, supposedly immune is because its has a more robust operating system than any of the Win versions.
Click to expand...

Oh dear...



boyfalldown said:
every argument from the PC users is always 'Mac is as bad because............'
Click to expand...

trencheel303 said:
They were great in 80s and 90s, fantastic even, System 7.5 and early versions of OS 8 were probably one of the best operating systems to date in terms of innovation, and it's thanks to them that plug and play and ease of use in software became a mainstay.
Click to expand...

trencheel303 said:
The tension between Apple and Microsoft years ago was healthy and kept the market sweet,
Click to expand...

Whoops!

...And another...



boyfalldown said:
rather then 'PC is better because..............'.
Click to expand...

trencheel303 said:
I would also like to add that the networking tools you get on Windows for locking down its operation are pretty good,especially so when you compare them to Apple's non existant tools for such
Click to expand...

trencheel303 said:
Windows has done that for years. I suspect you are also not aware of the virtualisation that UAC in Windows 7 and Vista uses to safeguard system files...
Click to expand...

Oh-oh, really going downhill now!


And finally, just for fun:

steve_v said:
you think there is no use for hackers to remotely control macs?
Click to expand...
steve_v said:
What was it in my post that made you think people spend time looking at a screen copying keyed in data.
Click to expand...

:shrug:



...People, PLEASE! At least try to be consistent if you're going to construct an argument.

For what it's worth, I don't even care what platform people use, I just hate it when people spread misinformation.
 
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trencheel303 said:
Oh dear...

Whoops!

...And another...

Oh-oh, really going downhill now!

And finally, just for fun:

...People, PLEASE! At least try to be consistent if you're going to construct an argument.

For what it's worth, I don't even care what platform people use, I just hate it when people spread misinformation.
Click to expand...

So you missed light hearted from my post then :)
 
boyfalldown said:
So you missed light hearted from my post then :)
Click to expand...

Not at all Hugh, however it was still an observation no less, and I suspect you weren't expecting me to actually prove it wrong...

Also, if you hadn't said it first someone else would have, as they inevitably do. And when the time comes I'll get the quote button ready again :runaway:


joescrivens said:
I bow down to your superb multi quote skills!!! :D:D:lol::lol:
Click to expand...

;)
 
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Chappers said:
Is Apple a lifestyle company, that's up for debate, my personal opinion is it isn't, it has an image which gels with a lot of people.
Click to expand...

And that is the very definition of a lifestyle brand.......
 
Rather than heading from problems I think this year will see them launching something so massive, so different that we can't even imagine just what it will do and how it will change the TV market. I'm referring to the new Apple TV, or iTV or whatever it will end up being called.
They changed the personal music player market with the iPod.
They changed the mobile phone market with the iPhone.
They massively dominate the tablet market.
Let's see what this year brings before we right them off.
 
I think the tv will make or break them, it's a very niche market in my opinion and there are much better panels than the sharp the rumours are pointing too. At the end of the day it's going to be a sharp tv with built in appletv
 
neil_g said:
I think the tv will make or break them, it's a very niche market in my opinion and there are much better panels than the sharp the rumours are pointing too. At the end of the day it's going to be a sharp tv with built in appletv
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I wouldn't be so sure. If it's going to be a game changer it wouldn't be so obvious.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Rather than heading from problems I think this year will see them launching something so massive, so different that we can't even imagine just what it will do and how it will change the TV market. I'm referring to the new Apple TV, or iTV or whatever it will end up being called.
They changed the personal music player market with the iPod.
They changed the mobile phone market with the iPhone.
They massively dominate the tablet market.
Let's see what this year brings before we right them off.
Click to expand...
The areas where Apple have changed things are in the personal media space. The TV is a shared media device. The two markets are quite different and have very different needs. You also have to remember that you need content on TVs and that to deliver video content requires lots of bandwidth - something the telcos or broadcasters have, not Apple. Then you have to worry about DRM. If they do launch something, I'd expect it to be in conjunction with an existing service somewhere rather than a standalone product, but then it would be a box rather than TV....

I also think buying anything integrated with a panel is completely the wrong thing to do. Net standards are far too immature to be building the hardware into the set. Give it 3 years and you'll need another external box for 2015s latest and greatest....
 
Ricardodaforce said:
If it's going to be a game changer it wouldn't be so obvious.
Click to expand...
Lets hope they don't try gesture control via camera - I see that as a complete gimmick that won't work 100% of the time and will be unusable accordingly.
 
neil_g said:
I think the tv will make or break them, it's a very niche market in my opinion and there are much better panels than the sharp the rumours are pointing too. At the end of the day it's going to be a sharp tv with built in appletv
Click to expand...

make or break?

Doubt that. It will either be successful or not but if not it's not going to affect all the other products that have made them millions and will continue to do so with or without a TV.

Also as the worlds most successful company I would say they have already been "made"
 
neil_g said:
I think the tv will make or break them, it's a very niche market in my opinion and there are much better panels than the sharp the rumours are pointing too. At the end of the day it's going to be a sharp tv with built in appletv
Click to expand...

I don't think people will be buying an Apple TV because it's got the best screen.....and let's face it Fujitsu, Pioneer both failed to make that model work. The Apple TV product will be about delivering the "integrated home" in my opinion. When you look at what the major TV manufacturers currently offer the IPTV product/interface is utter garbage....if Apple can deliver a product that deliver seemless integration with iPhones/iPads and can deliver all the media they'll be onto a winner.

I think the big difference between Apple and say Microsft ten years ago is the power of the brand...even when Micrsoft was at it's height there was a huge amount of negativity towards it which isn't there with Apple. The power of their brand and their pricing power is incredible. It's amazing that many companies (including Apple competitors) use compatability with Apple products as a selling point i.e. BMW, Panasonic, Vodafone etc etc...that tells you how powerful the brand is. Their margins/pricing power in an industry where every competitor is suffering margin contraction/losses is also amazing. If they can translate that pricing power to a "big ticket" item like a TV it will be transformational for that sector. Panasonic struggle to make any money at all on TV's.....as do the retailers. A friend of mine is quite senior at one fo the major electronics retailers....they quite often make more money on an HDMI cable they sell with a TV than on the TV itself.
 
joescrivens said:
make or break?

Doubt that. It will either be successful or not but if not it's not going to affect all the other products that have made them millions and will continue to do so with or without a TV.

Also as the worlds most successful company I would say they have already been "made"
Click to expand...

okay maybe the wrong phrase, i think its a risky move though as like i said its still a very niche market.

Beardy said:
I don't think people will be buying an Apple TV because it's got the best screen.....and let's face it Fujitsu, Pioneer both failed to make that model work. The Apple TV product will be about delivering the "integrated home" in my opinion. When you look at what the major TV manufacturers currently offer the IPTV product/interface is utter garbage....if Apple can deliver a product that deliver seemless integration with iPhones/iPads and can deliver all the media they'll be onto a winner.
Click to expand...

pioneer failed because they were making the screens at a loss. fact was they had the best tv on the market at that time.

i cant see the tv interface being different to the appletv, in which case whats the point? like i say you may as well buy a better panel and an appletv (or alternative) for the same (rumoured) price.

A friend of mine is quite senior at one fo the major electronics retailers....they quite often make more money on an HDMI cable they sell with a TV than on the TV itself.
Click to expand...

give your friend a slap from me for misleading customers :D
 
neil_g said:
i cant see the tv interface being different to the appletv, in which case whats the point? like i say you may as well buy a better panel and an appletv (or alternative) for the same (rumoured) price.
Click to expand...

The point is you bundle it up and sell it in an Apple style TV in your living room and it becomes the must have TV for everyone who wants to impress their neighbours/friends. I've lost count of people saying you can buy a higher spec laptop/desktop cheaper than a MBP or iMac....doesn't stop people buying them.

Pioneer didn't make a loss making TV intentionally, they thought people would pay for the quality but they wouldn't....they made a TV that was too expensive to make and people wouldn't pay the price for the quality of screen.....so if Apple use a Sharp panel that 95% of the population think looks good they will be fine.
 
neil_g said:
i cant see the tv interface being different to the appletv, in which case whats the point? like i say you may as well buy a better panel and an appletv (or alternative) for the same (rumoured) price.
Click to expand...

yeah I don't know. I think it will be more than just a tv with built in AppleTV as we know it.

Since apple will have control of the hardware they'll be able to do more. Maybe it will have built in blu ray too, it will no doubt connect with the iphone, ipad, iMac, macbook etc wirelessly.

But it will have gestures surely, whether they be touch screen or camera tracking or voice activated maybe.

I would also imagine it will have an iSight camera for doing facetime and xbox kinect type games. It will probably also have a built in app store for tv apps that are motion activated and camera integral. stuff like that. Augmented reality will likely be present in some form

If it starts to have more of these features it could be a decent product
 
joescrivens said:
Maybe it will have built in blu ray too
Click to expand...

Doubtful - they want you to buy only via iTunes so they can rake off their 30%... they're not going to let you buy a bluray from Asda for a fiver less.
 
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