Is Apple heading for problems....

arad85

arad85

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No, not an Apple bashing thread but seen in the last 24 hours:

The first "proper" virus for Macs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17675314

Lawsuit against price fixing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17681137

Whether Apples stock price is sustainable given it makes up 4% of the S&P 500 index: http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9703000/9703690.stm

Couple that with the inevitable change (however slow) of the its values and direction after Jobs' death last year and I wonder if Apple are up for some troubled times ahead.

Not sure if this should be in Out of Focus - mods please move if so.
 
Can't speak for the virus but every company of that size has multiple lawsuits pending/in progress at one time, they all sue each other as a matter of course.
 
Steep said:
Can't speak for the virus but every company of that size has multiple lawsuits pending/in progress at one time, they all sue each other as a matter of course.
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No, I know, but they tend to be for patent infringements, this one is closer to a price fixing one...
 
Rapscallion said:
Never can predict the future, but my guess that Apple is at a "high point" currently. Can any technology firm stay on top for extended periods?
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No, but is Apple purely a technology company? I see it almost as much as a lifestyle company too. People are going to have to fall out of love with it before it is seen as anything bad.

Yes, you read the stock price correctly.
 
arad85 said:
Stop being smug Neil :p

The real question is whether any of the anti-virus software packages there are for the Mac would have picked it up anyway.... The anti-virus software is only as good as its database.
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sophos reckon theirs will (whether that was the case when flashback hit the net is another matter). shame we havent installed it on the macs yet.. :|
 
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arad85 said:
Stop being smug Neil :p

The real question is whether any of the anti-virus software packages there are for the Mac would have picked it up anyway.... The anti-virus software is only as good as its database.
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Why not, it was on the cards anyway, the only reason macs have been "immune" all this time is simply because nobody bothered to write any viruses/trojans for the platform, the user base was too small, compared to windows.
It's only in the last few years, with the transition to intel x86 and windows becoming ever more bloated that users seeked an alternative, aso with the iPhone / iPad being popular, Apple's user base grew, as a result virus writers/script kiddies have taken note and started to turn their attention to the mac platform.

:)
 
arad85 said:
No, but is Apple purely a technology company? I see it almost as much as a lifestyle company too. People are going to have to fall out of love with it before it is seen as anything bad.

Yes, you read the stock price correctly.
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No, it's a marketing powerhouse, software developer, and a Foxconn rebranding outfit.

For the record I'm a mac user, and quite frankly if it wasn't for Mac OS X, which is without doubt the best desktop implentation of UNIX period, I probably wouldn't touch them with a barge pole (he says writing this from his iPhone).

Ok, now let's talk about this piece of malware. It's not the first to attack OS X and it most certainly won't be the last. It exploits a vunerability in java (which is an Oracle product by the way), which by default is not installed in Lion. So anybody running a vanilla Lion system is already immune to this. However Apple does allow you install java on demand should a program require it (CS4 for example), but you need admin privileges to do so.

It's the admin privileges which are the problem as pretty much every mac user I've come across has just one account on their machine. Obviously if there's only one account it has admin privileges, and if you're always running as admin then you're playing a dangerous game as this is how things get installed without you always noticing. If you run a managed account for day to day stuff then if something is trying to do something it shouldn't then you'll almost always be asked to authenticate administrative access. This is the alarm that you should take notice of.

My biggest problem in this particular affair is not the malware, which is easy to check for and remove with a couple of minutes in the terminal, it's that after Oracle patched java to prevent this exploit, it then took six weeks for for Apple to issue the fix with not a word about the dangers in the meantime.
 
still more to come from apple I think. Cant speak about mac but at the moment I can't see them doing any wrong in the eyes of the general public even though they are far worse with control of the platforms and what you can do on them than Microsoft ever was. IOS is getting a little stale in my opinion.
Lots of law suites flying around at the moment eventually they will all probably end up cross patenting a lot of the tech for nothing it's about getting access to the core technology that makes a computing device possible without paying massive licensing deals. The more patents you own the more control you'll have of the industry when the dust settles.
I don't think it helps innovation when one company is so dominant same goes for google but I don't see Microsoft coming back in a big way they will just tread water.
 
Steep said:
Can't speak for the virus but every company of that size has multiple lawsuits pending/in progress at one time, they all sue each other as a matter of course.
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Except it's not another company suing them - it's the US Department of Justice. The EU is also investigating this and if charges are brought this could be very serious for Apple.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17681137

Alan
 
arad85 said:
No, not an Apple bashing thread but seen in the last 24 hours:

The first "proper" virus for Macs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17675314
Click to expand...

Except its not a virus, its a program that pretends to be something its not and can only be installed on your Mac if YOU install it. Anyway its old news, the Flash trojan was heavily reported last year and I now only install my Flash player at the Flash website and not when prompted.

Rob 80386 said:
Why not, it was on the cards anyway, the only reason macs have been "immune" all this time is simply because nobody bothered to write any viruses/trojans for the platform, the user base was too small, compared to windows.:)
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Rubbish, the only reason Mac has been, supposedly immune is because its has a more robust operating system than any of the Win versions, nothing at all to do with its low user base. Could you imagine the kudos for the first hacker to write a virus that could cause havoc to the mac community, he/she would be a legend.
 
microsoft got sued for all kinds by the EU..it wont finish the company, it might actually benefit them as if the price drops they might sell a few more units..
 
I have my sights set on the new MBP! They're definitely on a high at the moment though. They ain't staying there forever.
 
steve_v said:
Except its not a virus, its a program that pretends to be something its not and can only be installed on your Mac if YOU install it.
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Which is how most Windows viruses are installed these days.


steve_v said:
Rubbish, the only reason Mac has been, supposedly immune is because its has a more robust operating system than any of the Win versions, nothing at all to do with its low user base. Could you imagine the kudos for the first hacker to write a virus that could cause havoc to the mac community, he/she would be a legend.
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Unix/Linux viruses have been around for a decade or more (see: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linuxunix-viruses-and-worms-demand-special-attention/5054187 from 2003 for example - OS-X is based on FreeBSD). The point now is that viruses don't create havoc, they are used in botnets or to grab user data.

Viruses as destructive code is sooo last century. Data acquisition and control is where it's at these days.
 
arad85 said:
Which is how most Windows viruses are installed these days.
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Maybe, haven't been a window user since xp but I do know that my son who does run win 7 is currently having massive problems on his Alien Win machine but then again he is a teenager and is likely to visit the sites teenagers visit :)

I think that it is worth noting that in 11 years of OSX there has never been a single Mac virus in the wild ie a self replicating self installing program that can spread from mac to mac unlike the many thousands of Win viruses. I know I'm beginning to sound like a fanboi, I do apologise for that, I hate fanbois as much as the next man but the BBC story was basically misinformation and sourced from a Anti-Virus software producer, who have absolutely no agenda to push forward, obviously :lol:

Steve
 
steve_v said:
I know I'm beginning to sound like a fanboi, I do apologise for that, I hate fanbois as much as the next man but the BBC story was basically misinformation and sourced from a Anti-Virus software producer, who have absolutely no agenda to push forward, obviously :lol:
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The problem is that if people just see it as scaremongering, then OS-X will get targeted. Viruses are not good - period. 99.9% (yes, I know I made that statistic up on the spot but you get the point I'm trying to make) of modern viruses infect computers - whether Windows or *nix based - by the actions of the users and not by exploiting bugs in the OS.
 
1 - It's not a virus, it's a trojan

2 - The first virus' in the wild were for Macs, not Windows.
 
the trojan will come and go, as will others - fixes will be implemented

the stock price will have to fall a bit, then level out

the court case will be settled out of court if apple feel they are going to lose.

All in a day's work for the worlds most successful business. Mountains and molehills
 
Alanem said:
Except it's not another company suing them - it's the US Department of Justice. The EU is also investigating this and if charges are brought this could be very serious for Apple.
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Yes, I can see them getting fined several hundred million dollars - which will severely dent their petty cash.
 
Their stock price isn't at a high point yet, some analysts are even predicting it could hit $1,000 a share within the next few years, assuming they don't split the stock at some point.

They will launch a TV in the next 12 months and if that is even half as successful as the iPhone it will be another massive revenue stream for them. TV market is ripe for an Apple invasion right now, the average consumer on the street doesn't know what IPTV is and broadband speeds and coverage has finally got to a sufficient level to support it. There's a lot of different systems out there but Apple have the brand and iTunes which allow them to exploit it better than the others.

Just about every technology company out there is suing another and being sued themselves so I don't think there's too much too worry about on that score ..Apple have a large patent library themselves to bargain off with anyone that sues them.
 
Wedding-Photos said:
They will launch a TV in the next 12 months and if that is even half as successful as the iPhone it will be another massive revenue stream for them. TV market is ripe for an Apple invasion right now, the average consumer on the street doesn't know what IPTV is and broadband speeds and coverage has finally got to a sufficient level to support it. There's a lot of different systems out there but Apple have the brand and iTunes which allow them to exploit it better than the others.
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Interesting thought, but I don't think this will happen.

The suing is to do with anti-trust as opposed to patent issues.
 
arad85 said:
Interesting thought, but I don't think this will happen.

The suing is to do with anti-trust as opposed to patent issues.
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you don't think Apple will release a TV or you don't think the TV they release will be successful?
 
joescrivens said:
you don't think Apple will release a TV or you don't think the TV they release will be successful?
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I don't think they will release a TV (the TV is "just" the display adapter and they'd be far better served with a box such as AppleTV rather than having to worry about the screen as well) and if they did, I don't think it would be successful.

The people who will make IPTV workable and profitable are the broadcasters, ISPs and telcos. as it's their content and infrastructure that delivers it. That's why Sky and Virgin have in-house ISPs (so they cover broadcaster and ISP and have strong ties with rights holders). BT & TalkTalk are partnered with YouView (if that ever gets released) which comprises the main UK based FTA broadcasters. In the US it's cable companies with their own infrastructure like Virgin or DirecTV or Echostar as satellite providers. They'd be going up against competitors who have significantly more knowledge and certainly more infrastructure.

Of course, they could just buy someone to get their foot in the door. I could be wrong though ;)
 
joescrivens said:
you usually are :D
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Not always :p, and connected TV is my day job (I'm working on 3 IPTV boxes at the moment so if I am wrong.... :eek: )

To cover myself just in case - I don't own any hats :D
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I think they will, Apple are no longer a computer company, they are now a lifestyle brand and TV is just one area where the brand will fit.
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So should we expect Apple to buy Bose then?
 
hollis_f said:
Yes, I can see them getting fined several hundred million dollars - which will severely dent their petty cash.
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The Americans take price fixing and anti-trust activity very seriously. People have done jail time and companies broken up for it. Maybe Apple is above the law these days tough. :)

Alan
 
steve_v said:
Rubbish, the only reason Mac has been, supposedly immune is because its has a more robust operating system than any of the Win versions, nothing at all to do with its low user base.
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Do you actually have the technical knowledge to back this up or are you just spouting canned Apple fanboy gibberish?

Unless you actually know about the security model and how modern drive-by infections work then I'd be very careful.

As for Apple, they need a wakeup call. They were great in 80s and 90s, fantastic even, System 7.5 and early versions of OS 8 were probably one of the best operating systems to date in terms of innovation, and it's thanks to them that plug and play and ease of use in software became a mainstay.

Personally I think Apple were ruined when Steve Jobs came back and decided to turn one of the best computer companies in the world into a lifestyle company. I won't even start on what I think about modern Macs and the operating system that they run on.

The tension between Apple and Microsoft years ago was healthy and kept the market sweet, nowadays all Apple are doing is sue their way to success, I have no respect anymore for them. They probably wouldn't even have survived if it wasn't for Microsoft's bail-out either.
 
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trencheel303 said:
As for Apple, they need a wakeup call. They were great in 80s and 90s, fantastic even, System 7.5 and early versions of OS 8 were probably one of the best operating systems to date in terms of innovation, and it's thanks to them that plug and play and ease of use in software became a mainstay.

Personally I think Apple were ruined when Steve Jobs came back and decided to turn one of the best computer companies in the world into a lifestyle company. I won't even start on what I think about modern Macs and the operating system that they run on.
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I think the shareholders would probably disagree with you considering it was in the 2000's and 2010's that apple became the most successful company in the world.
 
joescrivens said:
I think the shareholders would probably disagree with you considering it was in the 2000's and 2010's that apple became the most successful company in the world.
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successful and great don't equal the same thing.

Sure, in a capitalist sense they are successful - hugely so. But that doesn't change the fact that they are making, in my opinion, mass produced cr@p that is sold on more of a lifestyle basis than a "this is a really great product" basis. They have sued their way into success and patented absolutely everything in their way - they've got there first and have now secured the market, and hence made lots of profit.

All they do is take hardware from different companies, mould it into their own shape, put their software on it that is actually mostly made from someone else's work (BSD), lock it on to the hardware and then patent the hell out of it. Somehow it's not that great in my eyes.
 
trencheel303 said:
successful and great don't equal the same thing.

Sure, in a capitalist sense they are successful - hugely so. But that doesn't change the fact that they are making, in my opinion, mass produced cr@p that is sold on more of a lifestyle basis than a "this is a really great product" basis. They have sued their way into success and patented absolutely everything in their way - they've got there first and have now secured the market, and hence made lots of profit.

All they do is take hardware from different companies, mould it into their own shape, put their software on it that is actually mostly made from someone else's work (BSD), lock it on to the hardware and then patent the hell out of it. Somehow it's not that great in my eyes.
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and yet their products are so damn awesome!!!
 
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