iPhone water damage(But Not)

GlasgowGunner

GlasgowGunner

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Ok here i go be warned im going mad about this.

Now i have an iPhone which i love and have never had a problem with but ten days ago my wife got her Brand new 16gb 3gs model from Orange and pays £45 a month for.

She switched her phone off on friday night for the first time from new and on saturday she switched the phone back on only to find it was straight back to the as new screen(Connect to iTunes to sync). She then done this but would not sync and kept asking for a passcode on the phone though you could not enter one with it being stuck on this screen.

Called Orange and they went through a few tests with me but nothing so i was put through to apple who talked me through how to restore the phone but this failed also, so off i went to my local Apple store in Glasgow.

When i got there the guy in the store ran the same tests but got the same results so he then took a look at the phone (Now this is how it happened) handed me it and said can't do anything about it your phone is water damaged, well i stood there in shock when i heard what he said i then asked how he knew this and told me there is water sensors in the phone and when it comes into contact with water these get tripped.

Now my wife is 110% sure it has never seen water any fluid for that matter which i will back as she treats it like a baby in it's small case and screen guard and to be honest it has hardly been out the house. I told this to the apple guy but he was not interested in the least and point blank wanted nothing to do with the phone but was willing to take £140 off us to replace the 10 day old phone.

While we where in the store the person to the left and right to us where in with the same thing, I have now searched this on the net and it is a massive problem with these phones.


I would like to hear from anybody who has had this problem also if there is anybody on here.

Thanks for reading....


P.S, The phone will not even turn on now.
 
maybe the little bits of paper are over sensitive and are changing colour with moisture etc
you can see the water sensor tabs if you look inside the headphone jack
if you have a poke around people try tippex or bleach before taking them to the apple store
i agree the whole thing sucks big time just the same as ps3's and x boxes that pack up after a couple of months
 
it strikes me that at this time of year, it would be very easy for a phone to appear to have 'water damage' simply from condensation, caused by bringing it in the house from being outside in freezing temps, even if its been inside a case, bag, pocket, etc. It also occurs to me that a phone of that kind of value should be somewhat more element proof than that.
However, if she got the phone through orange, I suggest a word with a customer service manager there might be your first port of call.
 
Well i am starting to think this as it has been real cold in glasgow the last week and full off snow, I now know a fair bit about the sensors as i have read enough about them. There is also 2 inside the phone but have no idea what they might be like on this phone.

I don't want to mess with the phone as i am trying to fight this one, it is unreal that they are getting away with this.
 
Yv said:
it strikes me that at this time of year, it would be very easy for a phone to appear to have 'water damage' simply from condensation, caused by bringing it in the house from being outside in freezing temps, even if its been inside a case, bag, pocket, etc. It also occurs to me that a phone of that kind of value should be somewhat more element proof than that.
However, if she got the phone through orange, I suggest a word with a customer service manager there might be your first port of call.
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Yes she has spoke to Orange but they don't take anything to do with the iPhone apart from putting them on the market with there own product in toe, they will just send you to Apple.

And yes i agree with what you say about the time of year and the condensation(I am thinking this is the problem being the sensors are on metal parts) and it should be built a hell of a lot better.
 
:gag:

in 2007 I was at Goodwood festival, the day it absolutely threw it down with rain. I had my then Nokia hone, a 6300, in my thin waterproof coat pocket. Hadnt realised and of course with the torrential rain, it got a proper 'thrown in a pond' type of soaking....and of course wouldnt turn on. Took battery out, took it home, dried the whole thing off in airing cupboard, put the battery back in, charged, and carried on using it for another year until upgrade came along. The only side effect of its soaking being that the card reader no longer worked, but as I rarely used it for pictures or anything requiring lots of storage, it was never a problem. To think an iphone that costs several hundred pounds can be rendered useless by even the smallest amount of moisture is frankly obscene.

I am desperate to get an iphone as soon as our next upgrade is due, and whilst I am sure there are hundreds of phones that have never had a problem [you have to assume this on the basis of the 'cult' following they have], I do wonder if I should be looking at something a little more robust. Which also discounts our current LG's, but thats another story :bonk:
 
Well as i say i have one also and i am now worried about how robust mines will be, I have put my sim into another phone till the weather clears a bit just incase but jees this should not be an issue surly...
 
we have had a nokia phone that went through a complete wash cycle and worked
dried it out put the battery back in and it worked fine
the majority of people myself included do take extra care with the iphone due to the replacement cost
i guy i work with threw his sons one off of a scaffolding at work from roof height it was in a case and slid out across the road and works fine just a few scratches
i have had my 3gs for about 5 months with no issues
 
The thing here is that the phone has had extra care taken of it, like you would not know.lol.

She even wiped it clean with one of my lens clothes after touching it this is why i am so angry about it just seems something strange is going on with these handsets and to trip both sensors is even more strange.
 
When i was with Orange about 3 years ago they always offered free insurance for the first year you were with them, I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it would certainly be worth asking the question.
 
i can understand how frustrating it would be
would you be covered on your home insurance
 
No insurance was offered, and yes house insurance will no doubt cover it but i am going to try and get Apple to sort the issue, stand my ground so to speak.

I have a few options i am going to try and any options would be great on how i could maybe fight my case.

I will leave this running here as i would like to see if anybody else on here has had an issue.
 
Firstly, your contract of sale is with Orange and not Apple, therefore concentrate your arguement with/against Orange (Sale of Goods Act).

Secondly, if you bought the phone on a credit card, contact your credit card provider as again you have a contract with them (Consumer Credit Act).

Ignore the cause for the issue for the moment as the diagnosis could easily be wrong (a sales person at Orange is not a telecommunications engineer after all !). Contact both Orange and CC company and say I have bought a phone and its a few days old and it has failed. Tell them it's unfit for sale (Sales of Goods Act) and demand a replacement. Go from there...
 
Defiance said:
Firstly, your contract of sale is with Orange and not Apple, therefore concentrate your arguement with/against Orange (Sale of Goods Act).

Secondly, if you bought the phone on a credit card, contact your credit card provider as again you have a contract with them (Consumer Credit Act).

Ignore the cause for the issue for the moment as the diagnosis could easily be wrong (a sales person at Orange is not a telecommunications engineer after all !). Contact both Orange and CC company and say I have bought a phone and its a few days old and it has failed. Tell them it's unfit for sale (Sales of Goods Act) and demand a replacement. Go from there...
Click to expand...

Well i would have thought Orange should do something but it seems not they say they buy the phone from apple to go with the contact they supply.

No credit card purchase, and it was apple store that gave me the utterly gut pulling news(diagnosis).

I called there head office in Ireland and the 18yrs old senior said, well we have to go with what out technoligy tells us (these are stickers bye the way).

It is utter nonsense and there must be loads of people out there being ripped off with this product.

You would have thought a £450 phone would be more robust than this, i mean they stick the small sensor in the headphone socket and usb port, they are right there for the taking should the smallest thing go wrong.
 
GlasgowGunner said:
Well i would have thought Orange should do something but it seems not they say they buy the phone from apple to go with the contact they supply.

No credit card purchase, and it was apple store that gave me the utterly gut pulling news(diagnosis).

I called there head office in Ireland and the 18yrs old senior said, well we have to go with what out technoligy tells us (these are stickers bye the way).

It is utter nonsense and there must be loads of people out there being ripped off with this product.

You would have thought a £450 phone would be more robust than this, i mean they stick the small sensor in the headphone socket and usb port, they are right there for the taking should the smallest thing go wrong.
Click to expand...

Did you buy the phone from Orange or from the Apple Store ?
 
GlasgowGunner said:
Well i would have thought Orange should do something but it seems not they say they buy the phone from apple to go with the contact they supply.

No credit card purchase, and it was apple store that gave me the utterly gut pulling news(diagnosis).

I called there head office in Ireland and the 18yrs old senior said, well we have to go with what out technoligy tells us (these are stickers bye the way).

It is utter nonsense and there must be loads of people out there being ripped off with this product.

You would have thought a £450 phone would be more robust than this, i mean they stick the small sensor in the headphone socket and usb port, they are right there for the taking should the smallest thing go wrong.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, that can be applied to any make of phone purchased from any manufacturer by any service provider - your contract is still with Orange, not Apple. Its like Comet buying washing machines from Hotpoint, under SOG and statutary rights, your contract would be with Comet, not Hotpoint. and it would be comets responsibility to sort any issues - this is additional to any manufacturers warranty. As long as you bought from Orange [even if it was 'free' with the contract], its Orange that have to sort the issue out.
 
Right, to be very very clear - your contract of sale is with Orange.

By law (the Sale of Goods Act 1979), they are responsible for selling you a defective phone. All of your consumer rights are with them and not Apple.

Orange bought the phone from Apple as their supplier, they have a separate contract of sale for that purchase with Apple which is nothing to do with you as a consumer and in no way influences your contacts of sale with Orange. They are fobbing you off.

As the phone is 10 days old, contact them and say you have a new phone which has failed. Demand a replacement as is your right under the Sale of Goods Act. Do not accept being fobbed off to Apple. Orange are responsible for providing you with a phone of merchantable quality (i.e. it works properly) by law. If it doesn't work, they solely are responsible for repairing or replacing it. As the goods are new, you can legitimately ask for a replacement.
 
Defiance said:
Right, to be very very clear - your contract of sale is with Orange.

By law (the Sale of Goods Act 1979), they are responsible for selling you a defective phone. All of your consumer rights are with them and not Apple.

Orange bought the phone from Apple as their supplier, they have a separate contract of sale for that purchase with Apple which is nothing to do with you as a consumer and in no way influences your contacts of sale with Orange. They are fobbing you off.

As the phone is 10 days old, contact them and say you have a new phone which has failed. Demand a replacement as is your right under the Sale of Goods Act. Do not accept being fobbed off to Apple. Orange are responsible for providing you with a phone of merchantable quality (i.e. it works properly) by law. If it doesn't work, they solely are responsible for repairing or replacing it. As the goods are new, you can legitimately ask for a replacement.
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Yes with Orange, Can i ask how you would know this? Do you work in this area?
 
Can only confirm what the others have said. Give up on Apple a. your contract isnt with them b. they have bad record on subjects like this and never budge unless they have complaint in the millions with court action.

When contacting Orange keep a record of communication.
1. Keep a diary of phone calls, date - time - name of member of staff - record if possible (skype) [ you need to warn them you are recording though]. And make sure you save any emails.
2. If your not happy with what they say, request information on the complaints proceedure.
3. Check on your legal standing of not paying the contract, it could be more trouble than its worth if you stop paying and break the contract.
4. Get the apple report in writing.
5. Document the examples of others having this problem (if you find news stories with hard figures note the source and the figures)

Complaints are based on risk assesment a lot of the time, "if this customer decideds to take action will they win" so if you have all the proof you are more likely to get a favourable outcome. Compile all the above and send it to orange with a copy of your legal rights highlighted should do the trick.
 
GlasgowGunner said:
Cool i'll try your methods then.lol

Cheers for the help.:thumbs:
Click to expand...

You're welcome :)

Also, remember not to give Orange the diagnosis from Apple. Simply tell them it doesnt work and what happened with the iphone itself in the lead up to it i.e. the facts only. You can mention the fact that Apple could not fix it via their telephone support line. Do not under any circumstances mention your visit to the Appple Store or their water ingress theory (it doesnt sound like a proper diagnosis to me). If they advise you to take it to Apple for review/repair refuse on the grounds that it is brand new and has failed and you should not have to do any more running around at your expense and in your time to rectify faulty goods that Orange supplied. Demand a replacement only. If the person you talk to declines - ask to escalate it. Be sure to quote the Sale of Goods Act itself as they'll then know that you know your rights.
 
ah apple and orange, quite possibly the 2 most stubborn companys for customer complains..

i really do wish you luck. but like the others said quote the sale of goods act at orange.. are you still within your 14 day contract cooling off period? it may be worth threatening cancellation..
 
Take it in to the nearest orange shop and tell them you want a replacement. It's failed, it doesn't work, it's only a few days old... and you want a brand new replacement here and now.

I had an issue with an O2 iphone that kept randomly switching itself off. I did contact O2 tech support who said that as I'd only had it a few days that I should just take it back and get a replacement. Yes, I know yours is with orange, but it's the same argument. The onus is with them to provide you with a phone that works, don't hang about do it asap! And don't let them fob you off with anything other than a brand new replacement in a sealed box!
 
Ok im off to work for my last day fro the holidays,YIPEEE.
Anyway i would like for people to tell me if they have anything to add to this whilst im out.

I will be contacting Orange when i get in from work with all i have been told so far to see if it helps, Once again thanks folk.
 
Ok folk i tryed all that was said about this to Orange but they are holding in the fact it's nothing to do with them, They say they supply the airtime on the contact and apple supply the handset, they said this is the same with all the providers that have the iphone as apple would only let them have it in this case.
 
just return it then within the 14 day cooling off period
 
terryuk said:
just return it then within the 14 day cooling off period
Click to expand...

Well see i would but we are so angry about this and i feel it will and has happened to others so i would like to fight it out, i know it's a big risk but i feel i should get this sorted out.
 
GlasgowGunner said:
Ok folk i tryed all that was said about this to Orange but they are holding in the fact it's nothing to do with them, They say they supply the airtime on the contact and apple supply the handset, they said this is the same with all the providers that have the iphone as apple would only let them have it in this case.
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They are talking utter rubbish !

Ask them to produce the Contract of Sale between you and Apple as proof, for example, a copy of the invoice for the phone. If you already have an invoice from Orange for the phone, even if it is free, then that would constitute a contract of sale between you and Orange for the iPhone (and therefore not between you and Apple). If you're not sure, scan a copy of any paperwork and i'd happily have a look for you.

It's also important to identify that you have 2 very separate contracts with Orange. The first is for the supply of the phone (the contract of sale). The second is your airtime contract, which governs the supply of airtime. Both of these are with Orange unless they can prove otherwise. They are not interlinked in any way, shape or form.

This may also be of use and is the government's advice on the subject:

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/thinking_about/mobile-phones/

Btw, I have an iphone which was faulty after 1 day. I rung up o2 and they replaced it without a quibble. No mention of Apple !
 
You should also ask Orange where on their website and where during the online sales process are you advised that the iphone is supplied by Apple. If they do not do this (and I couldn't find it anywhere) , then Orange are again clearing entering into a contract of sale with you for the sale of that phone. If you bought it in store, you should ask where in the sales process were you advised that Apple supply the phone. It they can't, the same applies.
 
I agree with Defiance on this, although had a similar problem with GlasgowGunner earlier in the year with T-Mobile and Nokia.

I basically had 4x 6600 handsets, all of which ended up being faulty, and they said all they could do was act as a go-between with me and Nokia. They were only offering assistance as it was a 'gesture of goodwill'.

I didn't bother fighting it as I couldn't deal with the hassle as there were more important things in life however I never bought the phone off Nokia, I bought it off T-Mobile as with you and the iPhone/Orange.

Sale of Goods act will come in to affect as said, even if the handset was free, plus also there is an element of 'product required to use the service provided' and as they are the service provider they should ensure the equipment is up to scratch. You don't see BT fobbing you off to the manufacturers when modems break.

DB
 
Orange is correct. If you have a fault on your Iphone it needs to be taken up with Apple. The iphone's are slightly different in regards to warranty etc. Pricing is governed by Apple and repairs are also governed by Apple (unless u go with a 3rd party repairer which i dont recommend). They seem to have a monopoly on this and a pretty strong stranglehold. As for water damage, there's two indicators (one in headphone jack and one in usb port) and if it's water damaged it turns Pink.
This is the first thing Apple will check when u book an appointment with one of their 'geniuses' at the genius bar. And for it to turn pink, it does need to be completely submerged in water. Condensation alone will not make it turn pink. I've used my iphone in rain and snow and it's been fine. Even in places like asia where it's really humid and scotland where it constantly rained and snowed.

Good luck with it mate. And that is the reason why insurance if offered. ;)
 
pixeljunkie said:
Orange is correct. If you have a fault on your Iphone it needs to be taken up with Apple. The iphone's are slightly different in regards to warranty etc. Pricing is governed by Apple and repairs are also governed by Apple (unless u go with a 3rd party repairer which i dont recommend). They seem to have a monopoly on this and a pretty strong stranglehold. As for water damage, there's two indicators (one in headphone jack and one in usb port) and if it's water damaged it turns Pink.
This is the first thing Apple will check when u book an appointment with one of their 'geniuses' at the genius bar. And for it to turn pink, it does need to be completely submerged in water. Condensation alone will not make it turn pink. I've used my iphone in rain and snow and it's been fine. Even in places like asia where it's really humid and scotland where it constantly rained and snowed.

Good luck with it mate. And that is the reason why insurance if offered. ;)
Click to expand...

With the greatest of respect, you are completely wrong.

This is covered very clearly by law. Apple and Orange are not above the law as no manufacturer or retailer is.

Follow the Consumer Direct link in the post above for the statements on this from the government themselves. I don't see any exclusion for Orange or Apple.
 
Defiance said:
With the greatest of respect, you are completely wrong.

This is covered very clearly by law. Apple and Orange are not above the law as no manufacturer or retailer is.

Follow the Consumer Direct link in the post above for the statements on this from the government themselves. I don't see any exclusion for Orange or Apple.
Click to expand...

Ok If you say so :) I work for carphonewarehouse and this comes across quite often. ;) If there's a fault/repair our customers go directly to Apple. Unless they take out our insurance they send it to us and we send it off to Apple.
 
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