Ipads overhyped or not ??

trencheel303 said:
I'm guessing you guys have both extensively used all available tablets from the competition then, so as to make an accurate comparison...
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Yes I also test drive every make and model of car I can afford before plunking down 30-40 tablets worth of cash for one.

On the tablet side, I have tried the major players from Android and its not hard to see even from the reviews who leads the pack (Samsung right now). I work in the mobile data business so we need to have the major market contenders available for testing. So I consider myself quite informed about the choices.

It's not about the specs, I know very well that android manufacturers keep one-upping each other with faster quad core processors and newer gpu cores etc, which is leading to fragmentation on the HW front. This is good for competition but bad for the software (app) developers, especially in games where some developers have thrown in the Rowell trying to support a fragmented platform which produces limited income.

Android tablets are a good deal for the hardware you get, unfortunately the software bit isn't there even if you're ready to spend more to get it.
 
vaizki said:
Yes I also test drive every make and model of car I can afford before plunking down 30-40 tablets worth of cash for one.
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Missed the point.

I want to hear from the people who claim the iPad is better than the competition that they have personally verified that... otherwise their claims are false and misleading to the OP really aren't they.
 
trencheel303 said:
Missed the point.

I want to hear from the people who claim the iPad is better than the competition that they have personally verified that... otherwise their claims are false and misleading to the OP really aren't they.
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Well I have personally verified it time and time again, at least every 6 months as I'd really love to have a more open platform for some things.

I think the car analogy applies, we've heard from happy iPad owners but unless I missed it (writing this on my iPad) no happy android tablet owners have come forward. Maybe they're afraid that we apple users will bash their shiny toys but rest assured I really want to hear some positive android tablet experiences, or windows tablets for that matter. It's no different to asking on pistons heads what's the best family car with 200+ bhp, not many have driven them all and most will provide opinions based on a limited scope of experience & lean back on reviews in the press.
 
I would never buy another apple product after my last experience.

I used to have a Macbook Pro that I paid £1300 for. It lasted 18 months. They wanted £750 to repair it (for a new logic board).

I since learnt that it was a problem with the nVidia graphics chip that nVidia were taking the hit on repairs, and Apple just didn't want to know.

Take a look at http://www.seattlerex.com/seattle-rex-vs-apple-the-verdict-is-in/ - it makes for quite interesting reading, but in a nutshell Apple sent multiple lawyers and spent god knows how much money trying to fight a lawsuit over the same issue I had. When they could have fixed it at no cost to themselves.

Do you really want to buy a product from a company that has such 'values'?
 
trencheel303 said:
Missed the point.

I want to hear from the people who claim the iPad is better than the competition that they have personally verified that... otherwise their claims are false and misleading to the OP really aren't they.
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You missed the point. The opposition are all using an iteration of Google Android as their operating system. It doesn't really matter which model you choose, the experience is really going to be pretty similar. Yes, some have different hardware, but in terms of user experience.....
 
vaizki said:
Well I have personally verified it time and time again, at least every 6 months as I'd really love to have a more open platform for some things.

I think the car analogy applies, we've heard from happy iPad owners but unless I missed it (writing this on my iPad) no happy android tablet owners have come forward. Maybe they're afraid that we apple users will bash their shiny toys but rest assured I really want to hear some positive android tablet experiences, or windows tablets for that matter. It's no different to asking on pistons heads what's the best family car with 200+ bhp, not many have driven them all and most will provide opinions based on a limited scope of experience & lean back on reviews in the press.
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I did mention earlier in the thread that I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 gathering dust....
So, yes I'm an Android tablet owner, but not a happy one. A very disappointed one.
 
I am not saying it is not a great tool. What i found when i got it for my other half was that it is very good for general use i.e. the usual things you do everyday like browsing the internet, email etc. For everything else it is useless unless you pay some more money.

Yes everyone is saying that you can do presentations, VPN into networks, GPS etc but what they don't tell you is that to do all that you have to pay extra. Try and edit a simple Word/Office document on your brand new Ipad :)
 
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Ricardodaforce said:
The opposition are all using an iteration of Google Android as their operating system. It doesn't really matter which model you choose, the experience is really going to be pretty similar.
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Not necessarily, like with different versions of Linux and different hardware the experience can be a world apart. You can't compare a Samsung Galaxy S2 to a HTC Wildfire S, for instance. Both use Android as the base system, but that's about where the similarity ends - yet they are both one and the same in that they are "competitors" to Apple.

All I want to know is that the Apple people who claim "the competition" is no good, are actually aware of what "the competition" is.
 
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ziggy©;4741764 said:
IYes everyone is saying that you can do presentations, VPN into networks, GPS etc but what they don't tell you is that to do all that you have to pay extra.
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VPN is a free option, GPS is free on the 3G versions, wifi has location services using wifi. both have free maps programs capable of directions.

Try and edit a simple Word/Office document on your brand new Ipad :)
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try it on a new laptop.. ;)
 
trencheel303 said:
I was taught to read and how to count by a blackboard and a piece of paper... your, or rather your daughter's experience doesn't mean the iPad is a definitive learning tool.
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Where did I say that it was?

My comment was in reply to someone who said it was useless for anything other than web browsing email and video.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
OK, for the 3rd time. I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and an iPad.
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I don't quite think you're getting it.

The Samsung Galaxy does not stand for all of Apple's competitors. It's one product using one particular "type" of Android.

You didn't like the Samsung product and moved to Apple - fine, good on you, but that doesn't mean you can speak for every other Android/Blackberry/other product out there in the same market as Apple.
 
trencheel303 said:
I'm guessing you guys have both extensively used all available tablets from the competition then, so as to make an accurate comparison...
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you name it. I've tried it. It's one of the roles in my job to look at competition in education.

Im also a developer for android and apple os so I know a little bit about them.
 
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trencheel303 said:
Not necessarily, like with different versions of Linux and different hardware the experience can be a world apart. You can't compare a Samsung Galaxy S2 to a HTC Wildfire S, for instance. Both use Android as the base system, but that's about where the similarity ends - yet they are both one and the same in that they are "competitors" to Apple.
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actualy I can say the experience is the same across all android tablets. Poor. Im speaking to the entire experience, not just the buttons you press on a tablet, everything, the ecosystem, the support, the content available. They are all the same... poor.

in my opinion of course
 
joescrivens said:
you name it. I've tried it. It's one of the roles in my job to look at competition in education.

Im also a developer for android and apple os so I know a little bit about them.
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In that case then you've made a fair comparison... I suspect however the vast majority of people who say that have, as in Ricardo's case, only tried one "competitor" product they didn't like, rubbished it and then tarred everything else with the same brush, which I really don't think is fair, and it's this kind of misinformation that damages brands.

Personally technology is a big big part of my life, and I like tinkering, so I don't feel contained by the same "walls" of less intuitive devices that would probably put the mass market off, so I quite liked Android (on a phone) and would probably prefer an Android tablet over an Apple one. (I have experienced Apple on a phone and also used an iPad several times, and got quite a bit of Mac experience, old and new)



Ricardodaforce said:
I think you can. One has Sense, one has Touchwiz. They are skins, not different operating systems. The differences are mainly cosmetic.
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The differences of a lot of devices we use nowadays are mainly cosmetic... from cars to computers to phones. It's that bit that's important though, because cosmetic is what we see and use. The devices I mention also have different dimensions, screen and processing power. One of the things I like about Android tablets is you get ones that are around 7 inches in size - perfect. But you can't get a 7 inch iPad, which would bug me.
 
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jokeruk said:
With openoffice,no problem. Are there any free apps for the pad that'll do the same?
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knew someone would say openoffice. point was that you still need to load something by default either way. openoffice is a bit "meh" anyway (my opinion).. to be honest ive never looked for free office apps for ipad, not something id ever use mine for.
 
trencheel303 said:
In that case then you've made a fair comparison... I suspect however the vast majority of people who say that have, as in Ricardo's case, only tried one "competitor" product they didn't like, rubbished it and then tarred everything else with the same brush, which I really don't think is fair, and it's this kind of misinformation that damages brands.

Personally technology is a big big part of my life, and I like tinkering, so I don't feel contained by the same "walls" of less intuitive devices that would probably put the mass market off, so I quite liked Android (on a phone) and would probably prefer an Android tablet over an Apple one. (I have experienced Apple on a phone and also used an iPad several times)
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the idea of android is a good one based on a good ideal. Nothing wrong with that. Its understandable why people like that if they like to tinker etc

The problem is the implementation of that ideal has been weak when you look at the larger picture. Google play is a joke, from a developer and a customer point of view.
 
trencheel303 said:
I don't quite think you're getting it.

The Samsung Galaxy does not stand for all of Apple's competitors. It's one product using one particular "type" of Android.

You didn't like the Samsung product and moved to Apple - fine, good on you, but that doesn't mean you can speak for every other Android/Blackberry/other product out there in the same market as Apple.
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But, what your asking for is not really how the world works for most people...

What you will get is happy users for all walks of life with good experiences to share with a particular tablet (or car, or TV, or Camera), and unhappy users with bad experiences to share. Very, very few people (if any) will have personally tried every possible product on the market to the same extent in a truly impartial way, so dismissing feedback from the former two groups is a little churlish.
 
trencheel303 said:
In that case then you've made a fair comparison... I suspect however the vast majority of people who say that have, as in Ricardo's case, only tried one "competitor" product they didn't like, rubbished it and then tarred everything else with the same brush, which I really don't think is fair, and it's this kind of misinformation that damages brands.

Personally technology is a big big part of my life, and I like tinkering, so I don't feel contained by the same "walls" of less intuitive devices that would probably put the mass market off, so I quite liked Android (on a phone) and would probably prefer an Android tablet over an Apple one. (I have experienced Apple on a phone and also used an iPad several times, and got quite a bit of Mac experience, old and new)





The differences of a lot of devices we use nowadays are mainly cosmetic... from cars to computers to phones. It's that bit that's important though, because cosmetic is what we see and use.
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My experience of Android is more than my Galaxy Tab. I had an HTC Legend. My wife had an HTC Desire. I'm pretty familiar with Android, whether it's dressed up in Sense or Touchwiz.

For me, the greatest disappointment relating to Android tablets is Google Play. The QUALITY just isn't there compared to what's available for the iPad. It doesn't matter how good the hardware is, if the apps are pants. Of course, that applies to every single Android tablet.
 
joescrivens said:
The problem is the implementation of that ideal has been weak when you look at the larger picture. Google play is a joke, from a developer and a customer point of view.
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I haven't used an Android device since Android Market became Google Play a little while ago, but I did find the Android Market fine for downloading stuff I was after - I will have to look at OH's phone to see if it has degraded much since I moved over to Blackberry.

I think an Apple product is fine if your needs suit what they can provide... but for certain things they have limitations, as I relate to in my previous posts you can't get a 7 inch iPad. Some people's lifestyles fit perfectly into the Apple ideal but then a lot don't.

I have come very close already to getting an older, Wifi only iPad to play with but one thing about Apple stuff always puts me off, you need to keep iTunes current to use it.


Ricardodaforce said:
For me, the greatest disappointment relating to Android tablets is Google Play. The QUALITY just isn't there compared to what's available for the iPad. It doesn't matter how good the hardware is, if the apps are pants. Of course, that applies to every single Android tablet.
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What about Google Play specificaly didn't you like, i.e, what about it was lacking in quality? In what way were the apps pants - couldn't get ones that you could on App Store or were they broken or buggy? I personally found almost all apps I have downloaded onto an Android device work fine - one didn't because the screen resolution of my device at the time didn't support it. My iPod touch, back when I had one, on the other hand was subject to several apps downloaded from the App Store (I didn't jailbreak) that would not open or crashed shortly afterwards. Considering the closed model of Apple and the App Store, it's hard to believe that could actually happen, but it did!
 
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I suspect any real iAdvantages are lost on the vast majority of iUsers who really only need a device for casual web browsing, Angry Birds etc while lounging on the iSofa.

Then Apple's marketing machine goes to work and iWant sets in... iPod, iPhone, iMac, iPad... Before you know it you're a fully paid up member of the iClub (complete with matching iSocks). Cha-ching! :D
 
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ZoneV said:
I suspect any real iAdvantages are lost on the vast majority of iUsers who really only need a device for casual web browsing, Angry Birds etc while lounging on the sofa.

Then Apple's marketing machine goes to work and iWant sets in... :D
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Brilliant argument. Well thought out and constructed. The icing on the cake being the way it was phrased.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Brilliant argument. Well thought out and constructed. The icing on the cake being the way it was phrased.
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Thanks. I added a bit I think you'll like even more.
 
ziggy© said:
I am not saying it is not a great tool. What i found when i got it for my other half was that it is very good for general use i.e. the usual things you do everyday like browsing the internet, email etc. For everything else it is useless unless you pay some more money.

Yes everyone is saying that you can do presentations, VPN into networks, GPS etc but what they don't tell you is that to do all that you have to pay extra. Try and edit a simple Word/Office document on your brand new Ipad :)
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Yes I like having that choice, paying people to create great applications for me to use. They cost peanuts compared to how much my limited time on earth is worth to me. I always opt for MS office over OpenOffice because even though the other is free, I'm more productive with the other.

I also rent movies and buy my games. My game consoles aren't modded and my pcs or macs don't have a single piece of pirated software on them. I can afford that and I also don't wash my own cars. I know it's not a choice for everyone but it is for me and I am happy with paying Apple and app developers for what they give me. But I also want competition! As a consumer I want more for less so go go android tablets, put your best foot forward!

I'll repeat, Linux is fee if your own time is worthless ;). And that's from a big Linux fan. The problem is that when people do something for free, they usually do things that are in their own interest and in a way that suits their needs and working methods perfectly. Screw everyone else, they're getting this for free. So we end up with 3-4 different audio frameworks, IDE and gnome and unity and and... Give me one that works for everything dammit :)

Android is a great effort but it's frankly baffling how badly some of the end products are turning out. It makes me want to cry. As a consumer.
 
 
trencheel303 said:
I have come very close already to getting an older, Wifi only iPad to play with but one thing about Apple stuff always puts me off, you need to keep iTunes current to use it.
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you'll be happy to hear that since IOS5 you don't need iTunes, at least I don't. Backups go to iCloud, updates are over the air, if you've bought music for iTunes then they can be downloaded from iCloud as well. I guess if you want to sync music and photos to the basic apple apps that might need iTunes, not sure since I use spotify and smugmug. And yes, both cost me money every month ;)
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Many app developers lack the resources to write apps for two platforms, and a lot of them are choosing to develop for the iPad.

Of course, one of Android's biggest challenges in the tablet market is the lack of high-quality apps designed for the larger screen

A lack of solid apps has been the biggest problem with Android tablets. One year into the Honeycomb experiment and Android still doesn’t have a healthy number of apps and games to play.
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these are fair enough points on their own... but, the way I'm seeing it is none of these are actually the fault of Google (Play) itself... rather the content within it which has been designed (or not designed as the case may be) by independent people. It's similar to the argument my Mother uses to condemn facebook "facebook is bad because people used it to communicate using the London riots" - it's a fallacy that is condemning facebook rather than the people who participated in the riots. Same idea with your links, the problem is with the developers not taking into account the array of Android devices and designing their apps with flexibility to match.


vaizki said:
you'll be happy to hear that since IOS5 you don't need iTunes, at least I don't. Backups go to iCloud, updates are over the air, if you've bought music for iTunes then they can be downloaded from iCloud as well. I guess if you want to sync music and photos to the basic apple apps that might need iTunes, not sure since I use spotify and smugmug. And yes, both cost me money every month ;)
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You're serious? So there's none of this unwrapping the product and the first thing you see is the "plug into itunes" icon? Hmm, might have to do some further investigation... any excuse for another toy to play with... or use for work, one or the two. They are rather big though...
 
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trencheel303 said:
You're serious? So there's none of this unwrapping the product and the first thing you see is the "plug into itunes" icon? Hmm, might have to do some further investigation... any excuse for another toy to play with... or use for work, one or the two. They are rather big though...
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Indeed, that was introduced from last Oct if memory serves me rightly.
 
It amuses me that hardly anyone built or bought a tablet until Apple introduced the ipad, then everyone jumped on the bandwagon and tried , usually unsuccessfully to imitate it.

To me, the major reason for it's success is the App store, having a wide and reliable choice of apps, books, magazines, films, games and tv available to download securely is ideal.

I bought mine just to see what it was like, and while I still use my laptop I would not get rid of my ipad, and would have to have a very good reason to even consider any other platform.
 
Swings and roundabouts though isn't it. Netbooks came out before the iPad or the MacBook Air 11inch, and Apple spent years condemning netbooks, then brought the iPad and then thought hmm let's slip an 11 inch air in there.

People do take a lot of design cues from Apple but they've also taken quite a few from other manufacturers.
 
trencheel303 said:
these are fair enough points on their own... but, the way I'm seeing it is none of these are actually the fault of Google (Play) itself... rather the content within it which has been designed (or not designed as the case may be)
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it is googles fault. By allowing everything with no review process. This means there is no separation of good from bad in any way shape or form. Combine this with a poor website with poor search facilities and good content gets lost.

Not everything on apple app store is good, but it doesn't even compare to the rubbish on google play. This puts developers off because they sell much less on the android store and as a result don't want to develop more.

I know because I am one of them. Take the nook however which does have a review process and you get better content for its android device, I make as much money on nook as on apple so I keep developing for nook, but no longer out any content on google play.
 
I see nobody has answered my earlier question over my/others experience over Apple, so i'll ask again.

Do people really want to support a company that will spend (probably) tens of thousands of pounds to crush (my words) the 'little man' even though the issue would have been fixed for free by the company that provided the faulty chip.
 
jokeruk said:
I see nobody has answered my earlier question over my/others experience over Apple, so i'll ask again.

Do people really want to support a company that will spend (probably) tens of thousands of pounds to crush (my words) the 'little man' even though the issue would have been fixed for free by the company that provided the faulty chip.
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Generally apples support is pretty good for the average end user, plenty of people have had kit replaced even if out of warranty. I guess you're just unlucky, but that's what AppleCare is for. For the record, I've had some bad experience of apple support but to say they're alone in having some downsides would be extremely blinkered.
 
jokeruk said:
I see nobody has answered my earlier question over my/others experience over Apple, so i'll ask again.

Do people really want to support a company that will spend (probably) tens of thousands of pounds to crush (my words) the 'little man' even though the issue would have been fixed for free by the company that provided the faulty chip.
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I will continue to buy Apple products as long as their product range appeals to me.
 
jokeruk said:
I see nobody has answered my earlier question over my/others experience over Apple, so i'll ask again.

Do people really want to support a company that will spend (probably) tens of thousands of pounds to crush (my words) the 'little man' even though the issue would have been fixed for free by the company that provided the faulty chip.
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I don't buy apple products because I want to support them. I buy them because I want the products in my life. I'm selfish in that way. Their products are to make me happy, I don't care if it in turn makes them rich or not.
 
I have used my I-pad everyday since I brought it,mine the 1st gen.

Is it over hyped maybe, but wouldn't be without mine now :)
 
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