iPad

[Amp34]

Perhaps I should wait a couple of months and just buy an "as new, only used twice" one in the for sale forum for a bargain price then.

The thing is I really think that will happen in a lot of cases, the sort of people who will buy the first tablets/slates will be young, slightly geeky people, generally the sort of people that spend their lives on facespace playing the games..

 

[Kaouthia]

The thing is I really think that will happen in a lot of cases

I'm actually kind of hoping it does, because for one particular application that I think this might be ideally suited to I'd like to get 3 or 4 of them.

 

[aligibbs]

Again both of you are missing the point entirely.

It is not the best because it sold the most, go back and actually read my post. It has sold the most because it is the best. how many times do I have to repeat that part?

It's not the best because everyone has it, it's just the best and thats WHY everyone has it.

It's the best because it has the best complete package the best software and hardware combined nothing else comes close. If that were not the case then it would top all reviews for mp3 players, I'm not making this stuff up, go look at the reviews go ask people who have tried multiple products, go do some polls. It;s the best mp3/mp4 player out there, nothing comes close to an ipod touch.

some things are subjective, but when it comes to mp3 players, it's just fact.

We are going to have to agree to disagree- because whatever is "best" - is not best for everybody. You are stating personal opinion (you think its best), and then say its fact- well that's impossible because I don't think its best

 

[ding76uk]

4. you can't just connect it up to any computer and share/take stuff off/on.

Possibly because that is illegal file sharing and against the law perhaps?:bonk:

 

[Amp34]

I'm actually kind of hoping it does, because for one particular application that I think this might be ideally suited to I'd like to get 3 or 4 of them.

4 iPads? Why?

I do sort of see it idealy suited to the task, which is why the lack of flash and a mobile browser is such a let down.

 

[Kaouthia]

Possibly because that is illegal file sharing and against the law perhaps?:bonk:

Hooking a device up to a PC and transferring files is not in itself an illegal act.

 

[Amp34]

Possibly because that is illegal file sharing and against the law perhaps?:bonk:

I own my photos, sorry if I want to transfer them to someone else, likewise my word documents...

As for videos and music, it's perfectly legal to transfer them from one of your computers to another as well.

With the iPad it's going to be interesting. You show your photos off to someone and they go "wow! Can you stick them on my computer?" "Erm... do you have iTunes?" "No" "Then you'll have to download it, configure it..." if it's anything like trying to get stuff off the iPods.

 

[ding76uk]

Anyway, there are my reasons for not getting the iPad myself and hopefully reasons for others not getting them as well,

Why? Why are you hoping no one else will buy them?

you never know in a couple of years Apple may have caught up with the competition, but at the moment it's an unfinished device in my eyes.

What competition is beating them?

 

[ding76uk]

Can people not see what will be possible?

You cannot comment about how bad it is until you have seen the first series of Applications that are going to be possible.

Flash is easy to sort for this device, and I am sure it will eventually be sorted between the companies, most problems will be on software updates. How many of you use a inbuilt webcam all the time? Or the camera on your laptop to take a photo?

 

[ding76uk]

Hooking a device up to a PC and transferring files is not in itself an illegal act.

No the implication of transferring files from an mp3 is purely music, otherwise people would just use a flash drive.

I own my photos, sorry if I want to transfer them to someone else, likewise my word documents...

You must be one of the few who do not use a flash drive for such things?

I think it is obvious sharing in that sense would generally be regarded as sharing music.

As for between your own computers, it is very easy via itunes and a wireless connection.

 

[Kaouthia]

How many of you use a inbuilt webcam all the time?

I have 3 laptops all with built in webcams. I don't think I've actually used any of them, not even once.

 

[Amp34]

Why? Why are you hoping no one else will buy them?

Because it's an unoriginal product with massive flaws in it, it just smacks to me of Apple making something half heartedly to beat the competition to release for one.

What competition is beating them?

Have a search for Android based tablets for one, there are quite a few out there/coming out. These will alomst certainly have flash, are wider screen for films, and be able to natively run just about anything you can throw at them with regards to music and video formats. Apple are ahead on a few features from the early viewing of the devices but way behind in a lot of IMO more important features for a device like this.

 

[Kaouthia]

You must be one of the few who do not use a flash drive for such things?

I am too. Why should I bother carrying around a flash drive when my Omnia gives my 16GB of mobile storage?

 

[ding76uk]

Because it's an unoriginal product with massive flaws in it, it just smacks to me of Apple making something half heartedly to beat the competition to release for one.

Have a search for Android based tablets for one, there are quite a few out there/coming out. These will alomst certainly have flash, are wider screen for films, and be able to natively run just about anything you can throw at them with regards to music and video formats. Apple are ahead on a few features from the early viewing of the devices but way behind in a lot of IMO more important features for a device like this.

The Dell mini one looks like a poor ipod touch rip off way too small.

The are basically the same thing, except with a different OS. I am pretty sure you will need software to sync stuff onto it.

Screen size is relative. You mention bigger screen size for films, unless the physical dimensions are bigger in any one direction then it will not give a bigger viewing area for films, so therefore this is a moot point unless you want these tablet to be huge.

 

[jontucker]

I've just had a thought... watching F1 this season with an F1 Timing app on the iPad is gonna be suuuweeeeeet!

 

[dinorock]

haha good luck with that...more like £499

just what i was thinking "dont worry the brits will pay £50 more for it"

 

[Amp34]

Can people not see what will be possible?

You cannot comment about how bad it is until you have seen the first series of Applications that are going to be possible.

Flash is easy to sort for this device, and I am sure it will eventually be sorted between the companies, most problems will be on software updates. How many of you use a inbuilt webcam all the time? Or the camera on your laptop to take a photo?

I can see the possibility, however for home use the lack of flash is the big killer for me, as is the lack of a USB port, the uselessness as a e book reader for times when you are away from home and the lack of widescreen for film watching.

I don't care about a camera, I never use the one on my laptop, however I am starting to see why people want one so much (and lot of the competition seem to have one).

WRT flash being easy to sort out, it is, however I don't think Apple have any intention of sorting it out, they will lose profit from it and it would open up the device more.

No the implication of transferring files from an mp3 is purely music, otherwise people would just use a flash drive.



You must be one of the few who do not use a flash drive for such things?

I think it is obvious sharing in that sense would generally be regarded as sharing music.

As for between your own computers, it is very easy via itunes and a wireless connection.

I have a flash drive, but it's not always with me, my phone is always with me and the mp3 player used to be so if I had a few documents to transfer I could just do that.

Admittedly yes I see for a lot of people the idea of sharing from an mp3 player is music, just not for me.

But again you need iTunes apparently, you can also do it via networking in windows (vista made it easyish and W7 makes it a piece of cake) however my computers aren't always in the same locations so it doesn't work like that.

The Dell mini one looks like a poor ipod touch rip off way too small.

The are basically the same thing, except with a different OS. I am pretty sure you will need software to sync stuff onto it.

Screen size is relative. You mention bigger screen size for films, unless the physical dimensions are bigger in any one direction then it will not give a bigger viewing area for films, so therefore this is a moot point unless you want these tablet to be huge.

Looked at the MSI offering? There is also a colour e-ink style device out with 8ms response rate and 40-400h battery life.

These devices seem to all have similar size screens, widescreen and around 10-11", so slightly longer, but thinner than the iPad which means they will give a bigger viewing area for films (think of a 20" 4:3 screen and a 20" widescreen display, aa normal film will use around 14" diagonally in the 4:3 screen whereas around 20" for the widescreen).

The iPad looks like a good device for photos, just I really don't see it having anything more to offer over other devices for things like web and video, especially as they will be able to show photos almost as well, and be easier to stick stuff on (most will amost certainly just be drag and drop straight from computer/camera, without any extra things to buy).

 

[Ste L]

I've just had a thought... watching F1 this season with an F1 Timing app on the iPad is gonna be suuuweeeeeet!

i like the idea of that, save's sitting at the comp when watching

 

[irw1]

 

[ding76uk]

(think of a 20" 4:3 screen and a 20" widescreen display, aa normal film will use around 14" diagonally in the 4:3 screen whereas around 20" for the widescreen).

But you need to look at the physical sizes of these devices. A 20" widescreen has larger dimensions in width than a 20" 4x3. This is my point with the screen. The device will need to be substantially bigger in one direction to have a bigger picture. Also when then not in widescreen gives a bigger area for use in a more compact device overall. I am sure Apple looked heavily into all this in development of the device, and reasoned with screen shape, and came back with this shape for a specific reason.

Another thing, on the 3G versions do you seriously think apple aren't planning a way to make calls on this as well? Again one device to view documents and call the office whilst doing so. Another selling point that will come in a firmware to regenerate interest into the device. As with most things like this now, the firmware needs are already sorted, but are shipped periodically to keep demand and the media in the public eye.

 

[jontucker]

and came back with this shape for a specific reason.

I dare say that specific reason is that it's designed to be used in portrait orientation half the time. a 16:9 screen would be pretty daft that way up!

 

[Lostgear]

Lets face it, its not a true mobile device. If you want to watch movies or listen to music on the run, then the iTouch is king.

I see this as being a "coffee table device" You know, when you are watching TV and generally lazing around AT HOME, having a device on the table, in-between all the magazines etc which you can just turn on and start using immidately, no waiting for laptops to start-up or having to go to the study to use the desktop etc. Same thing for showing off photos etc

Imagine this device controlling music playback back to your stereo via an imac and airtunes, awsome. Thinking about it, you could controle your cable or Sky+, or even home security. The possibilities are endless, only bounded by Apple locking the software down Why do they do that, anyone know how to DUN on the ITouch........ rambling now:bonk:

 

[apkent]

I'm surprised people expected this to have widescreen.

Using websites on widescreen is a horrible experience, as is doing any other sort of 'general' work. You try typing a report using a widescreen device. Its either too wide, meaning your A4 report only uses the centre of the screen, or you rotate the device which is now too narrow. Widescreen would be lovely for movies, I agree, but for the other 80% of the time just doesn't work.

Plus of course, NONE of the apps on appstore would work.

 

[aligibbs]

I own my photos, sorry if I want to transfer them to someone else, likewise my word documents...

As for videos and music, it's perfectly legal to transfer them from one of your computers to another as well.

No its not- its illegal, as is ripping a cd into MP3- under the current laws

 

[Amp34]

Just a mockup I made

That black line is the same on both, lets give it an arbitory length of 10", yes the widescreen device is slightly longer, however it is also slightly thinner (interestingly enough all the other devices seem to be widescreen, same with phones and laptops), making the proportions almost exactly the same.

The yellow rectangles are the largest amorphous (most films are that res not 16:9) images you can fit in, with the green rectange being an identical size to the yellow rectangle in the 4:3 rectangle, this shows the size difference between the two. That green one, instead of being around 9" is around 6.5", quite a big difference.

When you also consider the other devices seem to be slightly bigger (around an inch diagonally) then you get even more screen space for almost no difference in external dimensions. It's also worth noting that A4 paper is a very similar ratio to 16:9 and so fits in easier.

To me bringing out a device not in widescreen that is supposed to be a media device is a little silly in todays world, especially when the competition all seem to have chosen widescreen displays. Lets face it, if this device was from another company there wouldn't be anywhere near the interest in it, having said that there do seem to be very few people in this thread that actually think it is that good and for an apple product that just shows how badly off the mark they seem to be, not with the idea, which seems ok, but with the design and features.

 

[Jamesbuk]

Aligibbs

On that basis, isn't downloading a song via itunes to your hard disk - which is then sync'd to your iPod also illegal?

hmm..

James

 

[aligibbs]

Aligibbs - On that basis, isn't downloading a song via itunes to your hard disk - which is then sync'd to your iPod also illegal?

hmm..

James

Don't think so- not read through the itunes store T&C's though. Basically "re-recording" a cd into another medium (mp3, whatever) is still illegal. I doubt it would ever be enforced- as its now as stupid/silly law. (I did hear they were going to change this).

 

[ding76uk]

Imagine this device controlling music playback back to your stereo via an imac and airtunes, awsome. Thinking about it, you could controle your cable or Sky+, or even home security.

It would kill of pretty much all high end remote controls straight away if you could get something on this device. This to control all my AV equipment along with the other features would be amazing. Sure there will be an app of this type along. No more lost remotes to worry about.

 

[Amp34]

I'm surprised people expected this to have widescreen.

Using websites on widescreen is a horrible experience, as is doing any other sort of 'general' work. You try typing a report using a widescreen device. Its either too wide, meaning your A4 report only uses the centre of the screen, or you rotate the device which is now too narrow. Widescreen would be lovely for movies, I agree, but for the other 80% of the time just doesn't work.

Plus of course, NONE of the apps on appstore would work.

I see your point there to an extent, however it depends what you mean by widescreen, for example most people now have widescreen monitors (1680x1050 and 1920x1200 etc) and most smartphones have widescreen displays (800x480). These work perfectly for every day use.

No its not- its illegal, as is ripping a cd into MP3- under the current laws

Actually it's not "illegal" its against copyright, which is a civil offence, and anyway not even the music producser try and enforce the CD copying restriction.

 

[Amp34]

It would kill of pretty much all high end remote controls straight away if you could get something on this device. This to control all my AV equipment along with the other features would be amazing. Sure there will be an app of this type along. No more lost remotes to worry about.

There are already touch screen devices out there that do exactly the same thing as what you mention and have been for years, just depends if they can port their software over enough I guess.

 

[aligibbs]

Actually it's not "illegal" its against copyright, which is a civil offence, and anyway not even the music producser try and enforce the CD copying restriction.

Criminal offences

Acts that may be criminal offences in the UK include:

* Making copies for the purpose of selling or hiring them to others[44]
* Importing infringing copies (except for personal use)[45]
* Offering for sale or hire, publicly displaying or otherwise distributing infringing copies in the course of a business[46]
* Distributing a large enough number of copies to have a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright owner[47]
* Making or possessing equipment for the purposes of making infringing copies in the course of a business[48]
* Publicly performing a work in knowledge that the performance is unauthorised[49]
* Communicating copies or infringing the right to "make available" copies to the public (either in the course of a business, or to an extent that has a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright owner)[50]
* Manufacturing commercially, importing for non-personal use, possessing in the course of a business, or distributing to an extent that has a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright holder, a device primarily designed for circumventing a technological copyright protection measure.[51]

The penalties for these copyright infringement offences depend on the seriousness of the offences, and may include:

* Before a magistrates' Court, the penalties for distributing unauthorised files are a maximum fine of £5,000 and/or six months imprisonment;
* On indictment (in the Crown Court) some offences may attract an unlimited fine and up to 10 years imprisonment. [52]

Taken from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#British_law

Also note:

A survey carried out in 2006 for the National Consumer Council indicated that over half of British adults infringe copyright law by copying and ripping music CDs, with 59% stating a belief that copying for personal use is legal.[40] However, ripping music from CDs to another format, such as MP3, is currently illegal. In 2006 The Institute for Public Policy Research called for a "public right to copy".[41] In January 2008 the government proposed changes to copyright law that would legalise copying for personal use.[42]

 

[ding76uk]

There are already touch screen devices out there that do exactly the same thing as what you mention and have been for years, just depends if they can port their software over enough I guess.

I am fully aware of that, but what I am saying is that the cost is in the same ballpark as this, and none of those devices can do what this can. Do you not see how that would be a big advancement?

 

[Mattwood]

not sure if its been metioned but the iPad uses a completely new SIM format, presumably to lock people to certain providers?

You can actually cut a standard SIM down to the size. there is a network which has a SIM that is standard size or you can pop it out to the micro size

Don't let them con you - if i get an iPad i will be getting a O2 P&G sim £15 a month unlimited internet thank you!

 

[Amp34]

Criminal offences

Acts that may be criminal offences in the UK include:

* Making copies for the purpose of selling or hiring them to others[44]
* Importing infringing copies (except for personal use)[45]
* Offering for sale or hire, publicly displaying or otherwise distributing infringing copies in the course of a business[46]
* Distributing a large enough number of copies to have a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright owner[47]
* Making or possessing equipment for the purposes of making infringing copies in the course of a business[48]
* Publicly performing a work in knowledge that the performance is unauthorised[49]
* Communicating copies or infringing the right to "make available" copies to the public (either in the course of a business, or to an extent that has a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright owner)[50]
* Manufacturing commercially, importing for non-personal use, possessing in the course of a business, or distributing to an extent that has a noticeable effect on the business of the copyright holder, a device primarily designed for circumventing a technological copyright protection measure.[51]

The penalties for these copyright infringement offences depend on the seriousness of the offences, and may include:

* Before a magistrates' Court, the penalties for distributing unauthorised files are a maximum fine of £5,000 and/or six months imprisonment;
* On indictment (in the Crown Court) some offences may attract an unlimited fine and up to 10 years imprisonment. [52]

Taken from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#British_law

Also note:

A survey carried out in 2006 for the National Consumer Council indicated that over half of British adults infringe copyright law by copying and ripping music CDs, with 59% stating a belief that copying for personal use is legal.[40] However, ripping music from CDs to another format, such as MP3, is currently illegal. In 2006 The Institute for Public Policy Research called for a "public right to copy".[41] In January 2008 the government proposed changes to copyright law that would legalise copying for personal use.[42]

Exactly, that's aimed at large scale distribution, copying music from your CD'ss to mp3 is a civil offence, same with downloading things.

This is the relevant bit in this case

The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended by the Copyright and Trade Marks (Offences and Enforcement) Act 2002,[38] currently protects copyrighted materials. People who distribute and download copyrighted recordings without permission are liable to face civil actions for damages and penalties. As in the United States, it is possible to identify the IP addresses and the ISPs were obliged to disclose the name and address of the owner of each such internet account.

My bold for showing important part.

 

[Amp34]

I am fully aware of that, but what I am saying is that the cost is in the same ballpark as this, and none of those devices can do what this can. Do you not see how that would be a big advancement?

I do, and I wrote about it way back at the beginning of the thread.

Again however this will be avaliable (probably before the iPad) on the alternatives that are likely to do the core things better.

 

[ding76uk]

I do, and I wrote about it way back at the beginning of the thread.

Again however this will be avaliable (probably before the iPad) on the alternatives that are likely to do the core things better.

This is the point I have a problem understanding, what do you mean core things, and how (apart from flash which apple must sort out I agree) can these be done better on another device?

 

[Amp34]

This is the point I have a problem understanding, what do you mean core things, and how (apart from flash which apple must sort out I agree) can these be done better on another device?

Core things, internet for one. Flash is a major part of the modern internet (random things you wouldn't realise were even flash) and the lack of it is a major issue. You then have another major part, the e-reader, it has major issues, which other devices seem to have sorted.

I think you are sightly confused, I really want to like this device (I definately don't hate it), Apple will no doubt make this device more slick than the competition, maybe better looking, it's just they then go and mash it up with stupid issues that shouldn't be there, be it due to a possible oversight or because it doesn't conform to their ever closing business model (lack of flash, USB just built in and the almost certain limiting of standard formats are all in this catagory). It's a real shame and will cause me to almost certainly choose a device that may not have quite the same slickness because it has better features I want (if of course I decide a device like this would be useful).

 

[jontucker]

Core things, internet for one. Flash is a major part of the modern internet (random things you wouldn't realise were even flash) and the lack of it is a major issue. You then have another major part, the e-reader, it has major issues, which other devices seem to have sorted.

Maybe.

 

[Amp34]

If it does then it will probably be a very good internet browser, however the fact everything else points at it not having flash sort of points to it not...

Also I love one of the comments on it:

Apple's doing the right thing by not supporting Flash.

The iPhone has demonstrated that Flash support isn't really needed. Flash is proprietary and a performance-killer.

The only significant gap on the iPhone has been video sites that are Flash-based - and they should be moving to HTML 5.

I don't see Flash showing up on the iPad. It's more likely that the iPhone and the iPad are going to move advertisers and site owners to move away from Flash.

Eh? Do people really think that a few million phones (a tiny snippit of the smartphone market, and actually starting to slow and contract) and a couple of million iPads is going to affect websites considering 99% of most of their traffic will be from PC's and other smartphones that do support flash...

 

[joxby]

Eh? Do people really think that a few million phones (a tiny snippit of the smartphone market, and actually starting to slow and contract) and a couple of million iPads is going to affect websites considering 99% of most of their traffic will be from PC's and other smartphones that do support flash...

I know, head up ones own arse.
Its almost as arrogant as the "we make the best mp3 player"....as if it isn't a matter of opinion or something.
People would do well not to confuse opinion with fact.