Interfit EX150's

Kryptix

Kryptix

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I was using two of these are this 'studio' today. It's the only lighting I have used before. How are these considered? I'm looking to buy 4 lamps for my studio I'm building and these seemed to do everything I needed, but I'm very new to all of this. I liked how they went off when it detected a flash. Very cool, but I presume that's the usual for any lighting kit...

Just wanna know what you lot would go for if you were going to buy 4 lamps. I basically want 2 for the backdrop and 2 on the subject. Is this what you'd recommend when starting out? I have my 580EX II for front facing stuff.

I'm basically going for something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaQpLusxboc

Would anyone advise against this?
 
The bug has bitten you, bitten hard! :thumbs: It's addictive and very fun though isn't it!

There's a number of ways you can go to be fair although you'll want to keep costs under wraps as backgrounds, stands, modifiers and accessories will all be needed and acquired eventually.

I do things two ways, almost all indoor shoots I use speedlights and pocket wizards, I have 5 in total with a nice and gradually growing collection of modifiers (softboxes, brollies and ting).

TIP: Never mis-underestimate flash guns as light sources. Just look at Joe McNally's work, The dude is a God. They're cheaper and hugely more portable, the only con is power output and even that can be over-rided by adding more flashguns ;)

I also have a pair of Elinchrom D-lites when a bit more power is needed, anything else is begged, borrowed or hired.

I would love a Profoto rig that would be the best part of 20K.

I don't have a studio as such, I prefer location shoots as I find them far more interesting but when I do need an indoor environment = I'll blag one of my mates studio's :lol:

Gearwise, Interfit are good apparently, so are Elinchrom, Bowens and Lencarta, check out Lencarta as they have very good value deals and the chap who owns the company is also a member here too.
 
It's confusing when people start out - too many equipment choices and too many opinions to take on board.

Basically I think it comes down to this: Hotshoe flashes or studio flashes. Hotshoe flashes are perfect for a quick solution to location lighting, when getting a usable shot is all that matters. The system was designed for press photographers, who don't need to worry too much about the quality or the colour of the light and who don't need to worry too much about grainy pictures caused by having to use High ISO to compensate for low power.

The main problem with hotshoe flashes, apart from very variable colour temperature and low power, is the lack of modifiers - and it's the modifiers that really make the shot. You CAN buy or make a few bits, but the choice is limited and they don't work well compared to the ones made for studio flashes.

Moving on to studio flashes, no easy answers there either, because unless you get the more expensive battery powered versions, you'll be restricted to mains power, they are also much larger and heavier than hotshoe flashes, so not very convenient if you need to take them to other people's houses,

I think you should look at Lencarta simply because they offer very good performance at a good price - but then I would say that wouldn't I because I'm their techie -
check out Lencarta as they have very good value deals and the chap who owns the company is also a member here too.
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I wish I did own it :)
Of course, you can get cheaper brands too and I don't advise against the cheaper brands as such, but need to point out that you only get what you pay for and, apart from build quality issues, the cheaper ones tend to be very inconsistent in both their power output and colour temperature consistency - which means that shots are lit differently every time and the colour goes all over the place, which life impossibly hard for people just starting out in particular, because they can never get consistent results.

I'm not going to name names, but one very popular brand has a typical variance of 30% from one shot to the next...

Take a look at the various free intro tutorials under 'More free downloads' on my own site and at a similar article here.
There's also some info and videos here
 
Garry Edwards said:
The main problem with hotshoe flashes, apart from very variable colour temperature and low power, is the lack of modifiers - and it's the modifiers that really make the shot. You CAN buy or make a few bits, but the choice is limited and they don't work well compared to the ones made for studio flashes.
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Thankfully, this is no longer the case though.

Softboxes, umbrella's, snoots, grids and even beauty dish mods for speedlights are used globally by pro shooters with high quality results.

Read this book, it gives a vast insight to the immense capability of speedlights as mobile light sources and the diffusion and modification necessary to assist.

The only true difference between a high output flash unit and a speedlight is precisely that - output. Colour temperature variation is also an issue with higher power units too.

If you want to light a much larger area with larger subject matter and over larger distances then the pro's of high power units surface more clearly. Saying that a stealth bomber has been lit with a jaw dropping efficiency, all with 8 SB-80DX's.

Budget is a very important element and almost certainly unavoidable to consider when starting out, for the price of a beginner mains powered rig to learn the basics with, an alternative speedlight set up can be much more realistic and affordable.
Unless your lighting large scenes with fair sized subject matter, I couldn't recommend a speedlight set up enough.

As fairly well known by now, I'm a huge McNally fan, his understanding of light and his works are an inspiration to thousands of photographers around the world and he very openly prefers to use a truckload of speedlights over high power rigs. Less fuss, less assistance and less expenditure.

As I mentioned, never mis-underestimate a hot shoe flash.

Although they will never replace high power units there's not much they can't do in the right hands.
 
Tomas, I don't disagree with you - or at least not entirely.
And I don't want to take this thread off track.

But, however useful hotshoe flashes can be in mobile situations (and especially the ones picked up for next to nothing at boot sales) the fact remains that, although they CAN poduce acceptable results in the right hands, they are a failure-prone, expensive and inconsistent alternative to studio lights in any situation in which studio lights can be used.

Bear in mind too, when reading books and watching video shorts, that both books and video compress time and make things look easier and quicker than they actually are. A bit like the Apple I-phone TV commercials, showing all the wonderful things their toy can do in a flash - with a caveat at the bottom 'Steps ommitted' :)
 
In all honesty, I don't really need mobility. I'm making a spare room in my house into a studio with a big white backdrop, lots of props and so on and have a power source.

I will use my 580EX II on my 50D to fire them all at once (sensor). I did want 4 lights but I think I'm gunna have to go with 2. Will I still get recent results?
 
yes, but also no. all depends what sort of shots you want and how big the room is. inc ceiling height.

carefull bout your power choice, if you go too high power, you might not be able to turn them down enough. same as underpowered, you might not be able to turn them up enough
 
fletch5 said:
yes, but also no. all depends what sort of shots you want and how big the room is. inc ceiling height.

carefull bout your power choice, if you go too high power, you might not be able to turn them down enough. same as underpowered, you might not be able to turn them up enough
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Well, just normal portrait shots where they're standing in the middle of no-where which is all white. Maybe 12x12 room, with 'normal' ceiling height... Probably 7.5 foot? Room is being painted all white.

That's another point actually, should I go for matte white, gloss white or what?
 
Garry Edwards said:
Tomas, I don't disagree with you - or at least not entirely.
And I don't want to take this thread off track.
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To be fair, it's more than relative to the topic, were are from very different backgrounds and have opinions based on experience with the equipment we use, so, I consider a discussion based on pro's and con's for both hotshoe and studio systems beneficial, informative and helpful to fellow members.

Garry Edwards said:
Bear in mind too, when reading books and watching video shorts, that both books and video compress time and make things look easier and quicker than they actually are. A bit like the Apple I-phone TV commercials, showing all the wonderful things their toy can do in a flash - with a caveat at the bottom 'Steps ommitted'
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I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by this Garry and in all honesty I'm struggling to find the relevance:thinking:

Personally, I've found an abundance of books and educational media that describe all the information needed to understand, practice and utilize a technique or method.

I have put these into practice and experienced them for myself and that's how I form an opinion.

I can't help but find what your saying a little condescending, Iphones and the commercials used to sell them are in no way similar to books I'm referring to nor do they represent toys but methods and technique.

As for video shorts, I haven't mentioned any but are you saying there is nothing to be learnt from a short video? :shrug:

I'm certainly no 'egghead' here and I have alot to learn but these methods and techniques work and have significant value to us.
 
the 150-300 should be ok then at a guess probably 3 lights would be better. 2 for even lighting backdrop. one as a main light with a large softbox.

Tomas, i think gary is saying that the speedlights take a little longer and a little more thought to use than some of the videos imply. from the ones ive seen(dunno who it was, but in a desert using bout 30 flashes or something) it showed the setting up of the shots over 30seconds. in which case a lot was cut out of the video.... it was quite an extraordinary setup that i saw.

the only downside to the video, he seemed to be using 5-10 flashes on one stand, which could have been replaced by a high powered flash running from a battery pack with a large softbox fitted. it has been a while since i seen it and may have some details wrong though
 
Kryptix said:
That's another point actually, should I go for matte white, gloss white or what?
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Neither, white is a bad choice for a studio, medium grey is one of the better choices or black. You could consider painting it with a white silk emulsion and then draping the walls with black curtains which you can pull over to stop the light reflecting around the room whilst using it as a studio.

One light into a softbox and two on the background is not really creative lighting, but is effective.
 
What would you advise then?
 
fletch5 said:
the 150-300 should be ok then at a guess probably 3 lights would be better. 2 for even lighting backdrop. one as a main light with a large softbox.

Tomas, i think gary is saying that the speedlights take a little longer and a little more thought to use than some of the videos imply. from the ones ive seen(dunno who it was, but in a desert using bout 30 flashes or something) it showed the setting up of the shots over 30seconds. in which case a lot was cut out of the video.... it was quite an extraordinary setup that i saw.

the only downside to the video, he seemed to be using 5-10 flashes on one stand, which could have been replaced by a high powered flash running from a battery pack with a large softbox fitted. it has been a while since i seen it and may have some details wrong though
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You have got the details wrong mate, it was a demo video for new Nikon CLS features and it was McNally demonstrating it.
The large 'tree' of flashes was for two reasons, the first being the time of day and the second being that it was explaining the uses of FP mode (fast sync mode), which enables high sync speeds (shutter speeds over 1/250th) granting the option to shoot a wide open apertures while lighting with flash.

The picture should be the proof of the pudding really, the shoot was in the middle of the dessert, a little more difficult to cart generators and power packs to locations such as that wouldn't you say? plus the costs considered.

Whether studio lights or hotshoes, the principals remain the same.
There are other videos of McNally in the dessert, shooting a bunch of circus stars, a handful of speedlights are used under CLS and the results are inarguabley excellent.
No more time consuming, in fact quicker and more efficient then running cables everywhere plus you have the benefit of ITTL and controlling the speedlights behaviour via the camera, minimizing the amount of assistants and power consumption considerably.

Don't get me wrong, I understand exactly why high powered units are chosen in a given circumstance but the point is that many pro's use speedlight set ups, for both efficiency, convenience, speed and significantly lower costs. This is clearly documented and equally evident.
 
Kryptix said:
... should I go for matte white, gloss white or what?
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I'd go for black. White walls and ceiling will reflect the light everywhere, paint the walls black and use reflectors to give you much finer control.
 
Flashman said:
I'd go for black. White walls and ceiling will reflect the light everywhere, paint the walls black and use reflectors to give you much finer control.
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I agree, you can always reflect the existing light but trying to dampen unwanted light it is much harder in my opinion.

Then shift in a white background or seamless paper rig.

Luke, I wouldn't worry too much about only affording onlytwo lights at this time, you can always add more later, plus, I hope you don't mind me being straight up, I would begin by understanding the principals of using one light as key and reflecting it to provide your fill light, once you've mastered this then move onto two lights, then three etc and increase your set up that way.

Blundering in with four flashes when you are just starting out is most likely going to be stress you out.

T.
 
Yeah fair one mate, in all honesty 2 lights yesterday got annoying! It seemed to be very 'orangey' with the softbox.

I'm planning on buying a 6x3 white backdrop then attaching it to the wall.

Can you please list what else I'd need to purchase? I want two lights but I'm not sure if I'd have to buy the stands separately or what. Do they come with the umbrella and softbox or will they be purchased separately too?
 
Kryptix said:
Can you please list what else I'd need to purchase?


I'm planning on buying a 6x3 white backdrop then attaching it to the wall.
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Can't believe a pros on here asking this!:thinking: Oh well, c'est la vie.

Anyway, I'd opt for a grey background - sounds like you'll want the flexibility if you're undecided about many of the options.
 
Kryptix said:
Yeah fair one mate, in all honesty 2 lights yesterday got annoying! It seemed to be very 'orangey' with the softbox.
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The modeling light is alot warmer, that's what's giving the impression of the orange, the actual flash colour temp will be much cooler.

Kryptix said:
Can you please list what else I'd need to purchase? I want two lights but I'm not sure if I'd have to buy the stands separately or what. Do they come with the umbrella and softbox or will they be purchased separately too?
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There's alot of starter kits that contain the heads and the stands but most modifiers will have to be bought as either a separate kit or individually.

As for listing everything, yer pushin it amigo :lol:

Before spending, I'd do some more research, think about what you want to shoot, think about the subjects you'll be shooting, what kind of ideas have you got in yer head, only you know what you envisage. Only you know where you want to go.

Maybe get a book or two from amazon and do some readin, this way when you come to spend your dough, you'll know more about where it's going and where the boundaries are.

There's nothing worse than finding that you've overlooked something that leaves you high, dry and totally broke.
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
You have got the details wrong mate, the shoot was in the middle of the dessert, a little more difficult to cart generators and power packs to locations such as that wouldn't you say? plus the costs considered.

Whether studio lights or hotshoes, the principals remain the same.
There are other videos of McNally in the dessert, shooting a bunch of circus stars, a handful of speedlights are used under CLS and the results are inarguabley excellent.
No more time consuming, in fact quicker and more efficient then running cables everywhere plus you have the benefit of ITTL and controlling the speedlights behaviour via the camera, minimizing the amount of assistants and power consumption considerably.
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This is where I get confused by the claims...
Nikon CLS system - yes, very clever and no doubt useful for people who like automation. No unreliable wires, just complicated electronics which should work but sometimes don't.
But very, very expensive, definately not an economy measure - so use CLS (or the Canon copy) for a no expense spared alternative to cheap hotshoe flashes.

Or use a collection of 2nd hand manual hotshoe flashes and wire them together as necessary. Fiddly, time consuming but cheap as long as you use wires and not PWs.

Or use a battery powered generator, weighing say 4 kg - far more convenient than either of the other solutions, much more reliable, far cheaper than the CLS approach - and even the smallest will produce the power of 10 SB-800's. More to the point, it will take real light modifiers that can be used to shape and control the light, which is what lighting is all about.

It's probably true to say that for every talented photographer advertising an expensive system for a manufacturer, and for every advocate of cheap lighting solutions selling DVD's of his methods/products, there are maybe a 100 working pros quietly going about their work and using whatever they find works for them in that situation - which, depending on quality needs, power requirements and all the rest of it, can be literally any kind of lighting.
Horses for courses.
 
Garry Edwards said:
This is where I get confused by the claims...
Nikon CLS system - yes, very clever and no doubt useful for people who like automation. No unreliable wires, just complicated electronics which should work but sometimes don't.
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To wrap things up, I'm more or less convinced that you have never used the system.

If you had you wouldn't be making remarks like the above.

It sounds like you may have given speedlight systems a chance in the past, but it's been a long time since. I think most likely as you have had consistent accessibility to studio equipment.

Plus you consistanly seem to avoid that whether your using the top of the line Profoto or a SB unit, the triggering systems are identical. Taking CLS away from the discussion, the options in triggering manual light sources are the same.

Just how mobile is a 4 kilo generator to the ordinary joe like me? taking into consideration that camera bodies, glass, stands, modifiers and flashes have to be carried about too.

I think the main problem here is that your assuming that folk have a product to sell like yourself and further more, your assuming that the product isn't any good.

Yes, horses for courses Garry, but it's quite necessary to know your horses before riding those courses.
 
Tomas,
You're partly right.
To wrap things up, I'm more or less convinced that you have never used the system.
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I've used the CLS as couple of times, maybe 3. I see its uses, but probably because I have plenty of studio equipment I'm less enthusiastic about it than you. In other words, partly because of the kind of work I do and partly because I have other choices, I have much less experience of hotshoe flashes than you do. But, as lighting moderator on photo.net, I've seen countless posts from people who have relied on these systems and come unstuck. Let's face it, they're good but VERY complicated. In my experience, simplicity = reliability.
Plus you consistanly seem to avoid that whether your using the top of the line Profoto or a SB unit, the triggering systems are identical. Taking CLS away from the discussion, the options in triggering manual light sources are the same.
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I agree with you about the need to trigger the lights. Basically, people have a choice of unreliable, cheap triggering methods, messy and unreliable wires or expensive solutions like PW. PW are the perfect solution but horrendously expensive if using a collection of otherwise cheap hotshoe flashes. Portable (battery powered) or mains powered studio lights only need ONE radio receiver in most situations.
Just how mobile is a 4 kilo generator to the ordinary joe like me? taking into consideration that camera bodies, glass, stands, modifiers and flashes have to be carried about too.
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Let's say that it comes in a carrycase that can include everything except modifiers - probably less bulk and similar weight to the 10 hotshoe flashes needed to create the same power. And bear in mind that there are some portable power systems of similar size/weight that produce power to match 40 hotshoe flashes.
I think the main problem here is that your assuming that folk have a product to sell like yourself and further more, your assuming that the product isn't any
good.
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I'm not making any assumptions about you, in fact I'm sure that you honestly believe in what you're saying - but I am assuming that the people who make promotional videos for manufacturers do get paid to do so, and I'm assuming that the people who sell DVD's on hotshoe lighting techniques are making a profit from them.
And I slightly resent the suggestion that I have something to sell. I haven't mentioned any specific brand, and even if you were to link my views to the fact that I act as techie for a lighting manufacturer, I don't get paid a sales commission
 
Garry Edwards said:
Tomas,
You're partly right.
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Partly? I'd say bang on the money.

Garry Edwards said:
I've used the CLS as couple of times, maybe 3. I see its uses, but probably because I have plenty of studio equipment I'm less enthusiastic about it than you. In other words, partly because of the kind of work I do and partly because I have other choices, I have much less experience of hotshoe flashes than you do. But, as lighting moderator on photo.net, I've seen countless posts from people who have relied on these systems and come unstuck. Let's face it, they're good but VERY complicated. In my experience, simplicity = reliability.
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All of our tools and their manuals/instructions can and are perceived as complicated. Initially.
Many of these posts I assume can most likely be written off as user error, misunderstanding and unfamiliarity.
We all are guilty of it now and again and it is common to be the cause of the problem.

Garry Edwards said:
I agree with you about the need to trigger the lights.
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Well, we have no alternatives as yet, so, were stuck :D

Garry Edwards said:
Let's say that it comes in a carrycase that can include everything except modifiers - probably less bulk and similar weight to the 10 hotshoe flashes needed to create the same power. And bear in mind that there are some portable power systems of similar size/weight that produce power to match 40 hotshoe flashes.
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I take at the most 5 or 6 hotshoes with me to a job I have had little briefing on, 70% percent of the time I'm alone and traveling by public transport.

There's me and a lowepro fastpack 350 with an elinchrom stand bag ball bungeed to my backpack. Something of that size is a no go.

I take my D-Lites when I hire an assistant with wheels ;)
The only time I wil be thinly spread as it where, is if I have large subject matter to light over a large distance.
Then the big balls are called in, otherwise I get by, deliver the goods and earn my crust just fine without all that. Thanks to the teachings of those I defend, I know it's possible because it has helped me to develop and to granted me the opportunities I am grateful for.

Garry Edwards said:
I'm not making any assumptions about you, in fact I'm sure that you honestly believe in what you're saying - but I am assuming that the people who make promotional videos for manufacturers do get paid to do so, and I'm assuming that the people who sell DVD's on hotshoe lighting techniques are making a profit from them.
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I didn't think you were and I whole heartedly believe in what I'm saying because it works for so many others than me alone. I've learned from them.

As for the 'people who make promo vids', it's a shame you think like that, 'Unca Joe' is completely the polar opposite, he's the sincere, genuine article.

Maybe look at him a little closer, read a little more and look a little deeper. He's an egoless, insatiable shutter bug with a relentless encouraging nature, who openly admits he's still learning. There truly is nothing to be suspicious about.

Garry Edwards said:
And I slightly resent the suggestion that I have something to sell. I haven't mentioned any specific brand, and even if you were to link my views to the fact that I act as techie for a lighting manufacturer, I don't get paid a sales commission
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Then I respectfully withdraw my comment and apologize. :thumbs:
 
I can see both sides of this.
I can use Nikon CLS although I only have 1 speedlight. It's basically useless for a small home studio environment, the off camera flash is triggered by the popup flash which will make the model blink. For objects that are not alive, or at least don't have eyes, it's very useful. One other problem is getting close to the subject you always get some spill from the trigger although I found out yesterday there is a little plastic blocker available.

I bought an Interfit 150 kit, which was great fun, but both lights have now blown up, the 2nd one in a pretty spectacular cloud of smoke, I guess it may have just popped a capacitor. I think they seem the best value for a reason, build quality doesn't appear the best to me and mine haven't lasted.

Gary, you have mentioned Lencarta in this thread, I don't have a problem with that and will take a look in a mo.

Kryptix, I think 12x12 is pushing it a little for space, unless you have no plans on doing full length, ever. And blown out white BG with correctly exposed subjects is VERY difficult with just 2 lights.
 
It sounds that what you are trying to achieve is exactly what i'm doing at the moment i.e 12x12ft room 2x 150w interfit lights on an infinity (curve,cove) & 1 or 2 lights on the subject. So, interfit lights have been fine so far ( 10 months old ) but you can't turn the ready beep off :bang:. Not easy to get the infinity look right in camera because your subject will be too close to the background & you will lose definition around arms etc & light from the background will leak around the sides of the subjects face if you have the background lights too high, i have to rely on pp to get this right. Focal length can be a pain if you want sat on the floor type shots in a small room ( fat legs etc. ) All shots on my site that have a white background have been taken in this small room, feel free to have a gander to see if these are the type of shots you are thinking of & feel free to give me a shout if you think there may be other problems i haven't mentioned. good luck :thumbs:
 
Not easy to get the infinity look right in camera because your subject will be too close to the background & you will lose definition around arms etc & light from the background will leak around the sides of the subjects face if you have the background lights too high, i have to rely on pp to get this right.
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Small spaces make any kind of controlled lighting more difficult than a larger space, but simply using the right type of light modifiers, positioning them properly, lighting the background evenly and getting the exposure spot on makes any kind of PP unnecessary.
Please see this video short
 
corbystock said:
It sounds that what you are trying to achieve is exactly what i'm doing at the moment i.e 12x12ft room 2x 150w interfit lights on an infinity (curve,cove) & 1 or 2 lights on the subject. So, interfit lights have been fine so far ( 10 months old ) but you can't turn the ready beep off :bang:. Not easy to get the infinity look right in camera because your subject will be too close to the background & you will lose definition around arms etc & light from the background will leak around the sides of the subjects face if you have the background lights too high, i have to rely on pp to get this right. Focal length can be a pain if you want sat on the floor type shots in a small room ( fat legs etc. ) All shots on my site that have a white background have been taken in this small room, feel free to have a gander to see if these are the type of shots you are thinking of & feel free to give me a shout if you think there may be other problems i haven't mentioned. good luck :thumbs:
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That's very helpful.

Can you please link me to everything you have bought for your studio? I imagine it'd just be a standard lighting kit and a white backdrop?
 
Kryptix said:
...or how about something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200346479451
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That looks very good value for money although it does not mention any stands, it does state all you need.

The kit as described may be slightly too powerful for what you require, 3x 600w/s heads that only have a three stop range (full, 1/2, 1/4 & 1/8 may require the use of some ND gels to lower the output, and in a 12ft x 12ft room you may find you are working at really small apertures, this is not a good thing, especially on a crop sensor.

When I have shot portraits in my front room, I have often had my 400BX heads at or near the lowest settings which in their case went to 1/16th power, the heads above are half as powerful again and only go to 1/8th power.

The kit does include some useful accessories though and you would only really need to add in the future the following modifiers and accessories:

If you want a well lit background:

2x BG stands
2x Background Reflectors

And when finances and creativity require it:

Another head (I often use four or even five heads for portraits), (4 is good as it allows either, 2 on the BG, 1 main and 1 fill, or, 1 on the BG (graduated effect), 1 main, 1 fill and 1 hairlight.

Beauty Dish
Reflector with a variety of honeycombs

Oh and don't forget to budget for a flash meter, you can set up lighting without one, but it is a lot easier and more accurate if you have one, especially when using multiple lights and setting the ratios between them!
 
So should I stick with my original idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaQpLusxboc

Can you tell me why that wouldn't work? I believe it's 4x EX150's.

It'd cost me about £450-£500 for the lights, with all the stands and modifiers...

I liked them when using them 2 days ago at this 'studio' but I can see why the beep would get annoying (you can't turn it off). I'm sure I could open 'em up and sort that out though. :lol:

The only thing I'm worried about is how intermittent they are. Someone mentioned earlier that a 'well known brand' outputs different levels of light 30% of the time or something? That's the only thing that's stopping me.
 
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