Interesting article about computer literacy levels

[Dale_tem]

http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/


Overall everyone needs to have a better understanding of computers.

 

[onomatopoeia]

I agree with him about a lot of things, a lot of people that use computers in their daily lives cannot use a computer. Making a powerpoint or changing the font in Word is not using a computer. It does not indicate computer literacy. I disagree with him about that WPA2 password thing, you use a cat5e cable because wireless is a rubbish way to run a network. Network security and integrity is much more important than the inconvenience of having to run a bit of cable around the skirting board - anyone that thinks different doesn't deserve a working network

I've been saying all those things for years. But we live in a country where people revel in their ignorance (for a commonplace example, all the people that throw a tantrum like a three year old when it is pointed out that their use of grammar is so bad that what they have written is actually complete nonsense) and when it comes to computers never more so.

I used to help people with IT stuff, my patience for the disdain with which the people with knowledge that they rely on are treated ("oh I'm not a nerd, I can't understand what a DLL / IP address / command prompt / etc is, they should make this easy!!" and so on) ran out in the end. I tend to refer them to O'Reilly publishing and suggest they start with the TCP/IP book if they want to fix their problem connecting to the Internet, because once they understand TCP/IP they can probably fix it on their own.


What he said about the changes to ICT that Gove is bringing in is true. It's interesting (to me) that when I've mentioned this to people in industry they think that schools shouldn't teach genuine computer science as that's a waste of time for most people, but should continue to teach Microsoft Office, because that's useful in the workplace, whereas if they want a career in IT or programming those interested can teach themselves until they go to university. When I press them further they are unable to explain why we bother teaching History, Geography, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and so on in schools as none of those are used in the workplace either - the only way I can see it is that they regard computer science as not like any other science, but more like plumbing or being an electrician so they want schools to provide workplace training and not education. Ignorance, again.

Yes, this stuff makes me cross . Given the importance of computers in society now, the attitudes of a large part of the population to learning about them and to the people that can understand them properly is astonishingly short sighted.

 

[KIPAX]

I explain to my kids.. if they can understand how it works.. they can use it better.. just knowing how email works.. that its not magic knowing its just folders on hard drives.. how websites work and whats stored on the computer... I try not to get too geeky wiht them..I dont go into the nitty gritty.. just the concept but like I say.. if they understand how it works then they can sort problems easier..

 

[neil_g]

I gave up reading halfway, what a patronising article.

Not everyone needs to know the equivalent of a 1st line tech knowledge.

Although for what it's worth my managers 3 and 7 year olds know more than most adults I've dealt with by the sounds of it.

 

[mid_gen]

Most of the problem is with smartass tech people who are incapable of producing tech that 'just works'....

 

[neil_g]

You have to wonder what would happen to the IT industry if everyone knew how to reinstall os, upgrade hardware, etc etc.

Support roles for example are already ridiculously low paid and have too many people (often those who just "know a bit about computers") looking for the work.

Then you have the impact on independent small computer repair shops.

 

[Jayst84]

I gave up reading halfway, what a patronising article.

Same, the author comes across as a bit of a tit.

And 'kids' most definitely can use computers. Spend a day in San Francisco and see how many people under 35 you see working everyday creating the things the author then teaches people how to use at school.

 

[stevelmx5]

I only need to read the last few paragraphs along with his 'hilarious' suggestion about ringing the President because the Internet is down (wow, he's obviously a popular guy...) to see why he's so patronising. Obviously hates mainstream tech that works!

"Windows and OSX

USE LINUX. Okay, so it’s not always practical, but most Linux distros really get you to learn how to use a computer. Everyone should at least have a play around at some point in their lives. If you’re not going to use Linux then if you’re on OSX have a play around in the terminal, it really is fun and you get to feel like a hacker, as does the Command Line or PowerShell in Windows.

Mobile

This ones tricky. iOS is a lost cause, unless you jail-break, and Android isn’t much better. I use Ubuntu-Touch, and it has possibilities. At least you feel like the mobile phone is yours. Okay, so I can’t use 3G, it crashes when I try to make phone calls and the device runs so hot that when in my jacket pocket it seconds as an excellent nipple-warmer, but I can see the potential."

I'm a Wintel server engineer so know several people like this!

Steve

 

[viv1969]

I gave up reading halfway, what a patronising article.

Not everyone needs to know the equivalent of a 1st line tech knowledge.

Although for what it's worth my managers 3 and 7 year olds know more than most adults I've dealt with by the sounds of it.

I agree with this.
Just because I can drive a car doesn't mean I have to know the complete ins and outs of the internal combustion engine.
Man's a pillock.

 

[Russ77]

I'm far from a techno geek (IMO) but I did train in PC hardware maintenance so am quite capable of taking a PC apart and rebuilding if needs be. I'm also happy to dive into system settings/control panel and dig around to fix problems.

From my friends and family's perspective I am a techno geek I'm probably the first person they call when they run into problems with their PC/Laptop, phone, TV, Sky box, Surround Sound/Hifi etc

My attempts to fix are usually met with gratitude and I'm normally rewarded with alcohol (which is fine by me) but when I try and explain what the problem is, what caused it, how I fixed it and how they could prevent it from happening I'm met with a glazed look.........

Some people just have no interest whatsoever in the "nuts & bolts" of the devices they use everyday. I suppose it's just my nature to be interest in how things work. I can remember spending hours in my granddad's "CB" room where he had stacks of CB Radios and other gear, he'd fix my toys for me and I'd watch and learn. My other granddad fixed garage equipment for a living (compressors, lifts etc) and he'd let us play in his shed and teach us how to use tools safely.

It's probably not much of a suprise that I became a "techno geek" and my brother became a plumber (well... he can pretty much turn his hand to anything). I wonder if the whole "health & safety" thing now means that kids aren't exposed to the innards of an electrical toy that's broken while it's being fixed or not allowed to drill holes/saw an old piece of wood in their granddad's shed.

My brother gets my nephew involved with everything, sometimes takes him to work with him. From the age of 2 Brad could use a screwdriver with ease.... so much ease the at the age of for he used his toy chest to get to the light switch in his bedroom and removed it from the wall (don't worry.... all screwdrivers were removed from the house at that point )

Now I don't know a lot about cars and I'm useless with spanners but when my mate fixes my car for me, I always trying to pick up what's what under the bonnet. If nothing else it can stop you having the wool pulled over your eyes

 

[DorsetDude]

I agree with this.
Just because I can drive a car doesn't mean I have to know the complete ins and outs of the internal combustion engine.

A little basic knowledge is always helpful though. I mean you should be able to tell if the problems in your grub nuts for instance, or is it all coming up through the donkey flange? And clogging up your St Elmos pipe trench.

©B Bailey.

 

[MartynK]

Most people just use computers, and don't have any particular interest in how they work. That's fine, and the same applies to cars, cameras, and a lot of other things.

I don't mind trying to learn enough about things to fix them myself, but that's driven by saving money, not any great desire to understand them. I probably wouldn't bother if I could easily afford to pay someone else to do it.

 

[Dale_tem]

Most people just use computers, and don't have any particular interest in how they work. That's fine, and the same applies to cars, cameras, and a lot of other things.

Not really

I have a nephew (in law) who drove for 2 weeks with no brake pads, it wasn't till someone else got in the car and asked him what the noise was.

There is a certain level of knowledge you should have about the machine you are using.

If people understood how a car works, the limits, the dangers etc. there would be less crashes I feel.

Instead people float around in a bubble of ignorance assuming everything is fine.

 

[MartynK]

Not really

I have a nephew (in law) who drove for 2 weeks with no brake pads, it wasn't till someone else got in the car and asked him what the noise was.

There is a certain level of knowledge you should have about the machine you are using.

If people understood how a car works, the limits, the dangers etc. there would be less crashes I feel.

Instead people float around in a bubble of ignorance assuming everything is fine.

Dale, I don't understand how anyone who is competent to drive can fail to realise that there's something seriously wrong if the brake pads are worn out. Braking will be severly impacted, and any strange noises in a car are usually a sign that there's a problem. You don't have to understand how the brake system works to realise this. I suspect that most accidents are caused by carelessness/recklessness, rather than mechanical failure too.

 

[Dale_tem]

Dale, I don't understand how anyone who is competent to drive can fail to realise that there's something seriously wrong if the brake pads are worn out. Braking will be severly impacted, and any strange noises in a car are usually a sign that there's a problem. You don't have to understand how the brake system works to realise this. I suspect that most accidents are caused by carelessness/recklessness, rather than mechanical failure too.

I don't understand it either, but it happens. I know someone who drove for 15 miles on a flat tyre, got home realized it was flat and then drove to the garage and got upset that tyre couldn't be fixed.

Isn't that the same with IT, no idea why nothing is working when you get a warning saying there is 1Mb of hard disk space left on the C drive (I have helped an IT Technician in this situation in charge of a school network). Or the internet not working and seeing you aren't connected to a network?

It comes down to recognizing the signs and knowing what to do.

 

[viv1969]

A little basic knowledge is always helpful though.

and the same applies to cars, cameras, and a lot of other things.

There is a certain level of knowledge you should have about the machine you are using.
.

Dale, I don't understand how anyone who is competent to drive can fail to realise that there's something seriously wrong if the brake pads are worn out. .

I totally agree all round. Enough knowledge for the day to day running and maintenance. However, is it neccessary for everyone who drives to recognise immediately when the head gasket's gone pop, for example? Should we all have the knowledge to be able to drop and strip the engine to sort it?

Same applies to computing.

 

[big soft moose]

its probably sufficient that the driver is aware that theres something wrong with the car and they shouldn't keep driving (typical symptoms of HGF include over heating, engine management light, milky oil, the car being a rover.. )

Similarly its handy if a computer user recognises that their computer is borked and doesnt keep repeatedly pressing the mouse button - because after all if the buton you are clicking on doesnt respond you need to press the mouse button harder in case its stuck ( someone i used to work with thought that in all seriousness)

 

[neil_g]

biggest issue i come across is that you tell people what has caused the issue and how not to let it happen again and they don't listen.

the amount of tickets i get on a day to day basis that are just repeats of ones the previous week that they could/should have dealt with themselves..

 

[big soft moose]

biggest issue i come across is that you tell people what has caused the issue and how not to let it happen again and they don't listen.

the amount of tickets i get on a day to day basis that are just repeats of ones the previous week that they could/should have dealt with themselves..

Mind you i could say the same in reverse - we've got a computer in our office that hasnt been defragged or even had temporary files and cookies ceared since it was new in early 2010 - 'strangely' its slowed down quite a lot in that period.

Us minions without admin rights can't access the control panel to perform these simple tasks - but when this is pointed out to IT they come up with other useful solutions like " have you tried turning it off and back on again" and " may be it needs its browser software updating" ( It probably does - but i strongly doubt that the browser software is causing it to run slowly when its not on line)

 

[new2me]

Biggest issue is IT guys acting all aloof and 'minions' who think they are being patronised, not actually being as knowledgeable as they think they are

 

[big soft moose]

or indeed IT guys not being as knowledgable as they think they are ... we had an incident last year where one of the sites lost broadband connectivity

IT came out and wrongly diagnosed that it was the router

new router - no broadband

then they replaced the cables - no broadband

then they disassembled the computers faffed about and reassembled them - no broadband

then they decided it was a BT issue - Bt said it wasnt, more faffing about , still no broadband

then the site supervisors 21 y/o daughter came home and said " have they checked the ADSL filter ?" - she swapped the filter for a spare and voila, broadband

I should have picked up on that myself, but it never occured to me that IT wouldnt have checked the filter before they diagnosed that we needed a new router :bang:

 

[neil_g]

Mind you i could say the same in reverse - we've got a computer in our office that hasnt been defragged or even had temporary files and cookies ceared since it was new in early 2010 - 'strangely' its slowed down quite a lot in that period.

Us minions without admin rights can't access the control panel to perform these simple tasks - but when this is pointed out to IT they come up with other useful solutions like " have you tried turning it off and back on again" and " may be it needs its browser software updating" ( It probably does - but i strongly doubt that the browser software is causing it to run slowly when its not on line)

we've got machines that havent ever been defragged.. it shouldnt be necessary these days likewise temporary files unless theyre causing a specific issue.

im not defending stupid IT staff though. trust me theyre just as infuriating to other IT people..

 

[big soft moose]

we've got machines that havent ever been defragged.. it shouldnt be necessary these days likewise temporary files unless theyre causing a specific issue.

fair enough - but if you were called about a machine that had slowed down to the point where each day its operator can start it up and litteraly make a cup of tea before it boots as far as the log on screen and then after loging on, go to the toilet , and check her phone messages before it loads to the desktop.....you presumably wouldnt give the wonderfully helpful advice " sometimes machines get hot... just turn it off then on again and it will be fine "

I may only be a simple minion but my suspicion is either the hdd is on its way out or otherwise borked and/ or the case is litterally full of crap (The fan runs virtually constantly and the casing is hot to the touch within 30 minuites of operation )

 

[viv1969]

I may only be a simple minion ...........

May?

 

[neil_g]

fair enough - but if you were called about a machine that had slowed down to the point where each day its operator can start it up and litteraly make a cup of tea before it boots as far as the log on screen and then after loging on, go to the toilet , and check her phone messages before it loads to the desktop.....you presumably wouldnt give the wonderfully helpful advice " sometimes machines get hot... just turn it off then on again and it will be fine "

probably not, depends who the user was :nuts:

like i say, some IT staff are idiots.

 

[big soft moose]

May?

Someone is going to get the back of her legs slapped

 

[onomatopoeia]

I totally agree all round. Enough knowledge for the day to day running and maintenance. However, is it neccessary for everyone who drives to recognise immediately when the head gasket's gone pop, for example? Should we all have the knowledge to be able to drop and strip the engine to sort it?

Same applies to computing.

Head gasket failure if left unattended will result in the temperature gauge hitting the stop, or going to zero (as there's no water left for the sensor to sense the temperature of) with possibly a James Bond type smokescreen of steam at the back at the same time as the water gets spewed out of the exhaust. Anyone that can drive a car should recognise all of those as being indicators of something bad happening that needs immediate attention, even if they cannot fix it themselves.

We shouldn't all require the knowledge to strip and rebuild an engine, unless we want to, or we don't want to pay someone to do it for us. We should all have the knowledge to check tyre pressures, coolant and oil levels and top up as needed though, so basic routine maintenance tasks to ensure it keeps running correctly. On the subject of payment, people know I am a programmer (not an IT support person) and ask me to sort out their computers when something goes wrong (malware or a botched installation typically, but can be setting up a website, or diagnosing network problems and so on), usually for nothing, because I "know about computers". They also know I work on cars as part of my hobby and have been doing so for 25 years. Few ask me to undertake any work on their cars without first offering some sort of recompense for my time (which if I decide to help them I won't accept anyway, but it's nice to be offered. I've probably upset all the professional mechanics now by admitting to working for nothing as I'm destroying their livelihood ).


It remains my contention that more children will find their way into careers that require computer science than need (for example) geography, so the school education system should give a grounding in actual computer science as a basis for further study at university, just as is done in traditional subjects, and not in how to use powerpoint.

 

[Dale_tem]

fair enough - but if you were called about a machine that had slowed down to the point where each day its operator can start it up and litteraly make a cup of tea before it boots as far as the log on screen and then after loging on, go to the toilet , and check her phone messages before it loads to the desktop.....you presumably wouldnt give the wonderfully helpful advice " sometimes machines get hot... just turn it off then on again and it will be fine "

I may only be a simple minion but my suspicion is either the hdd is on its way out or otherwise borked and/ or the case is litterally full of crap (The fan runs virtually constantly and the casing is hot to the touch within 30 minuites of operation )

I would look at roaming profiles, network card and other things

We had them here and someone used Picasso and it had a few GB database file it put in the profile it had to copy up and down each time it logged on and off.

Just use redirected folders

This is where knowledge of a PC and knowledge of a domain come in. Someone who can fix PCs becomes so out of depth it is untrue, but they don't realise it.

 

[Dale_tem]

It remains my contention that more children will find their way into careers that require computer science than need (for example) geography, so the school education system should give a grounding in actual computer science as a basis for further study at university, just as is done in traditional subjects, and not in how to use powerpoint.

How about life, not just a career

 

[omens]

I agree with this.
Just because I can drive a car doesn't mean I have to know the complete ins and outs of the internal combustion engine.
Man's a pillock.

No, but you should know something more than just starting the car and driving it. You should (IMO) know about tyre pressures, oil levels and topping up, how to change a wheel and where the tools are, how to change bulbs (where appropriate as it's ridiculous in some cars) etc. Now some of these things have been introduced into the driving test, but they should also be part of a regular regime.

Some people just have no interest whatsoever in the "nuts & bolts" of the devices they use everyday.

Agree. I don't need to know exactly how a modern TV works to be able to set it up to use it, or to fault-find a loose connection etc.

or indeed IT guys not being as knowledgable as they think they are ...

Lol reminds me of what happened a few weeks back. We were going to have a new server installed at work. We tried to arrange it so I was present at the installation. The IT guy kept mucking us about with times/dates so we had to tell him that we needed a fixed date so I could be there. He reassured the bosses that I didn't need to be there and all he would do is unpack the server. Turns out he's managed to disconnect one of the computers from the network by giving the server the same IP address, and the manager who was present didn't manage to get all the details of what was going on so we couldn't access the server!

When I was a kid, we got a computer (Pentium 100MHz with Windows 95!). I would spend ages on it, knowing its innards, playing around with memmaker to maximise base memory (for DOS games) as well as playing around with Windows. Loved tweaking files and settings, as well as tidying up the start menu. Not many people bother with that these days.

 

[viv1969]

No, but you should know something more than just starting the car and driving it. You should (IMO) know about tyre pressures, oil levels and topping up, how to change a wheel and where the tools are, how to change bulbs (where appropriate as it's ridiculous in some cars) etc. Now some of these things have been introduced into the driving test, but they should also be part of a regular regime.

Read the later post.....I do know and I explained further. :shake:

 

[nilagin]

No, but you should know something more than just starting the car and driving it. You should (IMO) know about tyre pressures, oil levels and topping up, how to change a wheel and where the tools are, how to change bulbs (where appropriate as it's ridiculous in some cars) etc. Now some of these things have been introduced into the driving test, but they should also be part of a regular regime.

I very rarely bother to check under the bonnet. Car doesn't burn oil, doesn't use up water, and tyre pressures are rarely checked, but when I do bother, air pressure is the same. Modern cars rarely need checking that regularly anymore. I did exactly the same with my previous car, that covered 269k miles it was rusty bodywork that made me change it, mechanically it was sound.

 

[omens]

Read the later post.....I do know and I explained further. :shake:

Wasn't targetted specifically at you.

I very rarely bother to check under the bonnet. Car doesn't burn oil, doesn't use up water, and tyre pressures are rarely checked, but when I do bother, air pressure is the same. Modern cars rarely need checking that regularly anymore. I did exactly the same with my previous car, that covered 269k miles it was rusty bodywork that made me change it, mechanically it was sound.

My car uses more oil when driven harder, so I will top it up. Might not be frequent eg once every few months, but it stops me from running out of oil in the middle of nowhere. I always check air pressures and top up because it affects handling. I've had to top up coolant once in five years. I top up washer fluid on maybe a monthly basis because I go through so much of it.

I think the old "weekly check" isn't really necessary but would always advocate regular (maybe even just monthly) checks, and definitely before any lengthy journeys.

 

[srichards]

fair enough - but if you were called about a machine that had slowed down to the point where each day its operator can start it up and litteraly make a cup of tea before it boots as far as the log on screen and then after loging on, go to the toilet , and check her phone messages before it loads to the desktop.....you presumably wouldnt give the wonderfully helpful advice " sometimes machines get hot... just turn it off then on again and it will be fine "

I may only be a simple minion but my suspicion is either the hdd is on its way out or otherwise borked and/ or the case is litterally full of crap (The fan runs virtually constantly and the casing is hot to the touch within 30 minuites of operation )

Or its got a virus of some kind. Malware can slow anything down to a crawl. Overheating is likely along with the failed/failing hdd.

 

[big soft moose]

its behind a work firewall and virus protection so that shouldn't be possible - especially as its networked and no other machines are affected

 

[neil_g]

its behind a work firewall and virus protection so that shouldn't be possible - especially as its networked and no other machines are affected

Infected program's on USB sticks are always a good one, thank god for enterprise av and device control..

And contrary to what Hollywood says most malware doesn't infect an entire network at the drop of a hat

 

[KIPAX]

Unless things have improved....the first thing I learnt was.... there is no such thing as secure.. only varying levels of security..

 

[Dale_tem]

Unless things have improved....the first thing I learnt was.... there is no such thing as secure.. only varying levels of security..

Wrong

A secure machine has no cables connected, not even power. The trouble starts once you turn it on.