Insurance, just had to cancel mine, who to go to now?

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PeteStewardson

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Just got off the phone with E&L about renewing my insurance. Now I've got the D3 etc I needed to increase the value, but I noticed when I was reading the policy wording something that worried me...

Under exclusions...
" Theft from vehicles if the equipment is not out of sight and locked in an enclosed boot or compartment that is not accessible by removal of a shelf or partition."

Now I always assumed this meant estate cars, but wasn't sure so I asked about hatchbacks. The woman said she would check with her manager and put me on hold. She came back a few minutes later and told me hatchbacks were excluded as well. :eek: AND saloon cars that have an accessible boot through fold down seats :eek:

So basically E&L's insurance policy on theft from a vehicle is useless on probably 99.5% of cars on the road, as even saloons these days have split folding seats! SO anyone paying for vehicle cover through E&L should be very careful about paying the extra in future.

Needless to say I won't be renewing, which leaves me looking for a new insurer. So far I've got Photoguard, Glover & Howe, and Towergate to check. Anyone got any other suggestions?

Pete
 
I'm after the Liability insurance as part of the deal, I need pro insurance for that unfortunatley. Also I need about £7k worth of insurance and my household insurer only goes to £3000 max out of the house.
 
You need to go to a company that deals in pro Insurance, Try Pavilion or Photogaurd for a start. The both do public liability insurance
 
icecavern said:
Just got off the phone with E&L about renewing my insurance. Now I've got the D3 etc I needed to increase the value, but I noticed when I was reading the policy wording something that worried me...

Under exclusions...
" Theft from vehicles if the equipment is not out of sight and locked in an enclosed boot or compartment that is not accessible by removal of a shelf or partition."

Now I always assumed this meant estate cars, but wasn't sure so I asked about hatchbacks. The woman said she would check with her manager and put me on hold. She came back a few minutes later and told me hatchbacks were excluded as well. :eek: AND saloon cars that have an accessible boot through fold down seats :eek:

So basically E&L's insurance policy on theft from a vehicle is useless on probably 99.5% of cars on the road, as even saloons these days have split folding seats! SO anyone paying for vehicle cover through E&L should be very careful about paying the extra in future.

Needless to say I won't be renewing, which leaves me looking for a new insurer. So far I've got Photoguard, Glover & Howe, and Towergate to check. Anyone got any other suggestions?

Pete
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Yep, this happened to me, when I got some gear stolen from the 'boot' section of my hatchback, I created a stink with E&L and they paid out.

Their literature is very misleading, and a couple of years ago there was an article in one of the photomags highlighting this anomaly (or rip-off)

I cancelled my insurance with them and went to photoguard, who I've been happy with since, although they have been taken over by another company, so can't predict if they will remain good?

BTW, it cost me £213 per annum for 6.5K of insurance , no voluntary excess and no public liability cover.
 
I don't know if it would help or be applicable but what if you locked it in something like a dog crate? Most of these are fixed into the car in some way to stop them moving.

What are E and L like for photographic equipment insurance.

I know their reputation regarding payments on dog insurance (and would go elsewhere) but not for anything else
 
Well the reports I'm hearing on forums seems to indicate E&L are nothing but crooks, doesn't sound like they pay out unless legal action is taken. G&H seem to have good mentions on here so will try them tomorrow.
 
Looks like I need to cancel my E and L also. B*&gger.
 
I've just read my policy conditions and it states:
'When in a vehicle any insured items must be in a locked and seperately secure boot or compartment away from from the passenger sections.'

But continues to say:

'Estate cars containing insured items must have a factory-fitted cover in place and in use, which obscures the items from view.'

So, surely that covers cars with parcel shelves and fold down seats? Like my Range Rover.
Is it an estate or a car or a tank? :-)

I'll phone them tomorrow...
 
There are about 4 contradictory statements in the conditions, but basically it boils down to no cover unless it's in a boot with no access from the cabin by any means, and the boot locked separate to the central locking of the car. Basically some older BMW saloons and I think someone mentioned Rolls Royces. If I had a Roller, I wouldn't worry about a few k's worth of camera kit insurance...
 
If the terms are that vague I'd change policies. Better to know your covered rather than think you are.... only to find out!!!!!!
 
Chappers said:
If the terms are that vague I'd change policies. Better to know your covered rather than think you are.... only to find out!!!!!!
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This is exactly why I cancelled with them. And I gave them the exact reasons behind it. If enough people cancel over the vague T&C they'll have to rethink them or give up Professional insurance. Well I can hope anyway.
 
I`m in the market for insurance and looked at their exclusions, they seemed to have too many for my taste. There was a get out option wherever you looked.

Check out their security requirements and then put them next to photoguard`s.

PG were nearly double the price, but what`s the point in paying for something that`ll never pay out if needed.

I`ll check out those other two as well.
 
I have professional insurance (£10,000 cover + £2M PL). I'll dig out the details if you're interested.

icecavern said:
There are about 4 contradictory statements in the conditions, but basically it boils down to no cover unless it's in a boot with no access from the cabin by any means, and the boot locked separate to the central locking of the car. Basically some older BMW saloons and I think someone mentioned Rolls Royces.
Click to expand...

................or a Land Rover Defender, just like the one I use :)
 
Having gone digital with new gear over the summer I looked at insurance but found the t&c for vehicles impossibly restrictive, basically impossible for the insurance to be valid and I use one of these for the camera gear, its bolted onto one of the wheelboxes in the back of the landrover 110 :

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...ocation=//catalog01/en_GB&fh_secondid=9380960

about 3mm thick steel safe, just big enough for the camera bag, only problem is the door rattles a bit (got to get some draught excluder or car door trim for it)
 
just cancelled mine with e&l after being knocked back for a tripod and lens, in the same boat looking for a company that dosn't rip you off with a genuine claim
gwh
 
Here's the wording from photoguard insurance regarding vehicles

Insurance.JPG
 
Interesting thread, need to arrange insurance and E&L were on my shortlist, not anymore!

Cheers to the OP for raising this
 
Wookie said:
Having gone digital with new gear over the summer I looked at insurance but found the t&c for vehicles impossibly restrictive, basically impossible for the insurance to be valid and I use one of these for the camera gear, its bolted onto one of the wheelboxes in the back of the landrover 110 :

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...ocation=//catalog01/en_GB&fh_secondid=9380960

about 3mm thick steel safe, just big enough for the camera bag, only problem is the door rattles a bit (got to get some draught excluder or car door trim for it)
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My insurance just states 'out of sight' so I have all my kit in the rear of my Defender (which has it's rear windows covered), in racking/on shelves. When I used my Disco, it was stored in the boot section, under the standard rear cover. My insurance were more than happy with that (cameras, lenses and laptops need to be removed after 9pm if unattended, everything else can stay).

I find my Defender the perfect motor for the job, I wouldn't have anything else (better than my Disco when I used that).

mast5.jpg
 
hmm photoguards "Locked Luggage Compartment" would that include the boot? I firth thought glove box, but thats isnt a luggage compartment, so can only think it means the boot.
 
I fitted the safe for secure storage for the family while on holiday (wife's handbag, cameras, kids' gameboy or whatever while camping, out shopping, on the beach or walking) it wasnt done for camera insurance, but because the security on 20+ year old landrover doors is minimal. The insurance clauses still make it useless for camera insurance, anybody with half a brain can get in an older landrover without "Forced and Violent Entry"

don't you have trouble with the 110 swaying on its springs ?
 
I have a padlock on the outside of the rear door (plus I never leave it anywhere dodgy anyway).

I don't have any problem with swaying, though I do get in and out carefully when I have a full erection (oooh matron). I need to get in the back when working as I have a small studio set up in there: desk, chair, laptop, controls to control the camera head etc.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
hmm photoguards "Locked Luggage Compartment" would that include the boot? I firth thought glove box, but thats isnt a luggage compartment, so can only think it means the boot.
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Further down covers hatchbacks etc, and I remember ringing them to verify that gear locked in the 'boot' part (even though the back seats could not be 'locked' in place), they confirmed that it was covered in this instance.

After nearly getting my fingers burnt by E&L I wanted to make doubly sure.

BTW, I see Amateur Photography still distributes leaflets advertising E&L even after all the negative publicity around this company, obviously filthy lucre is more important than integrity, or am I being too cynical?
 
All sounds a load of crap to me;) lets face it if you can get in to a car you can normaly get in to the boot.:lol:
 
I've just had a long conversation (about 40 minutes) with some people at E & L http://www.eandl.co.uk/ I think I ended up speaking to the boss; at least the highest boss they were willing to pass me to

The result is that I will be terminating my insurance with them after first finding alternative insurance elsewhere. what I did confirm form them is that the insurance will be invalid in a standard production

Estate car :rules:
Hatchback :rules:
Saloon – unless there is no way to access the boot from within the car. :rules:
Further that a secure strong box fitted in any of the above would also not be covered.:shrug:
In short they do not insure kit in cars unless built like a tank.:bang:

I asked if they could suggest any cars that they would cover and they said that there were many cars on the market – so I said name just one – long silence. I said sorry surly there must be ONE car you are happy insure :bang:They said they were unable to suggest of model of car.:bonk:

When I questioned this wording http://www.eandl.co.uk/pdf/security-requirements/eg
and questioned that section 6 contradicts section 8 I was told that section 8 was to be removed,:clap: I said OK fine can you send me that in writing – long silence, sorry I said was that a yes you would send it in writing to me, no o i thought not (so why say it????) I was then passed to another more senior person.

When I was speaking to "the boss” I said that the policy was misleading because they have a policy that does not fit with many (if any) production cars – the response was that the people should read the policy carefully and if not happy cancel.

You can find all their contact info at
http://www.eandl.co.uk/contact-us/

If you want to find out more…
 
I had the self same conversation with E & L today. Ended up telling them to stick it. I spoke to 3 different people. There isn't an estate car built that I know of (I'm in the motor trade) that doesn't have fold down seats. My sixty grand Range Rover with laminated windows isn't covered! Because the seats fold down! Of course they bl**dy fold down. thats the idea of it!!! I use the space! Its completely mental. I've asked for my premiums back on the grounds that the policy isn't worth the paper its written on. A complete con.
They insure caravans. How the hell they do that is beyond me. One of the most insecure vehicles going! I own one of those too. No hope!
I feel so much better now. Rant over. :-)

Moral of our stories: Don't touch E & L unless you read and understand the conditions completely (which is standard practice of course). BUT be aware that there aren't many cars that are covered.


Kev.
 
Well that makes 3 of us in the last 2 days that have cancelled then.
 
I did warn them that they may get a few phone calls.....


I hope they take the time to read forums.



You gotta laugh. They have an advert at the top of this thread.
 
I'm lucky enough not to need public liability so i'm covered under my house policy but the wording states that the maximum they will pay from a theft from a motor vehicle is £1000 as long as the item was in a looked boot and violence is used to gain entry. I pretty much consider that as no insurance so never leave any camera equipment in my car but at least my insurance company spells out the situation unlike E&L!

I'm suprised insurance companies haven't caught onto the photographic market more. You see many insurance companies making great efforts to be friendly with both motorbike and car forums / clubs. Whilst the photographic market isn't anywhere as big I'd expect it's still worth at least some effort.
 
Les McLean said:
I cancelled my insurance with them and went to photoguard, who I've been happy with since, although they have been taken over by another company, so can't predict if they will remain good?

BTW, it cost me £213 per annum for 6.5K of insurance , no voluntary excess and no public liability cover.
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Les, that's not far off what I pay Barclays for my entire Contents cover including P&P cover for £5k with a single article limit of £2.5k.

I find that independent insurers invariably charge over the odds for cover you can easily get under your normal household policy and that the claims process is usually much easier with household policies too.

Unless you're more than 50% pro and/or you need public liability cover I'd steer clear of the indies.
 
NorthernNikon said:
Les, that's not far off what I pay Barclays for my entire Contents cover including P&P cover for £5k with a single article limit of £2.5k.

I find that independent insurers invariably charge over the odds for cover you can easily get under your normal household policy and that the claims process is usually much easier with household policies too.

Unless you're more than 50% pro and/or you need public liability cover I'd steer clear of the indies.
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If you do ANY kind of paid work, then you must have public liability insurance. Even non-commisioned work, if the court decided that you were taking photos which you would have sold ( for example you speculatively take photos and sell them online through photobox etc ) then you could be held responcible for any claim someone might bring against you. Say a child trips over your tripod, and then injurs themselves. The parents could sue, and you be left with a very large bill.

If you're purely an amateur and never take any money from protography then fine household insurance is fine. But even if you make less than 10% income from photography, not have PLI is a huge mistake.

Pete
 
NorthernNikon said:
Les, that's not far off what I pay Barclays for my entire Contents cover including P&P cover for £5k with a single article limit of £2.5k.

I find that independent insurers invariably charge over the odds for cover you can easily get under your normal household policy and that the claims process is usually much easier with household policies too.

Unless you're more than 50% pro and/or you need public liability cover I'd steer clear of the indies.
Click to expand...

I checked out our household insurance etc, and their limitations were just too restrictive for example a single article limit of 2.5K would be no good for me.

At the end of the day, it's horses for courses, for £200 per year, I know I have a good cover, with no excess, no individual article limit, so it fits for me.


On the other hand, if folk are happy with extending their household cover that's fine.

A bit of homework and anyone should be able to get cover that they are happy with.
 
really useful thread guys. I've been doing a bit of freelance photography and been thinking about insurance - useful to know.

I also had the same problem with insurance (or lack of) for musical instrument insurance in my band. We ended having to build a massive partition in our van so that the gear was insured even though if it got nicked from a venue etc it was covered.
 
I would recomend http://www.imaginginsurance.co.uk

I just lost my 3 year old 20D to water damage.
They had no problems getting it replaced with a lovely new 40D :thumbs: and all sorted within a couple of weeks.

Big thanks to the guys at Portsmouth's London Camera Exchange too. Great service and they put my 40D by for me for a week with no deposit while I waited for the cheque to arrive.
 
ghostgull said:
I would recomend http://www.imaginginsurance.co.uk

I just lost my 3 year old 20D to water damage.
They had no problems getting it replaced with a lovely new 40D :thumbs: and all sorted within a couple of weeks.

Big thanks to the guys at Portsmouth's London Camera Exchange too. Great service and they put my 40D by for me for a week with no deposit while I waited for the cheque to arrive.
Click to expand...


As it happens I just got off the phone to those guys and took out a policy. Thier conditions are all reasonable ( camera kit hidden out of view in the car ) and thier quote worked out to be about £20 cheaper than E&L.

So it's good to get some more positive feedback about them. :thumbs:
 
I've just emailed them for a quote. So car cover is sensible with them? (If kept out of sight.) Folding seats aren't a problem?
Heres hoping....


Kev.
 
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