install advice for ssd

The pokemon kid said:
Well I was under the influence that there was a write limit and when it was reached, the drive was still writeable too but it could become a troublesome drive. as stated in this quote bellow. But most SSD's now a days from what I have read have a very high write amount anyways...

"Write Endurance: - The number of write cycles to any block of flash is limited - and once you've used up your quota for that block - that's it! The disk can become unreliable. "
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The problem with your quote is it makes it sound like a hard limit. Like 20,000,000 writes will work, but the 20,000,001 won't. What happens is the cells degrade such that they don't store the bit correctly. That is detected with the error detection and correction circuitry and once the block goes bad beyond a threshold, the block is marked bad and not used again.

BTW: most filesystems do wear levelling which abstracts the blocks so you use them from all over, not just contiguously.

The pokemon kid said:
Does it matter that you only have one SATA3 6GBps port on the board? Most standard HDD dont get up to 6GBps anyways... right?
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Correct. But I have 2 SSDs in my main machine.... It's just a thought for an upgrade option to get a little extra life in the future. I thought I'd mention it as it might be something he'd want to consider.

I have to say, the more time I've spent building computers, the more I'm happy to pay for a decent motherboard. It's the things you don't think about when you buy it that you find useful. For example, my mobo has bluetooth. I didn't think I'd use it when I bought it, but now I do use it to sync small files with the Nexus....
 
arad85 said:
I have to say, the more time I've spent building computers, the more I'm happy to pay for a decent motherboard. It's the things you don't think about when you buy it that you find useful. For example, my mobo has bluetooth. I didn't think I'd use it when I bought it, but now I do use it to sync small files with the Nexus....
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Amen to that - I bought the Asus P8Z77-V-Deluxe. Superb although was £200 when I bought it. Room (just) for all my hard drives and SSD drives. Thunderbolt header and USB3

My SATA3 ports almost doubled the speed of my SSD drives over the SATA 2 ports
 
arad85 said:
Correct. But I have 2 SSDs in my main machine.... It's just a thought for an upgrade option to get a little extra life in the future. I thought I'd mention it as it might be something he'd want to consider.
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I thought about the same when I bought my motherboard. it has six 6GBps slots on it... just to be on the safe side. I would agree though about future proofing it by getting one that has multiple SATA 3 slots
 
Bottom line is it's a build for someone else and I'd just kept it on budget before I had to send the original mobo back...
 
The23rdman said:
Bottom line is it's a build for someone else and I'd just kept it on budget before I had to send the original mobo back...
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Which translates to "The23rdman knows the tradeoffs better than I do" ;) :D
 
Idiot Ebuyer dumbasses. Sent them mobo but no RAM. They send me email to say they've sent me a replacement for the RAM I already have and no mobo.
 
So I get an email from ebuyer saying my RAM has been dispatched despite me already having it and still having no mobo. Retards.
 
It was too late. I had my son all day yesterday. I raised an enote in plenty of time.
 
Okay, I've finally built this thing (long story) and I'm ready to load it up. I just want to check that I'm doing everything I need to do as the advice was a bit fragmented and occasionally made no sense to my addled brain. :)

I'm going to fire up and load the mobo drivers then go into the bios and set SATA to AHCI.

What else do I need to do before sticking Win7 on it?
 
The23rdman said:
I'm going to fire up and load the mobo drivers then go into the bios and set SATA to AHCI.
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No. You go into the BIOS before you put anything on the disk and set AHCI. If you install in IDE mode then set to AHCI (or vice versa) you often get BSODs...

The23rdman said:
What else do I need to do before sticking Win7 on it?
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Disconnect all disks EXCEPT the one you want Win7 installed on.
 
EOS_JD said:
............ Also don't INDEX the drive either. SSD's are fast enough searching anyway
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Sorry to hijack but what is wrong with indexing an SSD?

Mine's has been indexed for a yearish apparently:eek:
 
Mikesphotaes said:
Sorry to hijack but what is wrong with indexing an SSD?
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Absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. Some people will say it's not worth it because the drive is fast enough so that search can find things quickly without indexing.
 
Well, I'm typing this on the new build. It has just performed the classic eagle picture speedtest in 8 seconds. That's more than twice the speed of mine!
 
The23rdman said:
Okay, I've finally built this thing (long story) and I'm ready to load it up. I just want to check that I'm doing everything I need to do as the advice was a bit fragmented and occasionally made no sense to my addled brain. :)

I'm going to fire up and load the mobo drivers then go into the bios and set SATA to AHCI.

What else do I need to do before sticking Win7 on it?
Click to expand...

I have just bought a bundle from E-bay including this MB:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASRock-B75-...0HSA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353164218&sr=8-1

and found some (slightly) surprising things:

1. I am using SATA2 cables for ALL drives including a Samsung 128GB SSD and a Seagate SATA3 2TB HDD and found there is no difference between the performance of SATA2 cables and SATA3 cables.

2. Setting the BIOS to AHCI or IDE again makes no difference to the speed.

3.Running Win 7 64bit with 8GB memory is no faster than my XP PRO (nLite'd) despite what I have been frequently told.

4. This board will apparently allow me to use 3TB SATA3 HDDs with XP PRO.

I will post full specs of my machine later with pics.

.
 
petersmart said:
I have just bought a bundle from E-bay including this MB:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASRock-B75-Motherboard-Instant-Charger/dp/B007RQ0HSA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353164218&sr=8-1

and found some (slightly) surprising things:

1. I am using SATA2 cables for ALL drives including a Samsung 128GB SSD and a Seagate SATA3 2TB HDD and found there is no difference between the performance of SATA2 cables and SATA3 cables.

2. Setting the BIOS to AHCI or IDE again makes no difference to the speed.

3.Running Win 7 64bit with 8GB memory is no faster than my XP PRO (nLite'd) despite what I have been frequently told.

4. This board will apparently allow me to use 3TB SATA3 HDDs with XP PRO.

I will post full specs of my machine later with pics.

.
Click to expand...

Sata cables are sata cables are sata cables..

Yeah ahci will make a difference. It may not be hugely noticeable under some conditions.

Memory caching is in seven but the OS won't run faster persay.

3tb drives will work, just not as OS drives.
 
neil_g said:
Sata cables are sata cables are sata cables..

Yeah ahci will make a difference. It may not be hugely noticeable under some conditions.

Memory caching is in seven but the OS won't run faster persay.

3tb drives will work, just not as OS drives.
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Well the SATA2 cables I'm now using are just 15cm or 20cm for the HDDs as the SATA slots are all on the same side as my HDDs and I couldn't find any SATA3 cables that short - apart fron that SATA2 cables are much cheaper.

I'll have to compare the difference between AHCI and IDE but didn't notice any difference.

Well I think the reason Win7 runs faster normally is the caching to memory but the SSD drive has totally negated that advantage as it is easily as fast as the DDR3 memory on my PC.

I understood that using 3TB drives with XP meant you could only use a proportion of the drive and that 2TB were the largest you could use.

EDIT:

I should have put:

3.Running Win7 64bit with 8GB memory is no faster than my XP PRO (nLite'd) using an SSD as my main system drive despite what I have been frequently told - obviously Win7 64 bit will beat XP PRO 32 bit using an ordinary HDD as the system drive.

.
 
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petersmart said:
1. I am using SATA2 cables for ALL drives including a Samsung 128GB SSD and a Seagate SATA3 2TB HDD and found there is no difference between the performance of SATA2 cables and SATA3 cables.
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It depends. If you have a SATA 3 drive that can deliver over 3Gbit/s (i.e. over about 300Mbytes/sec) and you use SATA 2 cables your sustained transfer rates will not reach the maximum. Note SATA 2 cables may be capable of SATA 3 speeds (it's a frequency thing - in the same way Cat5 can sometimes do Gbit over short distances). You won't know until you plug them in though....

petersmart said:
2. Setting the BIOS to AHCI or IDE again makes no difference to the speed.
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AHCI allows the drive to support native command queueing and hot plugging. NCQ can speed up busy systems as you can queue commands to the disk.

petersmart said:
3.Running Win 7 64bit with 8GB memory is no faster than my XP PRO (nLite'd) despite what I have been frequently told.
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I assume it also runs no slower ;) If you aren't using the memory, the performance of the system is dependent on the processor. The OS is out of the way by the time you do any heavy processing tasks. As Neil has said, the extra memory will benefit you when you are using the system as Windows can use it to cache data.
 
petersmart said:
Well I think the reason Win7 runs faster normally is the caching to memory but the SSD drive has totally negated that advantage as it is easily as fast as the DDR3 memory on my PC.
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The SSD is orders of magnitude slower than your main memory. You just haven't tested it yet in an environment where the caching will make a difference.
 
arad85 said:
It depends. If you have a SATA 3 drive that can deliver over 3Gbit/s (i.e. over about 300Mbytes/sec) and you use SATA 2 cables your sustained transfer rates will not reach the maximum. Note SATA 2 cables may be capable of SATA 3 speeds (it's a frequency thing - in the same way Cat5 can sometimes do Gbit over short distances). You won't know until you plug them in though....
Click to expand...

I have plugged them in and run HD Tune to test both the SATA3 cables and SATA2 cables and the results were virtually identical - the SSD ran at over 350Mbit/sec and the Samsung HDD started at 200Mbit/sec and gradually tailed off to about 100Mbit/sec over the test on both cables.

AHCI allows the drive to support native command queueing and hot plugging. NCQ can speed up busy systems as you can queue commands to the disk.

I assume it also runs no slower ;) If you aren't using the memory, the performance of the system is dependent on the processor. The OS is out of the way by the time you do any heavy processing tasks. As Neil has said, the extra memory will benefit you when you are using the system as Windows can use it to cache data.
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Well I didn't do any testing using HD Tune etc but on rendering DVDs to X-Vid the speed on both systems was virtually identical so for me nothing really to be gained except that with Win7 no Quick Launch bar and some of my favourite programs were changed.

So for the moment I will be sticking with my version of XP Pro.

.
 
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arad85 said:
The SSD is orders of magnitude slower than your main memory. You just haven't tested it yet in an environment where the caching will make a difference.
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Not according to the tests I have done - this might be because the Samsung SSD uses DDR2 memory as a cache.

I created a Ramdisk before and it was very fast compared to my SATA2 HDDs but the SSD runs the same and with the SATA3 2TB HDD the system is actually faster rendering DVDs to X-Vids than it was before even using the Ramdisk.

Then the fps on one film was about 100-110 fps now it is about 135-145 fps with the film on the SATA3 HDD and the X-Vid put onto the SSD.

.
 
petersmart said:
Not according to the tests I have done - this might be because the Samsung SSD uses DDR2 memory as a cache.
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My reading is that your tests are not representative of where a cache will help you much. Streaming to/from a file is very predictable....
 
arad85 said:
My reading is that your tests are not representative of where a cache will help you much. Streaming to/from a file is very predictable....
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Since that is mostly what I will be doing and editing my photos it doesn't seem to be a problem then.

What tests should I try to determine the cache speeds etc?

Assuming the software is free or a trial of course :lol:

.
 
Try browsing around lightroom.

Encoding a file is NOT particularly I/O or memory intensive. Yes, it will get quicker if the file is on a fast disk, but it is compute bound, not I/O bound. You need something I/O bound to make a cache show it's performance.

Also leaving the machine up and running and doing general tasks is also where a cache will help. Try doing more than one thing at a time too...
 
God, you guys!

BTT. Okay, all set up. What is the best way to set up the build so everything gets saved directly to the HDD? Can I move anything from the Windows folder over and how?
 
The23rdman said:
God, you guys!

BTT. Okay, all set up. What is the best way to set up the build so everything gets saved directly to the HDD? Can I move anything from the Windows folder over and how?
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If you mean the actual Windows folder which holds the OS then the answer is no.

.
 
neil_g said:
file > save as ;)

or do you mean moving the documents/music/video folders?
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Yes, the latter. This build is for a technophobe and he's a million miles away in Scotland so I can't pop round if he has any trouble, therefore it has to be as easy as a single drive build to use - or as close as.

petersmart said:
If you mean the actual Windows folder which holds the OS then the answer is no.

.
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no, I was referring to my docs, etc.
 
neil_g said:
you can just right click on each one and specify a new location, then delete the old.
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You got me scratching my head now, Neil ?

No way to change location on my menu?

Pretty certain I read how to change My Documents etc. to a new location but can't for the life of me remember:bang:
 
Mikesphotaes said:
You got me scratching my head now, Neil ?

No way to change location on my menu?

Pretty certain I read how to change My Documents etc. to a new location but can't for the life of me remember:bang:
Click to expand...

Right click -> location -> move.
 
The23rdman said:
Right click -> location -> move.
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A right click on say My Music, or My Documents does not bring up Location on the sub menu.

Maybe it's a strange thing related to Win7 Ultimate or maybe it's the old braincell dying!
 
you need to go to them via your user name. Click on that in your start menu.

edit: I'm on Ultimate.
 
The23rdman said:
you need to go to them via your user name. Click on that in your start menu.

edit: I'm on Ultimate.
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Nope, not even that way?

Anyway, no big deal, time for lunch:love:
 
That's nuts. Start... User name... right click on folder... properties... location...move!
 
The23rdman said:
That's nuts. Start... User name... right click on folder... properties... location...move!
Click to expand...

Ah, the missing word, PROPERTIES:p

Must try and mind that method in the future, thanks for the help.
 
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