Ink prices

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shaunh

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Is the cost of replacement inks getting out of hand and spoiling the enjoyment of printing your own work
 
Absolutely. That's the first thing I've noticed when I wanted to start selling my photos and cartoons (and I have sold a few).

Of course there is the "compatibles" route but there's a chance that it may cause problems with the printer and invalidate the warranty in the process. And there's no guarautee that the print quality will be any good.
There is the "continous ink feed" system, but the chances are that will end in tears and messiness if you are heavy handed.

I've learnt that it's better to order any "special" photos online (better still if you can do it as a job lot as it'll come all in one postage), while it probably won't be any cheaper, at least quality will be far better.
 
Once your printers warrantee has run out, get compatables. Never, ever, noticed any difference to the original.
AND saved a fortune.
 
Yes the CIS is more cost effective, but for the hobbyist or small volume printing, these are not viable to many.
I just cant undertstand why inks are so expensive, and that they have gone up in price by almost 100% for the inks i use, and thats from 7 day shop within 2 years, but of course you could always change printers and get a free set each time as printers are getting as cheap as chips now
 
shaunh said:
Yes the CIS is more cost effective, but for the hobbyist or small volume printing, these are not viable to many.
I just cant undertstand why inks are so expensive, and that they have gone up in price by almost 100% for the inks i use, and thats from 7 day shop within 2 years, but of course you could always change printers and get a free set each time as printers are getting as cheap as chips now
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Most printers don't come with *full* ink carts, but about 10% filled. Beyond that, I don't see how CIS is not viable to a small volume printer, a CIS will cost you around £30 for a consumer printer, and about £10-20 for a full set of 100-120ml ink refills, on top of that, unlike the 'ink spread on foam' cartridges, don't dry out as easily if you're not printing continuously. Modern printers tend to need to clean every print run if you're using them infrequently, and a modern printer can use up to 5% of it's ink reservoirs in a 'clean' cycle.

On a standard consumer level printer from any of the main companies, you're looking at about the equivalent of 2 sets of cartridges cost for about 20-50x the ink (most cartridges actually only have 2ml-5ml of ink inside) with a full refill costing less than a set of carts usually does.

If anything, because of the 'drying out' issue and the head cleaning, a medium volume user has less to benefit from CIS than a small volume user.
 
NikkiA said:
Most printers don't come with *full* ink carts, but about 10% filled. Beyond that, I don't see how CIS is not viable to a small volume printer, a CIS will cost you around £30 for a consumer printer, and about £10-20 for a full set of 100-120ml ink refills, on top of that, unlike the 'ink spread on foam' cartridges, don't dry out as easily if you're not printing continuously. Modern printers tend to need to clean every print run if you're using them infrequently, and a modern printer can use up to 5% of it's ink reservoirs in a 'clean' cycle.

On a standard consumer level printer from any of the main companies, you're looking at about the equivalent of 2 sets of cartridges cost for about 20-50x the ink (most cartridges actually only have 2ml-5ml of ink inside) with a full refill costing less than a set of carts usually does.

If anything, because of the 'drying out' issue and the head cleaning, a medium volume user has less to benefit from CIS than a small volume user.
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All printers come with full carts they just have to fill the lines up hence why you appear to get less.
 
With places like DSCL charging pence for prints I find it easier to get prints done else where and we have since sold our large format printer.

You have to remember it isn't just the prints that use up ink there's all the testing, colour profiling, nozzle cleaning etc. then if anything gets messed up in the process you're paying for more paper/ink.

To counter the "You don't have control of the process" arguments, there are plenty of higher end print labs about the country that can be used for those special prints, my local one (Onevision imaging) have always produced results as good or better than the ones I was getting from my large format printer at home.
 
Printer ink, volume for volume, is more expensive than vintage champagne according to one study! What causes even more grief is the fact that so many actually don't allow you to use it all, giving you an 'empty' status and preventing use before its all gone.
I've looked at the CIS system but can't really say I need it, I use cartridges from www.inkredibles.com - much cheaper, a guarantee of compatability and they work fine.
 
NikkiA said:
Most printers don't come with *full* ink carts, but about 10% filled. Beyond that, I don't see how CIS is not viable to a small volume printer, a CIS will cost you around £30 for a consumer printer, and about £10-20 for a full set of 100-120ml ink refills, on top of that, unlike the 'ink spread on foam' cartridges, don't dry out as easily if you're not printing continuously. Modern printers tend to need to clean every print run if you're using them infrequently, and a modern printer can use up to 5% of it's ink reservoirs in a 'clean' cycle.

On a standard consumer level printer from any of the main companies, you're looking at about the equivalent of 2 sets of cartridges cost for about 20-50x the ink (most cartridges actually only have 2ml-5ml of ink inside) with a full refill costing less than a set of carts usually does.

If anything, because of the 'drying out' issue and the head cleaning, a medium volume user has less to benefit from CIS than a small volume user.
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Quite right. I paid £50 for a set of refillable cartridges for the girlfriend's canon printer. Inks are very cheap and it works just as well as the originals. I have a colormunki so I can profile it easily for any paper but if you buy decent paper many with free custom profiling.

Don't waste money on manufacturers inks. Way over priced and contrary to popular belief it does not invalidate the warranty.

Get from a good CIS maker and they will also provide excellent support (I use Fotospeed for my own E[son R2400) and save about £700 per annum.
 
Craikeybaby said:
With places like DSCL charging pence for prints I find it easier to get prints done else where and we have since sold our large format printer.

You have to remember it isn't just the prints that use up ink there's all the testing, colour profiling, nozzle cleaning etc. then if anything gets messed up in the process you're paying for more paper/ink.

To counter the "You don't have control of the process" arguments, there are plenty of higher end print labs about the country that can be used for those special prints, my local one (Onevision imaging) have always produced results as good or better than the ones I was getting from my large format printer at home.
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I too have sent prints out and to be honest it's so cheap I wonder if I should just send everything out. At 60p for a 10x10 from dscl it costs me more for the paper for my inkjet never mind the ink!
 
Craikeybaby said:
With places like DSCL charging pence for prints I find it easier to get prints done else where and we have since sold our large format printer.

You have to remember it isn't just the prints that use up ink there's all the testing, colour profiling, nozzle cleaning etc. then if anything gets messed up in the process you're paying for more paper/ink.

To counter the "You don't have control of the process" arguments, there are plenty of higher end print labs about the country that can be used for those special prints, my local one (Onevision imaging) have always produced results as good or better than the ones I was getting from my large format printer at home.
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I agree getting dscl to do my printing would be cheaper and if you like plain gloss that's great.

However for the home printer inkjets provide different types if paper you can't get cheaper else where.


If I was running a set of 100 holiday snaps I'd send them to DSCL info was printing something for my wall I'd do it at home
 
wontolla said:
Once your printers warrantee has run out, get compatables. Never, ever, noticed any difference to the original.
AND saved a fortune.
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Me too. I always use IJT compatables and never ever had a problem. Also after using IJT for a while you get discount vouchers of 50%.

I just bought a full set of 6 for my Canon printer for ₤20.00.
 
POAH said:
All printers come with full carts they just have to fill the lines up hence why you appear to get less.
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Have to disagree on that based on experience......

I've had a couple of Epson printers over the last 3 years (PX700/720W) which both take the same cartidges.

I used remanufactured carts in the former which lasted a little longer than the originals but when I got the PX720WD, I bought a CIS kit with re-fillable cartridges and put as much ink in them as possible.

After several months of using my printer more than I've ever done before, I've not managed to empty a cartridge yet.

Add to that a full CIS cartridge weighs considerably more than a brand new Epson original I'd say there's very little ink in the original cartridges and the figure I've heard of 5-6ml of ink would be about accurate.
 
Oh also....... how do you explain manufacturers that sell a normal capacity cartridge and a high capacity cartridge but they're the same physical size? ;)
 
I get all my ink from www.internet-ink.co.uk ,ok it's compatibles but this ink is top quality, there is no difference as the ink is from the same place ALL printer companies buy their ink from, remember printer manufacturers don't manufacture ink they buy it from a supplier.

Plus Internet-Ink give you a 10% discount code on your first order AND you won't find anywhere else cheaper !
 
youhave to disagree that the printer hoses are empty and need to be filled :cuckoo:

Russ77 said:
Have to disagree on that based on experience......

I've had a couple of Epson printers over the last 3 years (PX700/720W) which both take the same cartidges.

I used remanufactured carts in the former which lasted a little longer than the originals but when I got the PX720WD, I bought a CIS kit with re-fillable cartridges and put as much ink in them as possible.

After several months of using my printer more than I've ever done before, I've not managed to empty a cartridge yet.

Add to that a full CIS cartridge weighs considerably more than a brand new Epson original I'd say there's very little ink in the original cartridges and the figure I've heard of 5-6ml of ink would be about accurate.
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thats a pretty big statment "as the ink is from the same place ALL printer companies buy their ink from"

Graham00 said:
I get all my ink from www.internet-ink.co.uk ,ok it's compatibles but this ink is top quality, there is no difference as the ink is from the same place ALL printer companies buy their ink from, remember printer manufacturers don't manufacture ink they buy it from a supplier.

Plus Internet-Ink give you a 10% discount code on your first order AND you won't find anywhere else cheaper !
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Yes, genuine inks are expensive but they do give much better and more consistent results than compatibles. Only ever used one cheapo compatible cart and the colour was way off from the start (yes, I could have reprofiled but couldn't be bothered - my time is more valuable to me than any saving I could have made!) and it faded a lot faster than even a print from my ancient HP (long since retired). The offending cart didn't stay in the printer long enough for any nozzle blockage to occur.
 
POAH said:
thats a pretty big statment "as the ink is from the same place ALL printer companies buy their ink from"
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If you click 'About' on their page there's a detailed paragraph which indicates that their ink is the same as top end consumables.
 
Graham00 said:
If you click 'About' on their page there's a detailed paragraph which indicates that their ink is the same as top end consumables.
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Mod edit
Not really required thanks
 
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Nod said:
Yes, genuine inks are expensive but they do give much better and more consistent results than compatibles. Only ever used one cheapo compatible cart and the colour was way off from the start (yes, I could have reprofiled but couldn't be bothered - my time is more valuable to me than any saving I could have made!) and it faded a lot faster than even a print from my ancient HP (long since retired). The offending cart didn't stay in the printer long enough for any nozzle blockage to occur.
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The inks used by the likes of Fotospeed or Permajet in their Cis or refillable cartridges are very good quality indeed & are not regarded as "cheapo compatibles" by the many people that use them, Anyone who buys no-name unbranded compatibles & expects the same quality as Epson or Canon will in most cases be disappointed with the results when photo printing but for non critical office jobs ie letters or spreadsheet printing might be ok.

Toonie
 
Nod said:
Yes, genuine inks are expensive but they do give much better and more consistent results than compatibles. Only ever used one cheapo compatible cart and the colour was way off from the start (yes, I could have reprofiled but couldn't be bothered - my time is more valuable to me than any saving I could have made!) and it faded a lot faster than even a print from my ancient HP (long since retired). The offending cart didn't stay in the printer long enough for any nozzle blockage to occur.
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Cheapo cartridges do not offer the same quality or support that you get with a CIS system but the CIS offers just as good savings on the rip off price the manufacturers charge.
 
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Toonie said:
The inks used by the likes of Fotospeed or Permajet in their Cis or refillable cartridges are very good quality indeed & are not regarded as "cheapo compatibles" by the many people that use them, Anyone who buys no-name unbranded compatibles & expects the same quality as Epson or Canon will in most cases be disappointed with the results when photo printing but for non critical office jobs ie letters or spreadsheet printing might be ok.

Toonie
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Read this after my post :):thumbs:
 
POAH said:
youhave to disagree that the printer hoses are empty and need to be filled :cuckoo:
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No not at all but the printer hoses have to be filled up whether there's 5ml or 25ml of ink in the cartridge so please think twice before :cuckoo: 'ing at me ;)

The point I was making is that the actual cartridges only contain a small amount of ink in comparison to the phyisical size of the cartridge.

Cartridge World and the like always say that most of their re-manufactured/refilled cartridges come with more ink than original cartridges.
 
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epson carts for the R2400 have about 13ml in them - the ones that come with the printer have 13 ml in them. There is no difference in amount between them.

Russ77 said:
No not at all but the printer hoses have to be filled up whether there's 5ml or 25ml of ink in the cartridge so please think twice before :cuckoo: 'ing at me ;)

The point I was making is that the actual cartridges only contain a small amount of ink in comparison to the phyisical size of the cartridge.

Cartridge World and the like always say that most of their re-manufactured/refilled cartridges come with more ink than original cartridges.
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POAH said:
epson carts for the R2400 have about 13ml in them - the ones that come with the printer have 13 ml in them. There is no difference in amount between them.
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Yes but but those cartridges are probably capable of holding 20ml+ of ink :bang:

I have never once compared cartridges that "come with a new printer" to original cartridges, my point has always been that remanufactured cartridges generally hold more ink than originals and the CIS cartridges that I use are probably filled with more ink than remanufactured ones.
 
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As a halfway house between compatibles and CIS systems you could do worse than a JetTek refill kit. It comes with a little drill to pierce the top of the cartridge, some rubber bungs to plug the hole once refilled, a syringe and a set of little bottles of ink. The ink seems to be good quality and there is enough to refill each cartridge about three times. Last time I looked the cost was about a tenner for a kit with four bottles.
 
eccles said:
As a halfway house between compatibles and CIS systems you could do worse than a JetTek refill kit. It comes with a little drill to pierce the top of the cartridge, some rubber bungs to plug the hole once refilled, a syringe and a set of little bottles of ink. The ink seems to be good quality and there is enough to refill each cartridge about three times. Last time I looked the cost was about a tenner for a kit with four bottles.
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Sounds similar to the CIS sytem I have.....

You get the 6 Epson carts that are chipped to fool the printer 100ml of each colour ink and syringes to fill them.

I did a print with the original inks and one with the compatible ink and no one could tell the difference even with the prints side-by-side :)
 
I'm out of touch with ink costs etc, I've mostly been using commercial printers for a while. What would people estimate are their costs per print for something like a 16"x12" on gloss, doing it at home?
 
I did a print with the original inks and one with the compatible ink and no one could tell the difference even with the prints side-by-side
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I bet they will be able to after they have been the sunlight for a while.
 
Dave Stone said:
I bet they will be able to after they have been the sunlight for a while.
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Yes but then that would probably vary between printer/ink manufacturers and professional printers too?

But in any case, surely it'd be simple enough just print another copy off for a few pence?
 
Most original inks these days are guaranteed for ~100 years. I have seen 3rd party inks on high quality paper fade in a matter of days. It definately pays to use good ink and good paper.
 
I don't understand why people by expensive cameras and produce some stunning images. Then buy a good printer and buy cheap ink! Makes no sense at all.
 
POAH said:
All printers come with full carts they just have to fill the lines up hence why you appear to get less
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and you replied

Russ77 said:
Have to disagree on that based on experience......
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:shrug::shrug::shrug:



Russ77 said:
I have never once compared cartridges that "come with a new printer" to original cartridges, my point has always been that remanufactured cartridges generally hold more ink than originals and the CIS cartridges that I use are probably filled with more ink than remanufactured ones.
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Dave Stone said:
I don't understand why people by expensive cameras and produce some stunning images. Then buy a good printer and buy cheap ink! Makes no sense at all.
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Because it is an expensive hobby (or business) and one tries to save money where they can. ;) I got the same argument when buying a compatible battery and a compatible battery grip. :shrug: Neither have let me down. (famous last words eh! ;) :lol:)

If I was printing as part of my business, I would factor in the cost of the manufacturers inks and papers as part of the final cost. Whether that meant giving up printing to a commercial printer, one would have to work out which was best. The pictures printing out the same is one thing, but quickly fading is another. For personal use you can just print again, but selling a print that fades is not on imho.
 
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