Including Landscape Workshop images in your portfolio

Richmate

Richmate

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Richard
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Hi all

I attended a one 2 one workshop last year and managed to get some wonderful landscape images. As you would expect I learnt alot and it definately advanced my photography. I have been out and about since and managed to get some decent shots. I am now at the stage where I would like to but a portfolio together and try and get a little more established. The question is, do I / should I use any of the images from the workshop in my portfolio or leave them out completely. The photos at the workshop were composed (with some advice as to locations) and taken by me but I still feel unsure if I should ue them as my own work.

Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this matter.

Rich
 
I would say that if you are unsure then leave them out and only show your own work.

Or if they were mainly your work as you say then maybe have a section in your portfolio and state that they were taken at a workshop.
.
 
Richmate said:
The question is, do I / should I use any of the images from the workshop in my portfolio
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Personally I wouldn't as it wouldn't be all my own work, although I'm happy to accept I may be in the minority.

I confess to being a bit bemused when I occasionally see people posting up 'their' photographs from something like a lighting workshop. The instructor has provided the location, model, styling, lighting equipment, set the lights up to demonstrate a technique, posed the model and deduced the optimum exposure - then the attendee simply steps in front and grabs a photo and claims it as 'their' vision/photo/work of art/poetry in light & shade, because they pressed the shutter button on their camera.

A contradictory tale:
Many moons ago I was shooting a job where some craftsmen were renovating a clock face on a tall tower. Obviously I did all the normal stuff from safe positions, but I really liked the idea of a graphic image from an unusual angle but didn't fancy risking life and limb to achieve it. However, one of the craftsmen didn't baulk at the ever-so-slightly crazy idea. So I set the camera up, taped down the focus and exposure (this is black & white film days...I'm an old git!), drew a detailed diagram of the shot and coached the guy on what to do. He was simply a shutter monkey with the balls to hang precariously from a tower.

Next day the photo had a massive show in the newspaper...with his byline, at my insistence and against my picture editor's wishes.

So even I don't agree with myself! :-)
 
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Just one question:

What's the 'portfolio' for?
 
Phil V said:
Just one question:

What's the 'portfolio' for?
Click to expand...

Not in a portfolio in the strictist terms but to use on my own website (when it is built) or in gallery should i get the opportunity. Just want to do the right thing, it not that the images are beyond my ability it is just that they add to the variety from what i can pick from.
 
Richmate said:
Not in a portfolio in the strictist terms but to use on my own website (when it is built) or in gallery should i get the opportunity. Just want to do the right thing, it not that the images are beyond my ability it is just that they add to the variety from what i can pick from.
Click to expand...
What's the website for?
 
I see this kind of thing all the time. It could be worse, it could be like the Cheltenham photographer I posted on here a while ago who had filled their website with stock images they purchased.

The one thing I would say is that consistently it may not fit in with your other pictures when it's on the site.
 
You could write a piece on your website about the courses you've been on and include the images with this.

Might make a good story that may even generate a little traffic to your site.
 
Portfolios are like CVs. You may have a master version that includes absolutely everything, but only an idiot would eve use it "stock" without adjusting it for the exact circumstances to hand.


Even for a general photography website, you need to understand the purpose and target audience and work from that to choose what you display, how you display it and how you organise the pages if you want it to deliver an outcome.

But if we're honest, most non-professional photographers (i.e. the majority of the membership of this forum) have a vanity website with only a vague purpose and aspirations of one day "being discovered" or selling an image or two. It's not necessarily worth getting too hung-up on selection and presentation unless either that appeals as an activity in its own right or you're actually going to get serious about making a go of it.
 
As someone who teaches landscape photography and might have had you (hypothetically) on a training day I say...

I might take you to a great spot for a shot, and at the right time of day (sunrise/sunset as obvious examples). I might need to suggest composition to you, focal lengths and aperture/shutter/ISO settings as we discuss the scene and what we (you) want to capture from it. If you followed all my guidance exactly and took the shot would it be yours or mine?

Many would say its mine, but consider

If you read all about how to compose, camera settings and vision, then went to the same spot where you've seen a FAB shot taken, and at a similar time of day (sunrise/sunset) take a similar shot is that yours or the author of the book you read and the shot that inspired you?

Most would probably say its now your shot, but I don't see much difference - and for the record I'd say BOTH were your shot, just with guidance. ANYTHING you see or read that influences you & your understanding and vision is still only part of the process of making a photo. I've never seen anyone process a shot exactly the same as me even when the subject was the same and shot at the same time

Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a shot of Cathedral Cavern and this week I shot there. We both had wideangle lenses and both shot from a similar angle, in what must have been similar light; the only real difference is that I processed my shot to reflect the vision I had and what I wanted to show. This was a "Tripod holes" kind of shot but mine is still purely mine

Here's an example

Cathedral Caverns - David Goodier photography 2 - WEB.jpg

So yes, use whatever you like on your portfolio as, for me, even if I'd been teaching you and you took most/all of my advice the final decision of when to press and how to PP are yours, so its your shot. Added to which you'd now have a better understanding of how to do it so as long as you could go back and take the same again its obviously your shot; only something so complicated that you couldn't reproduce it yourself would cloud the issue

Dave
 
Richmate said:
Would you use workshop as your own though? Do you see issues with it?
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Well in the past when I used to take pictures of models I used some pictures from a workshop in my portfolio but I wasn't making money from it at that point.

If I was going to do a workshop now it would be to learn a new skill for a new type or style of photography. I would probably use those images from the workshop on the website to get people interested and when I take some for my clients I would likely replace the images. It's often the case that after practice you get better anyway and start to see those original pictures not so strongly.
 
DG Phototraining said:
As someone who teaches landscape photography and might have had you (hypothetically) on a training day I say...

I might take you to a great spot for a shot, and at the right time of day (sunrise/sunset as obvious examples). I might need to suggest composition to you, focal lengths and aperture/shutter/ISO settings as we discuss the scene and what we (you) want to capture from it. If you followed all my guidance exactly and took the shot would it be yours or mine?

Many would say its mine, but consider

If you read all about how to compose, camera settings and vision, then went to the same spot where you've seen a FAB shot taken, and at a similar time of day (sunrise/sunset) take a similar shot is that yours or the author of the book you read and the shot that inspired you?

Most would probably say its now your shot, but I don't see much difference - and for the record I'd say BOTH were your shot, just with guidance. ANYTHING you see or read that influences you & your understanding and vision is still only part of the process of making a photo. I've never seen anyone process a shot exactly the same as me even when the subject was the same and shot at the same time

Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a shot of Cathedral Cavern and this week I shot there. We both had wideangle lenses and both shot from a similar angle, in what must have been similar light; the only real difference is that I processed my shot to reflect the vision I had and what I wanted to show. This was a "Tripod holes" kind of shot but mine is still purely mine

So yes, use whatever you like on your portfolio as, for me, even if I'd been teaching you and you took most/all of my advice the final decision of when to press and how to PP are yours, so its your shot. Added to which you'd now have a better understanding of how to do it so as long as you could go back and take the same again its obviously your shot; only something so complicated that you couldn't reproduce it yourself would cloud the issue

Dave
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Very well considered and written Dave. Appreciate your time for providing a view from someone who carries out workshops.(y)

If I (and I have) read an article from a magazine/book and been inspired by that particular image and went and copied it then I wouldn't have even hesitated about claiming the image as my own work. Perhaps I should, you have made me pause for thought:thinking:. As you suggest there is little difference in the end result between this and going on a workshop. Added with the personalised/unique style of my processing makes it more unique to me.

Thanks Rich
 
My only objection with people using workshop images for portfolios Is when some-one attends a wedding workshop, where everything is set up perfectly, with an amazing location,
models for Bride & Groom, everyone takes it in turns to take the same shot in various locations. Repeat this a few times, and yes, that person would have some awesome shots
on their website.
Some poor unsuspecting Bride to be sees them, and books for her wedding, which is a registry office affair, with a party in the room above the pub afterwards, and expect the
photographer to be able to cope. It's fraud AFAIAC.
As for landscapes, that's slightly different, as people will buy a print from you if they like it, but they won't necessarily book you for a commission under false pretences.
If I see a print for sale, and I think it would look good on my wall, I won't care whether you took it on a workshop or not, because I am buying that print as I see it.
Just my 2p worth !
 
GHP said:
My only objection with people using workshop images for portfolios Is when some-one attends a wedding workshop, where everything is set up perfectly, with an amazing location,
models for Bride & Groom, everyone takes it in turns to take the same shot in various locations. Repeat this a few times, and yes, that person would have some awesome shots
on their website.
Some poor unsuspecting Bride to be sees them, and books for her wedding, which is a registry office affair, with a party in the room above the pub afterwards, and expect the
photographer to be able to cope. It's fraud AFAIAC.
Click to expand...

:agree:
 
Re the B&G Wedding Workshops - and I agree with the 'its not your shot' brigade on this one

A few years ago a FAB photographer friend of mine came up with the idea of doing Travelodge Type Wedding Workshops (not his title but I hope you get the idea)

So he started to talk to people about using normal looking folk including fat ones, not trained models, and very normal Wedding venues where crappy backgrounds are common, Prep is done with 10 people in a shoebox, and there are no lakes, rivers, stunning anything nearby. The idea was very firmly to learn how to shoot "real" Weddings that most of us do

He got fk all people interested in it so of course it didn't go ahead, yet near me such Workshops are regularly run with stunning B&G models in & around castles, and yes - I see photos from these Workshops on far too many website galleries! They are often the first 2-5 images you see but if you wait until the 6th then they are all average to crappy images by then as these are their real work

There are some websites near me showing 'Wedding' photos of the SAME B&Gs !!! So all too obviously from a training day; and I even know a couple of the 'Brides' from other portrait Workshops where they are the models, yet can be found marrying several different men on various tog's websites

Frankly, it sickens me that Brides are suckered like this

Mini-rant over :D

Dave
 
Don't some photographers have 'people' that set up the shots (mainly studio) and all they do is click the shutter, making the pictures theirs? Even though someone else created the scene.

Great reply Dave, if you think about there is nothing new. I'm just starting in landsapes and at present I'm more then happy to put my tripod in the holes of others, has the scene been done a millions times, yes but the picture I make is still mine.
DG Phototraining said:
As someone who teaches landscape photography and might have had you (hypothetically) on a training day I say...

I might take you to a great spot for a shot, and at the right time of day (sunrise/sunset as obvious examples). I might need to suggest composition to you, focal lengths and aperture/shutter/ISO settings as we discuss the scene and what we (you) want to capture from it. If you followed all my guidance exactly and took the shot would it be yours or mine?

Many would say its mine, but consider

If you read all about how to compose, camera settings and vision, then went to the same spot where you've seen a FAB shot taken, and at a similar time of day (sunrise/sunset) take a similar shot is that yours or the author of the book you read and the shot that inspired you?

Most would probably say its now your shot, but I don't see much difference - and for the record I'd say BOTH were your shot, just with guidance. ANYTHING you see or read that influences you & your understanding and vision is still only part of the process of making a photo. I've never seen anyone process a shot exactly the same as me even when the subject was the same and shot at the same time

Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a shot of Cathedral Cavern and this week I shot there. We both had wideangle lenses and both shot from a similar angle, in what must have been similar light; the only real difference is that I processed my shot to reflect the vision I had and what I wanted to show. This was a "Tripod holes" kind of shot but mine is still purely mine

Here's an example

View attachment 69100

So yes, use whatever you like on your portfolio as, for me, even if I'd been teaching you and you took most/all of my advice the final decision of when to press and how to PP are yours, so its your shot. Added to which you'd now have a better understanding of how to do it so as long as you could go back and take the same again its obviously your shot; only something so complicated that you couldn't reproduce it yourself would cloud the issue

Dave
Click to expand...

Great reply. I'm just starting in landscapes and at present I'm more then happy to put my tripod in the holes of others, has the scene been done a millions times, yes, but the picture I make is still mine.
I will add, that if you can't reproduce the same result from the workshop without guidance then maybe you shouldn't use it. Perhaps displaying a technical skill that you still haven't really learned.
 
MrDrizz said:
Don't some photographers have 'people' that set up the shots (mainly studio) and all they do is click the shutter, making the pictures theirs? Even though someone else created the scene.
...
Click to expand...
Closer to the opposite. On a large production, the 'photographer' would direct all the props and lighting and test and measure, it wouldn't matter much to them who pressed the shutter (but they're 'responsible' for the look of the image). That changes slightly when shooting people as the direction is done by the photographer usually with them shooting it.
 
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