Immigration - where does it end? What's next?

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JulesP

JulesP

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I don't want to start a debate about immigration and what's right and what's wrong BUT - when a 5 year old boy and his brother are washed up dead on the shore - surely something has to be done?
I don't know the answer but seeing these photos on the news just now, I can't see how we can carry on the way things are.
This can't surely carry on in this 'modern world' that we live in - can it?
 
I just saw the video on Sky News and it made me angry and sad at the same time.

The world needs to be helping the Syrians, not just the EU, or the UK, but every stable democratic country needs to step in and help with the crisis that is unfolding.

The US and the UK could be said to have the most responsibility, the debacle of the Iraq war is what ultimately allowed IS to become what it has.
 
Agreed - and all this senseless destruction of historic sites - I can't see how or why they are allowed to carry on with this.
 
Dave1 said:
I just saw the video on Sky News and it made me angry and sad at the same time.

The world needs to be helping the Syrians, not just the EU, or the UK, but every stable democratic country needs to step in and help with the crisis that is unfolding.

The US and the UK could be said to have the most responsibility, the debacle of the Iraq war is what ultimately allowed IS to become what it has.
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Absolutely agree with you there Dave invading Iraq was a huge mistake which we are paying for now
And yes heartbreaking what is happening with the refugees they must be desperate to attempt the journey
 
I fully disagree with the U.S. and the UK having the most responsibility, I think that is just nonsense. However where I am ashamed of the UK is our total lacklustre response in helping these refugees, how we keep on referring to them as migrants, and how many are sitting in their comfy armchair and saying we are full and the other countries should do something. All of those "facts" are totally wrong and the lack of action or willingness to process these refugees very quickly and welcome them is just shocking.
 
We would do well to remember that just about all of us are descended from immigrants at some point in the past. There is no such thing as pure British.


Steve.
 
Hasn't the exact same thing been discussed on several other thread recently?
 
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BRASH said:
Hasn't the exact same thing been discussed on several other thread recently?
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Maybe immigration has, but when things like a 5 year old washed up on a lonely beach happen, surely that's not right.
Yes I agree immigration and refugees are different as immigrants generally have a choice whereas refugees are fleeing war or persecution. Who has the right make things so bad for someone else that they are forced to flee and put the lives of themselves and their children at risk?
 
JulesP said:
Maybe immigration has, but when things like a 5 year old washed up on a lonely beach happen, surely that's not right.
Yes I agree immigration and refugees are different as immigrants generally have a choice whereas refugees are fleeing war or persecution. Who has the right make things so bad for someone else that they are forced to flee and put the lives of themselves and their children at risk?
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Nobody has, nor has anyone got the right to refuse refuge. I'm glad it was offered to my ancestors and find it very hard to comprehend the stance of the UK on this. Now I don't agree with just blanket opening the borders but we do have the capability to process and verify relative quickly. Also doesn't have to mean to grant indefinite leave to remain, but we should welcome them and allow them to be productive and try and provide some kind of normality to their children. Whilst that kind of kindness must be unconditional, in reality it will enable a long lasting friendship.
 
So, say we agree to let in 50,000 as a humanitarian gesture. Can someome explain how that will stop others being washed up on a beach in Turkey. Would we not just be encouraging more to take on the journey ?
 
It won't stop more being washed up on beaches.
The 'problem' needs solving at the source.
Stop the cause of them looking for a better life and you stop this happening again and again.
 
I get that people need to leave some countries... but why travel so far and so dangerously? Syria borders Turkey... while they are different countries there are similarities (in the same way of us and the french) so do people not go there? Same with these migrants trekking across Europe, what is wrong with Hungary, Bulgaria etc... If you are genuinely escaping a war zone then the first safe place will be a godsend.
 
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Dave1 said:
I just saw the video on Sky News and it made me angry and sad at the same time.

The world needs to be helping the Syrians, not just the EU, or the UK, but every stable democratic country needs to step in and help with the crisis that is unfolding.

The US and the UK could be said to have the most responsibility, the debacle of the Iraq war is what ultimately allowed IS to become what it has.
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we make decisions based on facts at the time. At the time I believed going to war was a good thing, but time has shown us that dictators like Gadaffi and Hussain actually helped keep things in check. Lets not forget that 9/11 predated all this and isn't IS an offshoot of AlQaidea (or however you spell it!!). So had we not taken action, terrors could still have happened. Maybe we should have sent troops in straight away to help Assad?
 
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Simplythebeast said:
So, say we agree to let in 50,000 as a humanitarian gesture. Can someome explain how that will stop others being washed up on a beach in Turkey. Would we not just be encouraging more to take on the journey ?
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This. It really isn't our problem if other people choose to endanger themselves, no matter what age they are.

Providing search and rescue missions means even more overwhelming amounts will try and come to Europe and more by extension to the uk.
 
Simplythebeast said:
So, say we agree to let in 50,000 as a humanitarian gesture. Can someome explain how that will stop others being washed up on a beach in Turkey. Would we not just be encouraging more to take on the journey ?
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No it won't stop that unfortunately. Not as long as there are desperate people fleeing to safety. I see it more as a measure of how desperate it is to them opposed to some economic migration opportunity that would encourage others.

Nobody is saying that as part of humanitarian aid and provision of refuse they should be given a British passport with indefinitely leave to remain.
 
cambsno said:
I get that people need to leave some countries... but why travel so far and so dangerously? Syria borders Turkey... while they are different countries there are similarities (in the same way of us and the french) so do people not go there? Same with these migrants trekking across Europe, what is wrong with Hungary, Bulgaria etc... If you are genuinely escaping a war zone then the first safe place will be a godsend.
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Yes they do go there and millions of them intact together with other bordering countries. Would you want to be in a tent camp where millions of people live? I know I wouldn't.
 
dejongj said:
Yes they do go there and millions of them intact together with other bordering countries. Would you want to be in a tent camp where millions of people live? I know I wouldn't.
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Yep, so they come here out of preference which means it's economic reasoning and not just safety.

I'd just go to the camp in the nearby state rather than risk life and limb coming here. Which is why I have 0 sympathy for any who die taking such a journey.
 
We are constantly being told that this is a European problem and it is for Europe to solve it. How did we get into this mess in the first place? It seems that the current issues in Syria and the Middle East stem from destabalisation caused by the invasion of Iraq, and also the 'Arab Spring' revolution whereby the citizens of many countries revolted against their harsh leadership. The Invasion was predominantly by the USA with assistance of the UK and Allies whereas the Arab Spring was encouraged and supported by the West.
So.....Europe to a lesser degree, then the UK, then the main players, the USA.
Has anyone heard anything at all from the USA about taking any refugees? You know....the place with a massive land mass that could easily accomodate hundreds of thousands? No, its very very quiet over there while they watch Europe struggling with a humanitarian disaster.
As usual, its nothing to do with America, they specialise in regime change to facilitate US interests then step back and let others clean up the mess.
 
ST4, its a bit simplistic to think that those Syrian redugees should just settle in Turkey as their first place of safety when one considers that most are Kurds and Turkey is enduring a considerable struggle with Kurdish groups in the East so they probably arent exactly welcome.
 
Simplythebeast said:
ST4, its a bit simplistic to think that those Syrian redugees should just settle in Turkey as their first place of safety when one considers that most are Kurds and Turkey is enduring a considerable struggle with Kurdish groups in the East so they probably arent exactly welcome.
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Iraq, Saudi, Sudan, Ethiopia, Tunisia, Morocco etc
 
While I agree that they have to have somewhere to settle and all the other arguments ,my gut feeling says that the European nations and the main trouble causer USA should be sending in a joint force to put a end to this war ,disarm the opposing sides ,and give the Syrian and Iraqi people there country back ,it's like a fight in the school playground that's gotten out of control now someone with authority and the means to stop it has to stop the root cause .
We and other nations have all stood on the sidelines for far to long saying it's not our war ,well it bloody well is now ,you reap what you sow
 
We the US and the EU made the problem we should fix it.
Send the Army in to Syria.
 
I tend to agree With Black Fox, however it needs to be a massive effort and it needs to be not just the West. Russia has now entered the Syria situation alledgedly to take on ISIS (In reality most likely to support Assad and prevent the West enforcing a no fly zone). If they are serious about defeating ISIS what better opportunity for a true joint commitment. Together, the superpowers could sort the situation out in no time given the will.
 
ST4 said:
Why should our troops die saving a country we have no interst in. It will become our Vietnam if we go in there. Unless we colonise it there's no point
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That old son is the catch 22 ,damned if we do damned if we don't . It's not the refugees that are the problem it's the sheer size of this exodus and also who's hidden within it ,this is a game changer on a unheard of before scale .
Funny we are not hearing much from certain other e.u countries I.e Holland ,Denmark ,etc ,also Poland that must have land and housing aplenty seeing half there population is living here already .
 
the black fox said:
Funny we are not hearing much from certain other e.u countries I.e Holland ,Denmark ,etc ,also Poland that must have land and housing aplenty seeing half there population is living here already .
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Because they have sense and don't want to let in so many people and thus see their countries irrevocably changed forever fiscally and culturally. Also many of them don't want to head to Poland but Sweden, Germany and UK as they see those as states who are generous.
 
If there's one thing that this situation has provided solid proof who the truly disgusting racist bigots of the forum are :(

The situation as it currently stands makes me truly sad, we should be doing a lot more to help these people than we currently are...
 
MWHCVT said:
The situation as it currently stands makes me truly sad, we should be doing a lot more to help these people than we currently are...
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I agree - more needs to be done, these people are obviously being forced from their homes through no fault of their own.
I recently went past the camp in Calais and it's not right that people in this day and age have to live like that.
I really do think a lot more work needs doing in the refugees home countries though as I am sure they would rather not be displaced and risk their lives like this. I can't think how bandit must be to get forced from your own country.
 
MWHCVT said:
If there's one thing that this situation has provided solid proof who the truly disgusting racist bigots of the forum are :(

The situation as it currently stands makes me truly sad, we should be doing a lot more to help these people than we currently are...
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the trouble is mathew we are in a free country on a minor forum discussing something that we have TOTALLY no control over ,its up to our elected government to say what happens to our country ,our borders ,our way of living .
why are not the turkish police and army cracking down on the murderers who are putting whole families in a overcrowded rubber dinghy and sending them out to sea ,yes i personally feel for people that have lost someone but we can do nothing about it on a personal scale .
the root cause needs addressing as i said earlier ,the mistakes of the past have happened and will continue to happen until the arms merchants can squeeze no more money out of there customers .its not a new story either i suggest you get hold of a copy of the h.g wells novel or the alexander korda film version of "the shape of things to come" then relate them to the present day ,over 100 years on and how prophetic ,the human race it seems has the groundhog day effect built into our genes
 
cambsno said:
Turkey... while they are different countries there are similarities (in the same way of us and the french) so do people not go there?
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Well over a million have. If the Turkish press was to be believed last time I was there its cost the country well over a billion dollars. Makes the few hundred we've taken a bit of a joke really.
 
I think some of the bigots on here should be placed on the shores of a war zone with shell holes in the roof, with their lively hoods destroyed. Their towns and infrastructure destroyed. Children dying for basic needs and food. Gangs roaming the streets with AK47s raping, looting and generally doing whatever they need.

I would then ask the bigots would they stay or run/swim for their lives?
 
Mr Bump said:
I think some of the bigots on here should be placed on the shores of a war zone with shell holes in the roof, with their lively hoods destroyed. Their towns and infrastructure destroyed. Children dying for basic needs and food. Gangs roaming the streets with AK47s raping, looting and generally doing whatever they need.

I would then ask the bigots would they stay or run/swim for their lives?
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obviously never been to manchester ,liverpool or wales then have you
 
how many threads on the same subject do we need ? This isn't the britain first forums
 
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