Image wanted for advertising

Laudrup - please read this thread in its entirety. It's not about whims, or photographers 'pushing their luck'. It's about common sense and the fact that we do have the option to say no when there is absolutely no gain in saying yes. Whichever way you look at it, it makes sense to understand who you're dealing with and what their motives are. The business involved in this thread is a case in point, but I feel you're glossing over that. Your interpretation of asking for something in exchange, or even negotiating, is greed - as if we should all become casual philanthropists. As I said earlier, I don't care what someone does with their pictures - but if they bring it to a forum to canvass opinions then it's understandable they would get the kind of advice already given.
 
Lindsay D said:
Laudrup - please read this thread in its entirety. It's not about whims, or photographers 'pushing their luck'. It's about common sense and the fact that we do have the option to say no when there is absolutely no gain in saying yes. Whichever way you look at it, it makes sense to understand who you're dealing with and what their motives are. The business involved in this thread is a case in point, but I feel you're glossing over that. Your interpretation of asking for something in exchange, or even negotiating, is greed - as if we should all become casual philanthropists. As I said earlier, I don't care what someone does with their pictures - but if they bring it to a forum to canvass opinions then it's understandable they would get the kind of advice already given.
Click to expand...

Your mantra was "ask and you might get", so why shouldn't that logic apply to someone asking for it for free? You can milk someone for substantially more than the going rate and it is all fine but woe betide anyone that wants to come in under the going rate?
 
Laudrup said:
Your mantra was "ask and you might get", so why shouldn't that logic apply to someone asking for it for free? You can milk someone for substantially more than the going rate and it is all fine but woe betide anyone that wants to come in under the going rate?
Click to expand...

Of course it applies to them as well, everyone is free to ask - but I think in your view that's where it should end. I have outlined the conditions under which their request would be untenable, and the conditions under which negotiation can be worthwhile. For a start, these businesses almost always want something for nothing. Whereas the photographer is (rightly) asking for something in exchange for an asset which is likely to offer commercial benefit to whomever wants to use it.
 
Lindsay D said:
never once has it brought me paying clients, just lots of questions about how I take my pictures and people asking about my kit. This is why payment is so important.
Click to expand...

Some great info on this thread, thanks to those who have contributed, particularly Lindsay who has made many valid points including my favourite above.

I'm an amateur with no aspirations to go pro and, for what it's worth, the few times I have been asked for a photo to be used by a commercial company I usually suggest a donation to a charity I run. Somewhat depressingly, even when the beneficiary is a charity, the response is usually silence. However I have received several generous donations from friends after I have taken photographs at an event or party.
 
As a general analogy, to nobody in particular other than those happening on this thread. Another bit of role playing. Let's say you have your day job but for many years you've enjoyed cooking, to the point where your pies are good enough to sell. With that in mind each Sunday you set out a little stall in the local market. One day, a sharply dressed geezer parks his Audi on the curb and wanders over to you:

Businessman: "I just want to tell you those pies look fantastic - amongst the best I've seen, you really are an awesome cook. Would you mind letting me have three of them?"

Baker: "Thanks for the compliment, they're five pounds each"

Businessman: "Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I don't have a budget to pay for the pies, I was hoping you would donate them"

Baker: " Why would I donate them to you?"

Businessman: "Because you clearly really enjoy making pies, like a lot of people - cookery is one of our national past times after all, just like photography in fact. Are you telling me you always expect to get paid?"

Baker: "When I'm dealing with a stranger promoting and selling something, yes"

Businessman: "I'm afraid we don't have a budget for food when we're on business. We're trying to increase our profits as much as possible, a lot of the people we ask will give us something to help us out - after all, we need quite a lot of energy to get through our business day while we're out and about selling our goods. I think it's cool that there are so many stupid numpties out there who respond to a bit of flattery. We do meet the odd awkward stuck up b*gger who won't play ball though - what makes you think you deserve something in exchange?"

Baker: "Well, the fact that I've been practising my baking for a lot of years in order to get it to this standard, actually I went to college. I use the best ingredients and I have a decent oven, which costs money. It also takes time to go and choose the ingredients and then do all the mixing, styling, and cooking which takes electricity. Then I have the overheads of running my pitch".

Businessman: " So you're not prepared to do something nice for someone else?"

Baker: " On the contrary, these pies help to feed my family and pay bills - and I share them with my friends, which is definitely nice. The ones which don't get eaten are delivered to my favourite charity"

Businessman: "But if you give us some pies we'll tell people you made them - it might get your pies out there"

Baker: " And the people you tell probably don't eat pies, or they're other business people just like you wanting a freebie. Look, I'll give you the pies if you give me one of the plates you're selling"

Businessman: "You have no idea of how businesses get food these days - it's a one way deal, or nothing. I can't give you any plates, we don't give our products away - we're a small enterprise"

Baker: "Oh, right. So why would I give a stranger something valuable, which has cost me time and money to create, when I will get absolutely nothing in exchange?"

Businessman: "err, ermm, huh, oh f*ck, because some other people will, so you might as well"

Baker: "so why don't you go and ask those people instead?"

Businessman: "because your pies are the ones we want, they will make us and our business look really good"

Baker: "ever thought of baking your own pies?"

Businessman: "Christ no, we don't have the skills, or the money for the equipment - that's what dumb-ass bakers are for"
 
Last edited:
Lindsay D said:
That's good news - sounds like you were one of the lucky ones, going by some of the comments in the other discussion. Really sad that so many people lost their money.
Click to expand...
Just reading through the kickstarter thread now, not good reading. If id have seen that before, then i don't think id have bought their product let alone let them use an image.
 
Lindsay D said:
As a general analogy, to nobody in particular other than those happening on this thread. Another bit of role playing. Let's say you have your day job but for many years you've enjoyed cooking, to the point where your pies are good enough to sell. With that in mind each Sunday you set out a little stall in the local market. One day, a sharply dressed geezer parks his Audi on the curb and wanders over to you:

Businessman: "I just want to tell you those pies look fantastic - amongst the best I've seen, you really are an awesome cook. Would you mind letting me have three of them?"

Baker: "Thanks for the compliment, they're five pounds each"

Businessman: "Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I don't have a budget to pay for the pies, I was hoping you would donate them"

Baker: " Why would I donate them to you?"

Businessman: "Because you clearly really enjoy making pies, like a lot of people - cookery is one of our national past times after all, just like photography in fact. Are you telling me you always expect to get paid?"

Baker: "When I'm dealing with a stranger promoting and selling something, yes"

Businessman: "I'm afraid we don't have a budget for food when we're on business. We're trying to increase our profits as much as possible, a lot of the people we ask will give us something to help us out - after all, we need quite a lot of energy to get through our business day while we're out and about selling our goods. I think it's cool that there are so many stupid numpties out there who respond to a bit of flattery. We do meet the odd awkward stuck up b*gger who won't play ball though - what makes you think you deserve something in exchange?"

Baker: "Well, the fact that I've been practising my baking for a lot of years in order to get it to this standard, actually I went to college. I use the best ingredients and I have a decent oven, which costs money. It also takes time to go and choose the ingredients and then do all the mixing, styling, and cooking which takes electricity. Then I have the overheads of running my pitch".

Businessman: " So you're not prepared to do something nice for someone else?"

Baker: " On the contrary, these pies help to feed my family and pay bills - and I share them with my friends, which is definitely nice. The ones which don't get eaten are delivered to my favourite charity"

Businessman: "But if you give us some pies we'll tell people you made them - it might get your pies out there"

Baker: " And the people you tell probably don't eat pies, or they're other business people just like you wanting a freebie. Look, I'll give you the pies if you give me one of the plates you're selling"

Businessman: "You have no idea of how businesses get food these days - it's a one way deal, or nothing. I can't give you any plates, we don't give our products away - we're a small enterprise"

Baker: "Oh, right. So why would I give a stranger something valuable, which has cost me time and money to create, when I will get absolutely nothing in exchange?"

Businessman: "err, ermm, huh, oh f*ck, because some other people will, so you might as well"

Baker: "so why don't you go and ask those people instead?"

Businessman: "because your pies are the ones we want, they will make us and our business look really good"

Baker: "ever thought of baking your own pies?"

Businessman: "Christ no, we don't have the skills, or the money for the equipment - that's what dumb-ass bakers are for"
Click to expand...

The barriers of entry are so low in photography that you don't need an expensive camera or a degree or any qualification. Almost anyone can do it and almost everyone has access to a camera that will turn out perfectly acceptable results for the web.

In your pie analogy why would you miss out on the opportunity to showcase your pies to a wider audience in the trade for £15 quid? What if the Tesco chief buyer came back and ordered £20k worth of pies? All you'd be doing using your example is sitting at home chucking out fusty unsold pies muttering 'that'll teach them'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
Laudrup said:
The barriers of entry are so low in photography that you don't need an expensive camera or a degree or any qualification. Almost anyone can do it and almost everyone has access to a camera that will turn out perfectly acceptable results for the web.

In your pie analogy why would you miss out on the opportunity to showcase your pies to a wider audience in the trade for £15 quid? What if the Tesco chief buyer came back and ordered £20k worth of pies? All you'd be doing using your example is sitting at home chucking out fusty unsold pies muttering 'that'll teach them'.
Click to expand...

Yes, the barriers are low, but from what I've seen a lot of very good photographers are approached with an expectation that they will offer free work - these are generally skilled practitioners (be they hobbyist or pro), if not excellent ones a lot of the time. Out of the photographers I know, I think they have all been approached in this way, so it isn't always the province of the lower-level hobbyist. I would say most businesses look for good photography since poor photography won't add value to their product or service - especially in this case if you go back to the OP.

I covered the marketing aspect in my analogy - I think the chances of the marketing bigwig from Tesco happening upon your pies as a result of random largesse are low. Far better to send a special sample of my pie directly to the buyer, rather than lining the stomach of irrelevant middlemen in the hope that one day I'll be 'discovered'.
 
Last edited:
So Laudrup , Let me get this straight - a person sets up a company and takes money from people for the product which does not exist on the pretence of developing and finishing it then refuses to give the money back and walks away , this same person extorts images for free from photographers with some sort of offer of payment of equipment which costs them next to nothing anyway.

And you think this is all well and good and a model we should be encouraging amateur photographers to follow ?

If so please let me have your contact details as I am sure i can come up with some hair-brain scheme to part you with your money too.
 
The company behind Triggertrap is worth about the same as a new Ford Mondeo it seems. So I'm guessing the Kickstarter campaign didn't go too well. :clap:
 
Lindsay D said:
Yes, the barriers are low, but from what I've seen a lot of very good photographers are approached with an expectation that they will offer free work - these are generally skilled practitioners (be they hobbyist or pro), if not excellent ones a lot of the time. Out of the photographers I know, I think they have all been approached in this way, so it isn't always the province of the lower-level hobbyist. I would say most businesses look for good photography since poor photography won't add value to their product or service - especially in this case if you go back to the OP.

I covered the marketing aspect in my analogy - I think the chances of the marketing bigwig from Tesco happening upon your pies as a result of random largesse are low. Far better to send a special sample of my pie directly to the buyer, rather than lining the stomach of irrelevant middlemen in the hope that one day I'll be 'discovered'.
Click to expand...

If the barriers are low or non-existent and the market is saturated with copycat competition of all skill levels willing to almost or literally give it away then you haven't got a viable business unless you differentiate yourself in some way. Someone else will take up the offer and take the credit or use it to network whilst you pat yourself on the back for refusing. Your way is guaranteed to yield nothing.

On the pies if you go into supermarkets or even small shops you'll see free samples being handed out. This can boost sales and has an element of reciprocity for the potential customer, which is better than preaching to the converted by giving the unsold pies to friends and family.
 
Laudrup said:
On the pies if you go into supermarkets or even small shops you'll see free samples being handed out. This can boost sales
Click to expand...
There's a difference between handing out free samples to potential paying customers and handing out free products to middlemen and relinquishing control over whether any potential customers will ever receive the sample.
In the OPs case, the image is likely to be used in marketing aimed at end-user photographers - hobbyist and professionals. I doubt that is a large market for selling photographs to. The likelihood of a pictures editor seeing the marketing is there, but there are probably more effective direct routes to getting your work seen than hoping for a promised credit from a company with a dubious record with the community.
 
Last edited:
yorkshirechap said:
The company behind Triggertrap is worth about the same as a new Ford Mondeo it seems. So I'm guessing the Kickstarter campaign didn't go too well. :clap:
Click to expand...

I think they managed to raise quite a lot from Kickstarter, in fact far more than was originally envisaged as being necessary. Your guess is as good as mine with respect to where the money ended up, but they are telling their backers that the cash disappeared into development costs and that they can only refund 20% of the pledges. They have a lot of unhappy people to deal with and it will be interesting to see where this ends up.
 
The figures I heard were - they asked for 50,000, got 300,000 and spent 80% of that developing and building a prototype, but had to abandon because production costs were going to be 3x estimate and they couldn't afford to produce enough products to meet the KS pledge, let alone have enough left to generate some stock to sell.
Some pretty dire project management there.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how their production costs ended up at three times what was estimated, that sounds dodgy. I can understand costs being 30% more than envisaged, but not 300%.

I imagine the people who are out of pocket can't even take action against them to recoup their loss, easy enough to liquidate a company and just set up another one.
 
Lindsay D said:
I wonder how their production costs ended up at three times what was estimated, that sounds dodgy. I can understand costs being 30% more than envisaged, but not 300%.
Click to expand...
Tooling costs for injection moulding would be my bet. That can get very expensive, very quickly - and the tooling needs to be developed and paid for up-front. It's not something where there are short-cuts either.
 
Lindsay D said:
I wonder how their production costs ended up at three times what was estimated, that sounds dodgy. I can understand costs being 30% more than envisaged, but not 300%.

I imagine the people who are out of pocket can't even take action against them to recoup their loss, easy enough to liquidate a company and just set up another one.
Click to expand...
The KS debacle was funding for their second product 'Ada'. The original product is still being sold, so they wouldn't want to let the company go under and lose the patent.
 
Alastair said:
Tooling costs for injection moulding would be my bet. That can get very expensive, very quickly - and the tooling needs to be developed and paid for up-front. It's not something where there are short-cuts either.
Click to expand...

I see, but would they not have known that beforehand? It seems they've developed other products in the past so they're not new to doing this. I feel so sorry for the backers who've lost their money.
 
Lindsay D said:
I see, but would they not have known that beforehand? It seems they've developed other products in the past so they're not new to doing this. I feel so sorry for the backers who've lost their money.
Click to expand...
Maybe they should have known. But more worrying is the lack of financial controls that should have spotted this coming after the project started and a general lack of business acumen.

But Kickstarter is a gamble, it's a risky funding model for the backer and there's a lot of chancers putting up half-cocked business plans. But compared to Indiegogo it's a beacon of investment sanity. There's some really dodgy sh*t in the backwaters of crowdfunding.. ..
 
Alastair said:
Tooling costs for injection moulding would be my bet. That can get very expensive, very quickly - and the tooling needs to be developed and paid for up-front. It's not something where there are short-cuts either.
Click to expand...

But those costs should be quantifiable with a modest margin of error. Obviously a one up prototyping tool used on low tonnage press would not be suitable for full scale production but once the prototype is "right" the costs for the multi part tool used on say 260 tonne press should be quotable.

Everything I read says their business model is flawed if the original products are not generating enough profit to pay suppliers so they turn to kickstater to raise funds likely because conventional sources of funding saw them as way too high a risk for whatever reasons revealed themselves during the plan analysis and due diligent.

Reminds of one or two candidates in Dragons Den where when challenged hard reveal they are trying it on!
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
So Laudrup , Let me get this straight - a person sets up a company and takes money from people for the product which does not exist on the pretence of developing and finishing it then refuses to give the money back and walks away , this same person extorts images for free from photographers with some sort of offer of payment of equipment which costs them next to nothing anyway.

And you think this is all well and good and a model we should be encouraging amateur photographers to follow ?

If so please let me have your contact details as I am sure i can come up with some hair-brain scheme to part you with your money too.
Click to expand...

Have you never heard of kickstarter?
 
Laudrup said:
Funny how you can pick and choose who to help based on a whim or charge higher prices and 'push your luck' but if someone else tries it they can go f*** themselves. A bit hypocritical, no? In this situation there doesn't look to be an unlimited well for the hard-nosed to drain dry so the OP gets maybe some goods from a small startup and a little piece of credit that may lead to other things or it may not. Using your gimme gimme gimme approach it would have definitely led to nothing.

As for pros moaning about people giving it away for free, if a kid with an iPhone can deprive you of putting food on your table then get another job. The democratisation of the camera has already happened and the genie won't be going back into the bottle.
Click to expand...

Once again loudburp you are talking from your posterior - of course we (anyone) can choose who to help - personally I'm happy to help people who are genuine, i'm not happy to help criminals or charlatans - not a hard concept to grasp

also pros arent moaning about people giving away for free because they are afraid of the competition - you only have to look at the quality of Lindsay's work to see she has nothing to be afraid of .on that score ... the point here (once again) is about advising people not to get ripped off... again not a hard concept to grasp.

Also the democritisation of the camera is utter crap - there is nothing on the market that will enable you, me or uncle tom cobbley to shoot like Lindsay - that takes talent and experience and you can't buy that in jessops

(and kickstarter vet their applicants - fruadsters get the boot)
 
big soft moose said:
(and kickstarter vet their applicants - fruadsters get the boot)
Click to expand...
For a limited value of "vetting" - the bampots still get through.

There's very little verification of business plans from what I have heard.
 
Im not sure where this thread is headed any more but it seems to me that the moral of the story is simple - don't give stuff away. In this case it has ended up with ynot unknowingly supporting a venture which has seen hundreds of people lose money and he himself has admitted if he had looked into it further he would not have gone ahead.

So if even the original OP is regretting the decision to give away the image what's the argument ?
 
There's argument that this shouldn't have been unknowingly. It's been a couple of months since the venture in question announced the project was FUBAR.

But failures happen and it's part of business. Way back when I studied this sort of thing it was pointed out that in the UK a bankruptcy or business failure marks you out as a leper, whereas in the US the culture tends to regard such things as a lesson learned and one less mistake you won't make again - get back on your feet and try again.
 
Alastair said:
Way back when I studied this sort of thing it was pointed out that in the UK a bankruptcy or business failure marks you out as a leper, whereas in the US the culture tends to regard such things as a lesson learned and one less mistake you won't make again - get back on your feet and try again.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do think there is far less stigma attached to a business failure in the USA - I used to live over there and the culture surrounding money is totally different than it is here. However, lessons aren't always learned. There are too many 'entrepreneurs' who are prepared to play roulette with other peoples investments, with little sense of personal accountability. I suspect that is where the stigma element arises from. Of course honest people can go bankrupt, perhaps if a business partner embezzles or deceives them, or if suppliers become bankrupt themselves, or simply poor business understanding. But it can also be down to negligence, dishonesty or theft. It's hard to know where the business under discussion in this thread lies, but their learning experience doesn't appear to be entirely at their expense.
 
Last edited:
big soft moose said:
Once again loudburp you are talking from your posterior - of course we (anyone) can choose who to help - personally I'm happy to help people who are genuine, i'm not happy to help criminals or charlatans - not a hard concept to grasp

also pros arent moaning about people giving away for free because they are afraid of the competition - you only have to look at the quality of Lindsay's work to see she has nothing to be afraid of .on that score ... the point here (once again) is about advising people not to get ripped off... again not a hard concept to grasp.

Also the democritisation of the camera is utter crap - there is nothing on the market that will enable you, me or uncle tom cobbley to shoot like Lindsay - that takes talent and experience and you can't buy that in jessops

(and kickstarter vet their applicants - fruadsters get the boot)
Click to expand...

Much like your moniker the content of your post resembles something large, smelly and brown. Who died and made you the guardian of stopping people getting 'ripped off' anyway? Why is it ok for Lindsey to try to try her luck for a higher price to milk people and not for someone to try for a lower price or free?

There are virtually no barriers to entry and you need no qualifications or certificates or awards. You can pretend you need all this 'talent' and skill and whatever other barriers you throw up but you don't really. I could give my camera and lens to someone who has never touched it and they could stand in the same place, look at the exif and recreate the shot exactly and give it away for free. No talent or skill required, just the ability to read a few numbers and click a button. Kids with iPhones are producing good shots with nothing more than pointing and shooting. No workshops or college courses or anything else required.

As for Kickstarter they can't see into the future and only sanction start-ups that will succeed.
 
Alastair said:
There's argument that this shouldn't have been unknowingly. It's been a couple of months since the venture in question announced the project was FUBAR.

But failures happen and it's part of business. Way back when I studied this sort of thing it was pointed out that in the UK a bankruptcy or business failure marks you out as a leper, whereas in the US the culture tends to regard such things as a lesson learned and one less mistake you won't make again - get back on your feet and try again.
Click to expand...

They seem pretty active on twitter for being FUBAR:

https://BANNED/triggertrap

The OP had his picture posted on there in early June which he favourited and retweeted, so at least it is made aware to 14,800 followers instead of his 153 followers. It seems a good idea for a product but kickstarters can be very volatile.
 
Last edited:
Laudrup said:
Much like your moniker the content of your post resembles something large, smelly and brown. Who died and made you the guardian of stopping people getting 'ripped off' anyway?
Click to expand...

internet forum in discussion shocker .. hold the front page

I could give my camera and lens to someone who has never touched it and they could stand in the same place, look at the exif and recreate the shot exactly and give it away for free. No talent or skill required, just the ability to read a few numbers and click a button. .
Click to expand...

rubbish - unless your shots are utter crap of course - someone standing in the same place and copying your exif will f*** up the exposure because the light will be different - also getting a shot right the first time isnt the same as copying someonelses

The reason that Lindsay is an incredibly gifted proffesional and you basically arent isn't down to the gear she uses , its down to her ability behind the camera. Likewise the reason Lindsay is worth listening to is that she knows what shes talking about and puts it over in a reasoned manner..
 
Laudrup said:
You can pretend you need all this 'talent' and skill and whatever other barriers you throw up but you don't really. I could give my camera and lens to someone who has never touched it and they could stand in the same place, look at the exif and recreate the shot exactly and give it away for free. No talent or skill required, just the ability to read a few numbers and click a button. Kids with iPhones are producing good shots with nothing more than pointing and shooting.

.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that someone with a good eye, and an iPhone, could make some creative photographs - and one might even be snapped up as a freebie. The vast majority of hobbyist photos out there are drivel, for exactly the reasons you state - the person behind the camera has no technical or creative skills and the photographs they produce consequently have little value (it's an easy one to put to the test). Most of my mates have cameras, but I'm not aware of any businesses beating their way to their doors wanting their photos. They might end up in the local rag, but no business owner in their right mind would attach those photographs to any product of value. It's the skilled and experienced amateurs further up the food train, like the OP, who are the most likely to be approached and taken advantage of, because a lot of businesses will spot talent and use the 'we'll help you get your work out there' line. So by your reasoning, a photographer seeking to gain a fair price in exchange for for his or her photograph is 'milking someone', but a business seeking to profit from someone else's efforts whilst offering nothing in return - isn't? This is where your argument is fundamentally flawed and frankly irrational. By the same token, anybody who creates any kind of commodity which has value to somebody else, is 'trying their luck' in expecting payment for it?
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
Which is pretty much why everyone is in disagreement with you. Not delivering a product results in no business sooner or later.
Click to expand...
Actually, on that one point I agree with Laudrup. The possibility of failure to deliver is a risk that every backer of a Kickstarter project must accept.

Kickstarter is not a 100% guaranteed investment - but a lot of it's audience aren't really clued up on what it is and a lot of those seeking projects don't think things through very well. It's an immature funding platform and there are still a lot of issues being resolved. Just this week I came across this story - http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/ftc-goes-after-fraudulent-board-game-kickstarter/

I've backed a few projects, but only small investments and mostly where the immediately available reward is sufficient to make the investment worthwhile and any long-term rewards are gravy on top. The only one I've backed that's still to complete is GOIO, and whilst their schedule has slipped they're still on track for a (delayed) release.

The most obvious problems with too many Kickstarter projects I've seen are going in with an inappropriate product for the funding method, and most commonly going to crowdfunding too early with an immature product design and insufficient data for a budgeted business plan. Crowdfunding is seen as the easy option compared to generating a proper business plan and funding case to present to VCs or the bank. In many cases a bank loan would be better for the project - it would enforce project management discipline and would cost less.

The ideal project for Kickstarter already has a fully developed/tested prototype, quotes for the manufacturing/production and distribution, a business plan that includes contingencies and is essentially only asking for up-front payment on orders before going into full-scale production. This is how Lomography have worked their Petzel projects, for example. It manages the risk to the backers and provides the project with a positive cash flow post-development and pre-manufacture.
 
big soft moose said:
internet forum in discussion shocker .. hold the front page

rubbish - unless your shots are utter crap of course - someone standing in the same place and copying your exif will f*** up the exposure because the light will be different - also getting a shot right the first time isnt the same as copying someonelses

The reason that Lindsay is an incredibly gifted proffesional and you basically arent isn't down to the gear she uses , its down to her ability behind the camera. Likewise the reason Lindsay is worth listening to is that she knows what shes talking about and puts it over in a reasoned manner..
Click to expand...

They can copy your shot easily and it requires no skill or training or gift or being professional. Digital means you can take 10,000 shots and bin 9,999 and nobody would ever know. The gear always helps, that's why the talk equipment forum is so busy and the 'I was born with the mystical photographic eye' forum isn't.

I looked at Lindsay's site and there are some nice pictures but I can see the same quality or better on flickr or forums etc done by people for fun that I could probably get for free or a small outlay, so why would I pay for it from a pro if I was a business? Much like Lindsay overcharging to maximise profits why wouldn't you look to save money to maximise profits? Why is ask and you might get only one way? Lindsay saying she charges more only benefits her, at least a company looking to barter goods or give you a credit is actually trying to do something for both parties, no matter how token or futile you think it is.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top