Im seriously considering *gulp* large format.

Messiah Khan

Messiah Khan

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Alasdair Fowler
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Following my 'enlightenment' that I really need film, medium format and large format experience under my belt for by career ambitions I am seriously considering getting a basic LF setup. I have looked for courses to give me experience, but there seems to be a distinct lack of suitable ones, and once you pay for them, with my logic, you might as well have bought one youself and donw lots of reading and playing.

So from anyone who uses or has used large format cameras, any tips or suggestions would be greatly welcome. After a bit of basic research, I think im leaning towards something like a Sinar F2. I realise that a monorail would be harder to use and carry out in the field, but im trying to find a balance between usability for my own work, and getting experience with the sort of equipment a studio would use (Which is the primary goal here). Would this be a good choice?

Say I get one of these, what is going to be the best and easiest way to create a final image? Ive been offered the chance to be given a full set of darkroom kit, but its unlikely the enlarger well take 5x4, and even if it did i've got nowhere to set up a darkroom. So what is the easiest and cheapest way to develop the negative, then scan it in? Also are there any good guides to how contact printing works? Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)
 
All you need for a B&W darkroom is a flat surface big enough to hold 3 trays, for years I used the top of a chest of drawers in my bedroom and the bathroom sink for washing., putting the kit away in a cupboard when not in use. If you buy a changing bag for transferring film into the developing tank/holder then the rest of the work can be done in daylight or redlight.
 
I'd seriously suggest you also try and pick up copies of "The Camera" "The Negative" and "The Print" by Ansel Adams (they can be had pretty cheaply on Amazon) These books were written by a man who grew up on large format cameras and had a deep understanding of how to get the best out of his kit.

If you've not done any processing/printing before then "Photographic Printing" by Gene Nocon is a good starter and again can be had for little money on Amazon.
 
If you get into developing you really will move to "The Dark side"
 
A lot of my formal training ( years ago now) was based around large format cameras, such as the Sinar

To be blunt, to use one of these cameras properly you do really need to be taught. OK yes you can go out and buy a Sinar camera, good choice, but unless you are competent with it you wont get the results or the experience.

What many people don't understand is that these large format cameras are designed to make them flexible. The camera has movements that allow both the lens panel and the film holder to be moved independently for various effects and techniques, not just to make it look silly and give people a laugh.

I'm not saying don't go out and buy all this kit, but unless you know how to use it then it really will be a waste of money. Training courses are expensive, but I do seriously suggest you look at them.

Another thing to bear in mind is the majority of commercial studios who use LF now tend to use them with digital backs as well, such as the Phase One range and those from the US company Betterlight
 
I have used 5x4 for 25+ years now so heres my feelings:-
1) Decide where you are going to shoot. If outside buy a field camera. A sinar f2 in strong wind = expensive kite. Think of what the greats such as Adams and Weston used and its a field camera every time. Look at Linhof, and Gandolfi if you realy want something special. Leave the Sinar in the Studio.

2) Lenses tend tobe priced by the size of the image circle they produce. A large Image Circle means a lot of Movements/Adjustments are available to the photographer. In an ideal world a lens with enough coverage for a 10x8 camera would be superb on 5x4, although it would cost a lot more than a lens designed with 5x4 coverage. In essence if Architecture is your thing go for a lens with the largest coverage available.

3) Remember that the shutter is inside the lens and may or may not be included in the price.

4) If processing your own I would recommend starting with Black and White as the process is more tolerant than colour where temperature can be a real issue.

5) I would suggest processing with one tray if poss 5x7 (for 5x4 film)to ensure that the chemicals flow over the sheet and avoid the sheet "floating with the flow" and making even development difficult if not impossible.

6) I use one dish only and at the end of the development time ADD a 10% Stop Bath solution to the developer in the dish. This immediately kills the developer/development of the film and allows time to empty the contents into a bucket, before adding the fixer bath to the dish. Two minutes later you can put a safe light on and come out of the dark.

7) The advantages of this one dish system is that you do not touch the film which when wet is very soft and prone to damage. I use 100ml of developer per sheet and this is discarded after each sheet as the Stop Bath has effectively killed it.

8) Washing takes place in the same tray with several (5) baths of fresh water left for 60 seconds each(not a constant flow) Use chemical migration to clean the film in the same way that if you wish to remove a stuborn stain from some clothes you soak it rather than hold it under a tap.

9) For reading material the standard is View Camera Techniques by Leslie Stroebel published by Focal Press.

Finally the best of luck. If I can offer any help or advice just drop a line. Remember that the bigger the film the bigger the faults look. The rewards are great but you have to care and be "professional" in your technique.
 
Great idea MK - if you're truly into perfecting your 'art' then go for it.

I shot 5x4 throughout my three years at university and loved every minute of it, even the annoying times in the darkroom when I was loading film into the backs and once exposed, trying to slide them properly into the devving canister. :)

I used a cambo 5x4 (monorail) for a lot of outdoor landscape photography. The main things I found were needing a huge amount of film backs if you're going to be 100% hassle free – loading film into a back using a bag may work but you have to ultra-confident that you're doing it right when the sun's high in the sky!
A seriously big tripod is required. Better start buying stocks and shares in body-building drinks!! Also, learn how to use the camera properly in a studio/indoor environment. If you're not 100% sure of how things work, you'll waste time out in the field.

The big questions about moving to large format is "Why"? Do you want the benefits of tilt 'n shift (Scheimpflug), the extra definition from the bigger neg or do you just want the crazy rebate you get around the edges?

There seems to be some very good deals on LF cameras these days so i hope you find something suitable and that you ultimately enjoy it.
 
Dont forget what Large Format does to your approach to photography. Shot are more considered. Exposures measured with more precision. Images tend to be more "Static" due to the nature of the format. It is a total world away from the casual nature of digital/35mm.

I would suggest you hire an outfit first and shoot some 5x4 slides and have them professionally processed. This will show you the quality of the kit and reveal and limitations in your technique as slide film is not very forgiving.

Remember colleges (correctly) use what is available to them so the fact that college students took a monorail into the field does not make it the right choice. Look at what people who had the choice used and again look at Adams, Weston, John Sexton etc. These guys are the pinacle and ALL chose field camara over monrail.
 
Anima Templi said:
Dont forget what Large Format does to your approach to photography. Shot are more considered. Exposures measured with more precision. Images tend to be more "Static" due to the nature of the format. It is a total world away from the casual nature of digital/35mm.
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Completely agree. Inseatd of shooting a 56-exposure roll of film for one shot or filling up a CF card you'll take your time just to press the shutter once.


Remember colleges (correctly) use what is available to them so the fact that college students took a monorail into the field does not make it the right choice. Look at what people who had the choice used and again look at Adams, Weston, John Sexton etc. These guys are the pinacle and ALL chose field camara over monrail.
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Purely down to what the user can afford. I would suggest renting though. A few grand on setup is a hell of a lot to spend just to see what something is like!

Also, shoot to take YOUR style of photograph and not to emulate someone else. you're obviously a VERY talented photographer jusdging by your galleries so use Adams (etc) as resource but don't copy - it's be a waste of your talent.
 
I personally don't see any reason that you shouldn't teach yourself about using a LF camera. It is complicated and there is an awful lot to get your head around but it's not rocket science.

The principles of camera movements are much like the other aspects of photography. Once it gels it's there for good and I think you'd get your head around it pretty quickly.

As for the camera, I've have and used quite a few but the one I'll be getting next will be the good old Linhof Technikardan. It's a brilliant bit of kit and can cope as studio camera, mountaintop machine and at a push, I'd happily stick a digiback on it.
 
With you 100% Dazzajl and Special. The Linhof is a superb bit of kit. You need to be practical when buying any kit but particularly Large Format as it is expensive. All my lenses are Schneider Linhof engraved just in case I ever got one. Haven't managed it yet, but there's still time.
 
Thanks a lot everyone. This is all very informative and helpfull, and its nice to know that there are people on here that have used LF.

Chappers said:
Another thing to bear in mind is the majority of commercial studios who use LF now tend to use them with digital backs as well, such as the Phase One range and those from the US company Betterlight
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Yeah, this one one area that I realise that I will have to be exposed to eventually, but there is no way I can afford to buy a digital back. Ive 'acquired' Phase one Capture one to have a play around with and that seems pretty simple. The hardware side though I will need to go on a course or just wait until I get exposed to it in a job. I think if I learn about LF film first it will better prepare me for this and allow me to pick it up faster.

specialman said:
The big questions about moving to large format is "Why"? Do you want the benefits of tilt 'n shift (Scheimpflug), the extra definition from the bigger neg or do you just want the crazy rebate you get around the edges?
Click to expand...

From a personal point of view, I want higher quality images, especially the ability to make larger prints. I would also like to experiment with tilt and shift. From a more immediate and practical point of view, I want to learn the ins and outs of LF photography, and get to grips with the nuances that LF equipment presents in order to increase my chances of getting a photography assistant type job.

Anima Templi said:
Dont forget what Large Format does to your approach to photography. Shot are more considered. Exposures measured with more precision. Images tend to be more "Static" due to the nature of the format. It is a total world away from the casual nature of digital/35mm.

I would suggest you hire an outfit first and shoot some 5x4 slides and have them professionally processed. This will show you the quality of the kit and reveal and limitations in your technique as slide film is not very forgiving.
Click to expand...

Yeah I realise that it will all be a much slower and more considered approach. This is something im not entirely unfamiliar with as i've done a fair amount of long exposure work on my DSLR, often resulting in 10minute+ exposures, again slowing me down and making me double check all the settings first etc. Its a style I quite like as it does make you appreciate the scene you are shooting as well as making the final result all the more rewarding.

Where would you get 5x4 shots professionally developed and how much is this likely to cost? Even if I buy the kit, I feel this might be a more practical solution for the time being. It will allow me to concentrate on learning LF techniques without having to learn about developing at the same time, which might end up somewhat overwhelming.

specialman said:
so use Adams (etc) as resource but don't copy - it's be a waste of your talent.
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Don't worry. From what i've seen of his work, im not a huge fan of Ansel Adams anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that. ;)

dazzajl said:
As for the camera, I've have and used quite a few but the one I'll be getting next will be the good old Linhof Technikardan. It's a brilliant bit of kit and can cope as studio camera, mountaintop machine and at a push, I'd happily stick a digiback on it.
Click to expand...

The Linhof Technikardan looks a bit out of my pricerange. I realise what you all are saying about field cameras, but my primary aim in getting a LF camera is to educate me and prepare me for studio work so I feel a monorail would be more suitable. Id also like to start shooting some more commercial type photography (Food, still life etc). At the moment the Sinar F2 and Horseman LE are the frontrunners. Again, thanks for all the help, it really is usefull. :)
 
In London try Photofusion:-
http://www.photofusion.org/index.htm

Unsure outside there. With Adams his use of Large Format technique far exceeds his vision and I was recommending you to look at his shots principally with a view to work out what movements were involved. His technique and understanding of how Large format cameras work exceeds all others. Just look at some of his still lifes and consider how his techniques could be used on any commercial shot, or de applied if known and considered.
 
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