I'm in a quandry

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Jabbs101

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Steve
Edit My Images
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I don't know whether its me or my gear (I'm hoping its me!), but I just don't seem able to take a shot these days thats sharp enough for me to be happy with.
I'm currently switching between a Canon 5D3 and 7D2 body on a 500mm prime lens, as my current fave thing to do is wildlife shots. But I'm really not nailing it, and try as I might to adjust settings and even bodies, I can't seem to get a shot thats clear enough for me to be happy with.

Talking to and looking at some friends shots, who all use Nikon gear, I've started to think maybe I should switch. They really DO take some stunningly clear shots. But that would be a big upheaval.

Arrrgrh ... don't know what to do. Appreciate this is a very open ended thread starter, but does anyone have any pearls of wisdom?
 
I would start by putting your camera on a tripod and using a cable release of some sort. Put a target on a wall or fence at the distance you take most shots and take a few shots at different speeds and apertures. See what the results are like compared to manual focus using the screen in a zoomed mode.

It may be that you need to adjust back or front focus for your lens. At distance any slight focus problems will be amplified.

Both the 5d3 and 7d2 have back focus adjustment, it's worth time adjusting your body to your lens. It could also be that your lens needs servicing and readjusting.
 
I've never used a 500mm, but it sounds unlikely it's the kit. If you search I'm sure you can find plenty of people with good sharp images with those combinations - unless you have a dodgy lens and \ or something is not calibrated correctly, it sounds like it might be you (sorry!).

Best thing would be to post some photos with exif and see of those better qualified than me can give some helpful advice. Alternatively maybe book yourself on a day with a wildlife photographer - would likely be a lot cheaper than changing systems and you might pick up skills that would be transferable across systems \ alternatively it might show an issue with your set-up?

Good luck!
 
Thanks guys. I dont doubt for a second that the issue here is me, but I'm out of ideas as to what to do next. Chris ... I'll try what you suggested. I'm not familiar with "back focus adjustment" so will look that up.
 
When you say "500mm Prime", do you mean a Canon EF 500/4 IS or a Samyang/Opteka/Sigma variant?
 
Without examples it's impossible to offer advice.

Are you handholding. How much cropping are you doing on the files. Is your shutter speed too low. Does it need MA. Could be one of these or more than one.

Switching systems isn't the answer. You need to methodically check your bodies with that lens in a repeatable and controlled set up. This means tripod, good light, max aperture, IS off, shutter speed at least 1/focal length of the lens, not forgetting to take the crop factor into account. Say 1/1000 minimum.

Then shoot some high contrast targets and see what you get. A flat target will get you started but ideally a set up that allows you to see where the DOF is would be better.
 
Eliminate user error first. Google 'Long lens technique'. Plenty of Youtube vids on the subject.
 
ChrisH said:
I would start by putting your camera on a tripod and using a cable release of some sort. Put a target on a wall or fence at the distance you take most shots and take a few shots at different speeds and apertures. See what the results are like compared to manual focus using the screen in a zoomed mode.

It may be that you need to adjust back or front focus for your lens. At distance any slight focus problems will be amplified.

Both the 5d3 and 7d2 have back focus adjustment, it's worth time adjusting your body to your lens. It could also be that your lens needs servicing and readjusting.
Click to expand...

akr said:
I've never used a 500mm, but it sounds unlikely it's the kit. If you search I'm sure you can find plenty of people with good sharp images with those combinations - unless you have a dodgy lens and \ or something is not calibrated correctly, it sounds like it might be you (sorry!).

Best thing would be to post some photos with exif and see of those better qualified than me can give some helpful advice. Alternatively maybe book yourself on a day with a wildlife photographer - would likely be a lot cheaper than changing systems and you might pick up skills that would be transferable across systems \ alternatively it might show an issue with your set-up?

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Gaz J said:
Without examples it's impossible to offer advice.

Are you handholding. How much cropping are you doing on the files. Is your shutter speed too low. Does it need MA. Could be one of these or more than one.

Switching systems isn't the answer. You need to methodically check your bodies with that lens in a repeatable and controlled set up. This means tripod, good light, max aperture, IS off, shutter speed at least 1/focal length of the lens, not forgetting to take the crop factor into account. Say 1/1000 minimum.

Then shoot some high contrast targets and see what you get. A flat target will get you started but ideally a set up that allows you to see where the DOF is would be better.
Click to expand...

Ed Sutton said:
Eliminate user error first. Google 'Long lens technique'. Plenty of Youtube vids on the subject.
Click to expand...

As above ~ be structured & methodical to eliminate user error then you can determine if there is anything that needs adjusting in/on the kit.

I look forward to seeing your posting examples with exif!
 
Cheers Guys .. lots of good advice.

@Canon Bob ... apologies I was referring to a Canon EF500/4 IS lens.

Will try and post a sample ...
 
OK hopefully this will post. This is a raw image shot a day or two ago ....

dateposted
dateposted
https://www.flickr.com/photos/64531140@N04/37906399985/in/dateposted/

dateposted
 
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Can someone let me know how to post images, or point me to a tutorial please. Ta
 
Copy and paste the BB code and make sure it's not set to private
 
Ahh it WAS set to private. Al that shot I threw up earlier for someoen to identify. I thow that ones well out of focus. Let me try again ...

37906399985_f5c36cb08a_b.jpg
 
OK see here is a case in point. Looking at it "as is" its not too bad, but the minute you enhance its blurred. I know its underexposed.

How do I post the EXIF info, or can you get it from this shot?
 
Are you copying the BBcode as that will give the link to your Flickr too
 
After tweaking in Lightroom it looks like this, which is more what I was trying to achieve in the first place. Exposure aside, this has been sharpened somewhat.
Oh meant to say I'm using a tripod with a gimble head, but not a shutter release. Am manually hitting that button (carefully!).

24919680488_a854b5e2d5_b.jpg
 
Looks like you're attaching a file as opposed to linking through to your Flickr. The forum degrades IQ so to be able to click through is always best

I'd follow the link that Al posted (y)
 
Jabbs101 said:
After tweaking in Lightroom it looks like this, which is more what I was trying to achieve in the first place. Exposure aside, this has been sharpened somewhat.
Oh meant to say I'm using a tripod with a gimble head, but not a shutter release. Am manually hitting that button (carefully!).

24919680488_a854b5e2d5_b.jpg
Click to expand...
Is that a crop of the other image above? If it is that's quite a heavy crop. When you compare to friends images are you talking about when you have photographed side by side and comparing like for like? I too doubt it will be a kit issue, the canon 5d3 and 7d2 on 500 f4 should be as good as the Nikon equivalents.
 
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One thing I have always found, is that if your subject is less that 20% of the frame, the chances of you nailing it 100% are pretty remote. If I have to shoot that far away, I now use my scope....
 
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What is not explained in the OP or subsequently is how you are processing e.g.raw editing and then saving as a finished jpeg?

And how does that compare to what your Nikon owning friends are doing to make such different and as far as you say exceptional images!

As covered above until you eliminate pilot error.......then you need to reconcile why & how your results look inferior to the Nikon???
 
Get your friends to try your gear and see what results they get with it.
 
Same problem on both cameras, it's unlikely to be either camera or lens related, but you need to check AF micro-adjustment - very carefully - if only to put your mind at rest. Static subject, solid tripod, good light, zero wind, fast shutter speed, accurate focus, mirror-up, self-timer etc etc.

Using long lenses like that is difficult at the best of times, it takes total understanding of equipment (especially AF modes and settings), immaculate camera craft and holding technique, knowledge of best compromise solutions (you'll always be compromised one way or another), lots of practise, and then more practise. Work on your fieldcraft (get closer), cropping just throws away image quality, and it also magnifies camera-shake in the same way as fitting a longer lens. Be aware of atmospheric pollution when shooting at long range, eg invisible moisture in the air can kill sharpness. Shoot plenty - there's great safety in numbers when shutter speeds are marginal. Don't under-expose. Bone-up on post-processing.

Respect the fact that what you're trying to do is bluddy hard, even with best quality kit. Put the effort in :)
 
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Jabbs101 said:
I dont doubt for a second that the issue here is me
Click to expand...


You should!

Lenses are made with given tolérances that, in any case,
exceed those of the sensor positioning in the body. Front
or back focus are the conséquences of the tolérances.

I have 16 pro lenses and 4 pro bodies and I take care that
all lenses are fine tuned to all bodies… so I know that the
gear will render good results. With the AF-Fine Tune done,
I know that it I can only have no doubt it was MY fault. :cool:
 
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Jabbs101 said:
I don't know whether its me or my gear (I'm hoping its me!), but I just don't seem able to take a shot these days thats sharp enough for me to be happy with.
I'm currently switching between a Canon 5D3 and 7D2 body on a 500mm prime lens, as my current fave thing to do is wildlife shots. But I'm really not nailing it, and try as I might to adjust settings and even bodies, I can't seem to get a shot thats clear enough for me to be happy with.

Talking to and looking at some friends shots, who all use Nikon gear, I've started to think maybe I should switch. They really DO take some stunningly clear shots. But that would be a big upheaval.

Arrrgrh ... don't know what to do. Appreciate this is a very open ended thread starter, but does anyone have any pearls of wisdom?
Click to expand...

It won't be anything to do with the brand!
 
Jabbs101 said:
Talking to and looking at some friends shots, who all use Nikon gear, I've started to think maybe I should switch. They really DO take some stunningly clear shots. But that would be a big upheaval.
Click to expand...
It's not the gear. Switching brands will have essentially zero effect on the quality your images. But you know that.
 
@Jabbs101 if it’s any consolation when I first got my Canon 600f4 I was similarly frustrated. The above advice is good - spend time on the autofocus microadjust and whenever possible shoot from a tripod with cable release etc. something else to try is shooting in live view with 5 or 10x magnification if your subject is still enough. Good luck.
 
Looking at the shot Steve your just too far away .
Rob.
 
GyRob said:
Looking at the shot Steve your just too far away .
Rob.
Click to expand...

Could be as simple as that :)

Looking at the cropped version, that's a heavy 2x crop, meaning that if it's on the OP's 5D3 a 500mm lens becomes 1000mm equivalent, or 1600mm on a 7D2. That's pushing your luck at the best of times.
 
Jabbs101 said:
Arrrgrh ... don't know what to do. Appreciate this is a very open ended thread starter, but does anyone have any pearls of wisdom?
Click to expand...
I took a quick look at the few images viewable on your flickr and I see a trend.
You are nearly always at/near max aperture with very high SS's and relatively high ISO... in general, two out of three of those settings are going to be right for any given situation, all three combined just don't quite make sense.

Max aperture is generally going to be used to maintain the minimum SS and prevent a higher ISO. In almost every example you have way more SS than required, especially if on a tripod. Sometimes max aperture is used to provide separation, but in general a smaller aperture is preferred as it is sharper and provides more DOF which is a buffer for AF/movement.

The SS being higher than required is either requiring the max aperture, or the higher ISO... I'm a fan of high SS's for wildlife and long lenses but in many cases you're easily 2 stops faster than required, or even greater if a tripod was used.

And that leaves the ISO that is generally much higher than it needs to be. Which leads to global noise reduction in post, and global sharpening to recover. All of which is less than ideal, especially if the image was also underexposed to start with.

I suggest starting with basics... Set the aperture for optimal sharpness/DOF and set the SS to the minimum required, adjust ISO to maintain exposure. As a general rule I would suggest f/8 and 1/1000 for your setup; even on a gimbal head. In reality the settings may be inadequate or excessive for certain extremes, but they are about where you want to be ideally IMO. If the ISO is going so high as to ruin the images it means you need better light, not that the settings are wrong.

I notice that the exposure mode is reported as auto, and based upon the trends I would have to guess you are primarily using Tv mode. I hate that mode, I never use it... the only time it behaves anywhere near what I would want is when it's too dark to be taking pictures anyway. I would suggest you start using manual mode or manual with auto ISO if you cameras allow for that. Not because I think manual mode is better, I almost never use it. But because it's the only way I know to lock down aperture and SS simultaneously... and those are the two factors you need to be focused on and compromising only when absolutely required/desired.
Once you start getting consistently good images then you can start pushing the boundaries to find the limits of gear/technique/situations and improve as possible.

Or I could be completely off base...
 
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Having a quick look on my phone it looks like you didn't nail the focus point. The branch to the lower of the birds left claw appears to be cleaner. Don't hold me to this as I'm only having a look on a tiny phone screen, and also mentioned a heavy crop like that is not ideal. If you have space set up a target at around the distance you want to reach the same size as your subject and just keep practising until you can achieve your desired result.
 
Jabbs101 said:
After tweaking in Lightroom it looks like this, which is more what I was trying to achieve in the first place. Exposure aside, this has been sharpened somewhat.
Oh meant to say I'm using a tripod with a gimble head, but not a shutter release. Am manually hitting that button (carefully!).

24919680488_a854b5e2d5_b.jpg
Click to expand...

Haven't been to the hides at Forest farm recently - was that taken at the first or second hide? First hide is better for these wee beasties.

I can't see your shutter speeds or ISO but make sure your shutter speed is reasonably quick and that your IS is off. If you are heading to Forest Farm soon then drop me a PM and we can meet up and troubleshoot. You could try your cameras on my lens/my cameras on your lens so we could eliminate some options. The Canon 500 F4 L IS, at hide 1, should give you great images so long as the light is OK.
Attached is a shot from hide 2 (a bit more than double the distance) taken last year. Note this is straight out of the camera - just scaled for web so no sharpening/processing etc, exif should be intact.
 

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