I Think We Should Support This

No chance - I like skinny girls.

Parents: starve your daughters now! Else they'll never attract a husband and they'll still be living at home and leeching off you when they're 35...

Be warned!
 
I think they should issue an advisory note all all altered images of those in question here,

something like >

"Don't try to look like this as it is fake and will make you ill trying"

"This image is not set out to deceive the eye but if it sells the product so what"

"this image is not intended to alter the perception of your average 9 10 year old but we know how impressionable they are and what a easy target user group"

Merc
 
Arkady said:
No chance - I like skinny girls.

Parents: starve your daughters now! Else they'll never attract a husband and they'll still be living at home and leeching off you when they're 35...

Be warned!
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Do you have any idea how much they winge when hungry :lol: Not feasible ;)
 
Just joining in half way here...but I personally think there is a lot more to it than airbrushing.

the face that most of the are a size sweet f all, hours of make up by a pro etc.

There was something I seen on tv the otherday about bringing out a magazine for the more 'general' sized girls etc as they know it is becoming a problem of young girls getting depressed and obsessed with weight etc.

1..... Parents fault
2.....I cant see it being down to a photographic technique

Personally I think girls just do what they think men like, and they mainly care about what other girls will think.

I would rather have a lil meat on my girl than beign too skinny......skinny people remind me of the smell of pee :thinking: ...dont ask, childhood horror!!
 
The problem they are attempting to address goes way beyond magazines - and of course a ban is really quite futile and I certainly would not support it. More legislation in place of proper education? I think not.
You only have to look at the movies and to a lesser degree television to see why magazines are not the main issue.
The stories that actresses have to loose X pounds before they can get accepted into a role must have some basis in truth - but when they are perefectly healthy and look fine loosing weight before it begs the question why?
Adverts are designed to look fairly fake. The movies and TV are designed to look as real as possible.
 
Some very puerile and misogynistic posts on this thread.

<sarcasm>Course its nothing to do with media at all they have no influence whatsoever in lifestyle choices especially on impressionable young people. Wonder why most companies have a multi-million pound advertising budget, such a waste of money :shrug: </sarcasm>

Its easy to say its personal choice, helps us wash our hands of any responsibility. Personally I struggle to see the attraction of an illness that may very well kill you for no other reason other than lifestyle choice. It beggars belief that some seemingly intelligent posters can peddle that twaddle.

If it was all about personal choice then tell me why is it almost exclusively a disease that effect females, very few males suffer anorexia or bulimia. In fact most girls who suffer from eating disorders tend to be from middle class homes and are university educated. Hmm makes you wonder why that might be, go on stretch your brain and think about it before you go spouting the 'personal choice' cr@p

Steve
 
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Sorry, I'm agreeing with Nigel here. There is a huge perception in the rag mags that "this is what people look like", when it's clearly not. There's ample evidence out there to show airbrushing before and afters.

The problem is, that young girls will think that this is what people actually look like and do strive to look like them.

Case in point... Cher Lloyd on X-Factor. Clearly a clone of Cheryl Cole (why!?!) but she looks quite unhealthy with it. You can bet your life Cheryl doesn't look like her magazine photos all the time, but this 16yr old has seen them and now wants to look like them. She's even got the tattoo to match Cheryl's.
 
steve_v said:
Some very puerile and misogynistic posts on this thread.
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You expected anything different?

I agree with you, and I can't help be disapointed by the general reaction.
 
Sonriendo said:
Do you have any idea how much they winge when hungry :lol: Not feasible ;)
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I guess I'll find out in 14 years' time...lol

I watched 'Kick-Ass' the other day and Nick Cage's character is my new Fatherhood-Template.
I'll be taking Katy weapons-training as soon as she can stand the recoil of a 9mm Sig-Sauer P226 and I'll be enrolling her in Judo and Kung-Fu classes as soon as she's old enough to do that.

Mountain-biking will also be a father-daughter activity as well as hiking and rock-climbing.

That should keep her trim and fit - I have no need for fat kids. As long as she's working out and playing outdoors she can eat as much as she likes. Playstations etc. are banned from the house and there'll be no TV or computer in her room. Books will be acceptable presents.

Knowing that she's martial-arts and weapons-trained should also keep the scrotes away for a while longer - at least til she's off to Uni...
 
Have any of you actually read a woman mag?

It mainly consists of catching all these celebs at their worst. As in, naturally, no make up, normal walking down the street, looking minging to be honest... and they always do a comparison chart of the 'before and after' Even then thats beside the point....Everyone knows how touched up they are inc parents, who if they noticed they kids becoming obsessed should start to get a bit more involved etc.

I cant believe any one can put this down to airbrushing!! It doesnt make them look skinny....or am I doing the technique wrong?

They spend hours and hours on professional make up.......its not JUST airbrushing.

sorry but this is ridiculous to put it down to this.

Yes there is a problem, but banning air brushing isn't the way
 
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Sorry folks got to put my 2penny worth in here ,i as a father to 2 girls 20yr old 13 yr old i feel that it is not just air brushing or the way there brought up .Two of my daughters friends were being bullied at school as they were to fat and there lives were made hell by a certain few .1 of which tried to take her own life as the bulling got to far .Fortuantly the young girl in question is now the head of an anti bullying campaign for people in her position for girls and adults .It is not just in mags that cause problems but the outside world as well .
 
Well I'm going to side with the OP, and if anybody cares to a little research they find there is growing concern about the amount of image manipulation of women that goes into magazine photos.

It's being debate world wide with every increasing calls for some form of warning or label to say which images have been doctored and which haven't.

Yes removing the odd pimple is fine but has now got to an extreme level where they are shaving lbs of theses women and TOTALLY changing how they look.. There was an youtube vid going around a few years ago the should a right fat short hair women transform via PS to a perfect body with long flowing hair. Now if your client wants that well fine, but don't go round telling the world that's how you look, some of these magazine photos are boarding and fraud.

Not only are these image distortions of the truth and possibly give very young girls the wrong idea about how they should look , it shows how shallow they are, and what little self confidence these models and stars have.


Alisha Dixon did a very good program on this last year, and she could not get a simple shot of herself by a mag tog that was not altered, and it was said that EVERY single shot in a glamour/fashion magazine is photoshopped.



THIS IS WRONG and magazines should not be allowed to get away with lying.
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Aren't we second to the USA as a country with the worst obesity?

I suppose that must be down to all the magazines of size 20 models stuffing their faces...oh wait a minute....
 
I dont see where all this "would have to be ill to look like that" thing.

I rarely see a model that looks unhealthy, slim and feminine yes, but not boney and unhealthy. As far as im concerned its not about being skinny anyway its about being healthy. So if having healthy people in adverts is wrong then we really are beyond rescue as a race. Maybe its reality that is distorted, not peoples ideas of what beauty is, which is in the eye of the beholder anyway.


whiteflyer:
"Not only are these image distortions of the truth and possibly give very young girls the wrong idea about how they should look , it shows how shallow they are, and what little self confidence these models and stars have."

I think that shows how shallow and what little self-confidence the young girls have aswell though. Why do young girls look to celebrities and stars as role models? Because everyone, THE DONT HAVE A STRONG ROLE MODEL AT HOME!

puerile and misogynistic? There we go again, our opinions dont fit in with their idea of how life is, so we are just puerile and misogynistic.

Well i think some peoples opinions are naive and show lack of wisdom.

But hey, at least were sorting through an important issue, so we are being productive i suppose.
 
I'm afraid I won't be supporting this, while the OP means well, this probably isn't the right place for it. Many here make a living from photography and retouching.
Secondly I'm not convinced that retouching images is more to blame than the skinny size 0 models used in many of the publications, I suspect that has a far bigger impact coupled with peer pressure, than thinning some models arm, yes there are extreme examples but they are few and far between in the real world.
 
Like the one where they turned Beyonce white?

Have a look at the Ralph Lauren example too http://ethicalstyle.com/2009/10/ralph-lauren-over-photoshops-super-skinny-model/

It's a lot more widespread than you think and personally I would hate to think that young girls are being adversely affected by these images. Anyone old enough to remember "Video killed the radio star"? well it did. We no longer have the Alison Moyets of the musical world. You cannot suceed in the media driven music industry if you are over a size 8 (That can go for boys too Ric Waller anyone?)

I think it is all very well promoting a healthy lifestyle but the risk is that those who don't fit with what "healthy" is supposed to look like end up being excluded which feeds low self esteem with feeds depression which feeds eating disorders and more weight gain... it's a vicious circle.

Sitting at a PC or TV shovelling crisps and chocolate is not healthy but neither is anorexia and both need dealing with. And sometimes that does mean personal responsibility and sometimes that means collective responsibility.
 
Adey said:
Im sorry Nigel but girls dont go down the anorexia route because of advertising.
Girls go down that route because of major issues based in their family and social life.
People have always found ways to self abuse, because of depression and psychological issues, anorexia is just a vehicle. If we didnt have posters and magazines it would be something else.

People really need to start taking responabilty for there actions. We used to use religion as a way of shirking our responsibilities, now we blame murder on GTA and anorexia on the glamour industy. Why dont peole start taking seriously that fact that most people dont know how to raise kids properly, how would that sound in the houses of parliment?

Oh no we cant have that, its gotta all be someone elses fault.
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I was away to write that it's not th epictures that cause the problems but then read this and it pretty much sims up what i was going to write s-
+1
 
Why in this country do we want to ban everything?

Yes kids are impressionable but that is life.

My eldest boys was chubby when he was 14. Decided he didn't want to be like that anymore, so he decided he wouldn't stop off for a bag of chips and a coke on the way home from school.

He joined a gym instead and now looks great. Hasn't got the 6 pack yet but he's on the way.

No one ever said it was easy to bring up kids, but educate them.



My 12 year old has a few mates who have 6 packs. He is now doing pressups and pull-ups and is looking great.
 
I can't imagine the majority of airbrushed photos of models make them look thinner anyway, as they appear on TV and are still thin. Take the above example of Cheyl Cole. On X Factor when she walks in she looks like a bean pole and her clothes just hang off her. Even if she had absolutely no editing done in a photo, she will still appear too thin. All the moaning about airbrushing is missing the whole point of issue really and would make absolutely no difference. Anorexia is a disorder, not something you catch from reading magazines. What is more likely to cause girls problems is bullying and poor family life resulting in low self esteem. Instead of wasting money campaigning about this, money should be put into sports and other activities which could sort out both overweight and underweight problems far better as it creates a healthier lifestyle and boosts self esteem.
 
Adey said:
Im sorry Nigel but girls dont go down the anorexia route because of advertising.
Girls go down that route because of major issues based in their family and social life.
People have always found ways to self abuse, because of depression and psychological issues, anorexia is just a vehicle. If we didnt have posters and magazines it would be something else.

People really need to start taking responabilty for there actions. We used to use religion as a way of shirking our responsibilities, now we blame murder on GTA and anorexia on the glamour industy. Why dont peole start taking seriously that fact that most people dont know how to raise kids properly, how would that sound in the houses of parliment?

Oh no we cant have that, its gotta all be someone elses fault.
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Well spoken M`Lord, I am with you 100% on what you have stated :thumbs:
 
Adey said:
I<snip>I think that shows how shallow and what little self-confidence the young girls have aswell though. Why do young girls look to celebrities and stars as role models? Because everyone, THE DONT HAVE A STRONG ROLE MODEL AT HOME!<snip>
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I just wanted to highlight this...

I went out with someone who as time progressed slipped into quite severe Bulimia and eventually Anorexia, she came from a nice family, 2 siblings, loving parents with a good background, education, upbringing etc.

She actually started working as a journalist for a magazine and finding herself surrounded by people thinner than her (and she was a healthy size 10) suddenly became very self-conscious and withdrawn.

The constant exposure to this industry where "thin = good" and "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" actually began to drive her to taking ever increasing measures to try and lose weight.

It started out fairly healthily...watching what we both ate (so less Carbs and better quality) and a good exercise regime of a bit of running and/or swimming. However, the results weren't good enough or fast enough for her.

So, she started cutting down her calorie intake massively and doing more exercise...I tried to help with her staying healthy in terms of food (I did all the cooking anyway) but it was to no avail...with hindsight there were some very glaringly obvious signs that it had progressed into bulimia that I could only now recognise.

Of course, this is when the weight started coming off drastically and her health started to suffer. I eventually confronted her about the issue, by which point her body couldn't actually handle much food so she had become anorexic. Unsurprisingly this became untenable both physically and mentally, and she left her job due to sickness and stress. She then plunged into depression, which only exacerbated the symptoms of her illness further.

It got to a point where she was refusing any help from anyone, least of all me and the time came when she collapsed on her way to a friends house. I got the dreaded police officer at the door and ended up rushing to hospital to find her.

We split up eventually for other reasons, but if you've ever watched someone you love suffer with what is a mental illness then it is extremely hard and often frustrating to deal with it.

Now, I'm not going to say that everyone will follow this same path from exposure to the modelling/fashion industry or by seeing retouched photos...but there are some people who by their very nature have a vulnerability or predisposition to emotional/mental illness. It's THESE people who suffer from a mental illness that can lead to death. Different people have different personalities and some can and will be more vulnerable and perhaps naive to these images.

It has nothing to do with role models at home, or using celebrities as role models...anorexia and body dysmorphia are mental illnesses and just as some people are more susceptible to heart disease or diabetes, so some people are more susceptible to mental illness.

I'm not sure whether this campaign would help those people who are more vulnerable to influence by retouched images, but it is something that I feel could go some way to helping. What's really necessary is a degree of understanding that everyone is different and no one size is "healthy"...judging by the comments on this thread so far, that is what is actually lacking and what would probably help the most.
 
AliB said:
We no longer have the Alison Moyets of the musical world. You cannot suceed in the media driven music industry if you are over a size 8 (That can go for boys too Ric Waller anyone?)

Now that i can agree with, you shouldnt need to be a hot mynx just to be allowed the right to be a successful musician.

Sitting at a PC or TV shovelling crisps and chocolate is not healthy but neither is anorexia and both need dealing with. And sometimes that does mean personal responsibility and sometimes that means collective responsibility.
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Again i agree, but if we are gonna deal with issues then we need to look at all aspects of what is causing the problems. And in my opinin i runs deeper than just TV and magazines. Tv has only been around 100 years, but depression, eating disorders and histrionic personality disorders have been around for millennia.

Y'know i do actually agree, to a point with what the OP is saying. Im sure if your having a hard time with self image its not easy seeing stunning people plastered all over the place. But if anything, its the way attractive people are held in higher esteem than most, and that lesser attractive people can receive undeserved lack of respect or entitlement. So i dont think photoshoping is really the crux of the issue, its people that are the issue.

If i see a bloke who is blatantly a fanny-magnet walking down the street with his pecs showing and chisled jaw and deep blue eyes, i do feel a slight pang of inadequacy, but then i remember all the things i've learned in life, and realise that im acctually happy with the way i look, and that there is more to life than being considered 'fit' or not. But i thank my parents for that, for having the wisdom and cheer bloody determination to instill in me, whats important in life and whats not.

So i do understand the issue here, thats why im being harsh, because its a big BIG issue. Being all sentimental and making grand gestures like sighing petitions may make you feel empowered, and an informed member of society, but your just turning the wheel in the hamster cage, the same old cycle of debate that gos on and on and never accomplishes everything.

Nobody ever wants the nitty gritty, we have to make up all these 'flavour-of the-month zeitgeisty fads', just so it looks like are problems can be solved much more simply than they actually can.

If you really think the world needs fixing, go fix it.

Dont come onto forums asking for people to sign petitions, its froth, its a mirage, its to pacify you, make you feel better. So stop posing, and do something. Become a councilor or start a youth scheme or something.

Some Radiohead poetry, if anyones interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK0njkATf84
 
All that would happen if retouching is banned is they would put more pressure on models to look perfect so they wouldn't need retouching. It is a futile effort that will die a swift death I'm afraid, even though the motivation behind it is applaudable, surely it is pretty obvious nothing will change.
 
Well

i love Marilyn Monroe and Rita Hayworth there shapes are what real women where made of.

look here

here

some answers to kids/parents question on issues

then how it affects them.

here as well

oh and here

there are loads of examples :thinking:

Merc
 
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From Mercmans first link;

itpdude says on 1/Jul/10
"By today's standards of fatty women, Marilyn would be called rail-thin. I can't believe American fat-chicks will call themselves "curvy." Curvy how? If I can't discern a waist or your boobs, you are not curvy. You are fat.

And Marilyn's so-called size 8 would be around a size 4 today. Get real, fatties."

Now thats misogynistic :lol:

From second link:

"Preventing eating disorder is clearly an issue that everyone will need to do more for. The media needs to play a more responsible role on the images shown to our impressionable younger generations. In the meantime, it is not right that all you do is to point an accusing finger at the media. There is much that you can do if you do not want our future generations to hurt their bodies through eating disorders. More preventative measures will have to be in place."

So, there is still common sense about, good.
 
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How would they police it? without actually comparing the model and the final image nobody could really tell whats been done. And where would it stop, no slimming, or no airbrushing, or no ajustments at all? does red eye count?? who would decide whats ok or not.
We often get asked at weddings to "can you make my arms thinner" or something of that kind.
 
James, im sorry im missed your post before, full respect for sharing that with us.
It shows great character to come through something like that, and still retain your sanity - let alone not be 'anti' about the whole thing.

Fair play mate ;)
 
Adey said:
James, im sorry im missed your post before, full respect for sharing that with us.
It shows great character to come through something like that, and still retain your sanity - let alone not be 'anti' about the whole thing.

Fair play mate ;)
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Ran fairly close on the sanity thing a couple of times...still c'est la vie.

In a way I entirely agree with you that it's NOT just the images it's a psychological problem...however, they can exacerbate the problem. I just don't know (from personal experience) whether a tiny 8pt message at the bottom of the page will make any difference.
 
Adey said:
Im sorry Nigel but girls dont go down the anorexia route because of advertising.
Girls go down that route because of major issues based in their family and social life.
People have always found ways to self abuse, because of depression and psychological issues, anorexia is just a vehicle. If we didnt have posters and magazines it would be something else.

People really need to start taking responabilty for there actions. We used to use religion as a way of shirking our responsibilities, now we blame murder on GTA and anorexia on the glamour industy. Why dont peole start taking seriously that fact that most people dont know how to raise kids properly, how would that sound in the houses of parliment?

Oh no we cant have that, its gotta all be someone elses fault.
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Well said! Couldn't agree more. I CAN'T stand this ban everything mentality!
 
gabe said:
Well said! Couldn't agree more. I CAN'T stand this ban everything mentality!
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On the front page of tonights local rag a 5ft 10 inch size 8 gorgeous blonde returned home after being told by a number of agencies
in London that she was TO BIG TO BE A MODEL

I think that says it all about the fashion industry
 
Just another thought. If super thin models (and their photographers) are being blamed for encouraging anorexia in impressionable girls, what negative role models are responsible for the proliferation of all these fatties? Given that this is a much more widespread phenomenon and is currently responsible for more health problems than any other lifestyle issue, shouldn't that be something to tackle as a matter of greater priority? Hey, how about compulsory liposuction?
 
This thread has an unbelievable amount of experts in the workings of a young girls mind.. I am amazed... Shame all these know it all expert are contradicting each other .. you can't all be right..

When you know what the problem is AND you know what a workable answer is.. then have a petition...
 
There are 90,000 people in the UK being treated for anorexia and bulimia.

There are 17,500,000 people who overweight with increased risk of diabetes, CV disease etc.

I've got my views on where the effort should be targeted.
 
gabe said:
Just another thought. If super thin models (and their photographers) are being blamed for encouraging anorexia in impressionable girls, what negative role models are responsible for the proliferation of all these fatties? Given that this is a much more widespread phenomenon and is currently responsible for more health problems than any other lifestyle issue, shouldn't that be something to tackle as a matter of greater priority? Hey, how about compulsory liposuction?
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That point has already been made in a slightly less neanderthal style than yours. The quality of posting on this forum has almost reached rock bottom.


Adey said:
puerile and misogynistic? There we go again, our opinions dont fit in with their idea of how life is, so we are just puerile and misogynistic.

Well i think some peoples opinions are naive and show lack of wisdom..
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It is puerile to suggest that some young people starve themselves to death because it is a lifestyle choice and its is misogynistic because most of the suffers are females. I think that is neither naive or showing lack of wisdom
Adey said:
But hey, at least were sorting through an important issue, so we are being productive i suppose.
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You have softened your line since your early post,then it wasn't an 'important issue' but rather a personal lifestyle choice because for me starving to death is not a decision young normal healthy people should be making, and you can sure as hell be certain its not simply a lifestyle choice.

Steve
 
steve_v said:
It is puerile to suggest that some young people starve themselves to death because it is a lifestyle choice and its is misogynistic because most of the suffers are females. I think that is neither naive or showing lack of wisdom

I never said that


You have softened your line since your early post,then it wasn't an 'important issue' but rather a personal lifestyle choice because for me starving to death is not a decision young normal healthy people should be making, and you can sure as hell be certain its not simply a lifestyle choice.

Again, i never said starving to death was a lifestyle choice, and i happen to think personal lifestyle is an important issue, so i didnt soften anything
Steve
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Shocking, i thought a man of your years would be better than that.
 
dan d said:
There are 90,000 people in the UK being treated for anorexia and bulimia.

There are 17,500,000 people who overweight with increased risk of diabetes, CV disease etc.

I've got my views on where the effort should be targeted.
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Yes. I agree with you completely. But in writing on this forum, I'm less concerned about the fat-people-and-thin-people debate than I am about photography - it bothers me that photographic artists are apparently saddled with the responsibility for social ills while society itself works so hard to deny the importance of individual free will and self-respect. Enough. It's always someone else's fault in this country. If you commit an act of violence, it's because of a movie or a computer game - ban it. If you shoot someone, it's the gun that did it - ban them all. If somebody doesn't look after their dog properly and it bites someone, ban the whole breed. Then if someone creates an image of a slender female and this causes some other female to go on a reckless starvation diet, ban the image, smash the cameras and prohibit airbrushing. That'll solve the problem, won't it???
 
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