I think P&O Ferries may have gone under.

I think white sliced bread is the best thing since, well, sliced bread….
 
I have seen reports that all of the British workers were laid off, but those from EU countries were not. I’m trying to find something that corroborates this.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I have seen reports that all of the British workers were laid off, but those from EU countries were not. I’m trying to find something that corroborates this.
Click to expand...

I understand this to be the case too - French P&O employees have not been 'let go'. Some of the ex-pat community in France seem to be banding together to boycott P&O, as will I be now.
 
Tringa said:
You are correct about people who voted for Brexit having no idea about this(and many other aspects of leaving the EU). Unfortunately the Remain campaign was totally pathetic is letting people know what could happen if we left the EU. The leave campaign told us how everything would be so good if we left the EU, the Remain campaign said little more than, "Its better to be in a club than outside it"

Dave
Click to expand...
It was pointed out at the time by many people including such unlikely bed fellows as Jeremy Corbyn, David Cameron and the TUC but off course that was all just project fear.
 
tarric said:
It was pointed out at the time by many people including such unlikely bed fellows as Jeremy Corbyn, David Cameron and the TUC but off course that was all just project fear.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Corbyn was working to rule and pointing it out as quietly as possible.
 
andyscott said:
It’s not the owners driving this, it’s the greedy customer who wants everything as cheap as possible
Click to expand...

yep spot on mate just the greedy consumers in the UK
 
Plain Nev said:
I think it's possible. But unfortunately we don't know that with any certainty.



You're right. I always think that Leave didn't so much win the campaign as Remain lost it.
Click to expand...

pretty true that but it didn't really make much difference.
The culture racists won the day and i am sure they sit to this day in there British sitting rooms convincing there selves
while none of there children can gain employment outside of our xenophobic borders
they must be so proud.
 
When you see Conservative ministers berating P&O bear in mind that they defeated a Bill put forward by Barry Gardner (October 22nd last year) to make this practice illegal. Infact, Backbenchers talked it out of time. It was aimed at employees being fired and then re-hired on lower pay and worse benefits. I don't know if this is the first time or not when a company has fired all the employees and hired cheaper staff from elsewhere. In this case agency workers.

Obviously, Conservatives are aware of that defeat they brought about on October 22nd and what they're exercised by is not the sackings but 'the way it was done'.

PLEASE.... read this Sky News link . Sadly, I see that some Labour Councils have used this fire/rehire method to lower costs. Surprisingly, Tower Hamlets ans Sandwell District council (Smethwick is South of West Brom)

news.sky.com

House of Commons showdown looms over bid to end 'fire and rehire' practice

A campaign in support of the bill, bankrolled by trade unions, is reaching a crescendo ahead of the bill's second reading on Friday, when ministers are expected to be accused of breaking promises to act.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

By Sienna Rodgers..journalist

"Conservatives have defeated a ‘closure motion’ – by a majority of 63, with 188 of all MPs voting in favour and 251 against – to force a vote on legislation proposed by Barry Gardiner aiming to effectively ban the practice of ‘fire and rehire’. The motion, if passed, would have forced a vote on the bill. Closure motions are used to get a decision on a motion that would lapse if an MP were still talking when the debate was due to end. This means they get to claim they didn’t vote against the bill and will mean it will be talked out. There has been notional agreement that ‘fire and rehire’ tactics are bad, but a number of Conservatives say the problem should not be addressed via legislation.

Before the debate Boris Johnson was accused by Keir Starmer of "selling out working people" because the Prime Minister whipped his MPs to vote against the private members’ bill, which was supported by the Labour leadership.

“The antics of the Conservative party today have been a disgrace,” Unite general secretary Sharon Graham said after the fire and rehire bill was filibustered by Tory MPs. “They say one thing, but do another but their lamentable filibustering in the Gardiner debate will not affect our resolve in any way. They can say what they like in parliament. On the ground, Unite will fight every employer’s attempt to ‘fire and rehire’ relentlessly.”
 
Last edited:
Mr Bump said:
pretty true that but it didn't really make much difference.
The culture racists won the day and i am sure they sit to this day in there British sitting rooms convincing there selves
while none of there children can gain employment outside of our xenophobic borders
they must be so proud.
Click to expand...
What a load of rubbish.
 
munch said:
What a load of rubbish.
Click to expand...

you can think what ever you want to mate but the truth hurts
voting leave has left loads of old people sitting smugly in there living rooms
while the entire youth generation is now cut off from any employment outside of the UK
the leavers sold out the next generation and all there future, deal with it......
 
Retune said:
To be fair, Corbyn was working to rule and pointing it out as quietly as possible.
Click to expand...
He may have been working to rule but it was widely reported at the time and widely rejected as project fear.
 
I mentioned in another thread that there's a number of people who bring Brexit up in thread after thread so this thread is no surprise to me, but I don't see a coloration here or any great blame on the Cons and I don't see any political mileage here, yet. I've no idea if what P&O have done is legal in the wrangle that shipping seems to be and from news reports I can't decide if anyone knows yet but they've certainly not made any friends, anywhere.

One thing I was proud of in my past as a supervisor and manager was that no one got the sack although we did have one redundancy which was unavoidable. I fought for our little team and always tried to do the right thing and protect jobs. It seemed the right thing to do. Hopefully someone somewhere in the higher echelons of P&O fought for the workers but lost out. Knowing that someone fought for them would be something to hang on to.
 
woof woof said:
I mentioned in another thread that there's a number of people who bring Brexit up in thread after thread so this thread is no surprise to me, but I don't see a coloration here or any great blame on the Cons and I don't see any political mileage here, yet. I've no idea if what P&O have done is legal in the wrangle that shipping seems to be and from news reports I can't decide if anyone knows yet but they've certainly not made any friends, anywhere.

One thing I was proud of in my past as a supervisor and manager was that no one got the sack although we did have one redundancy which was unavoidable. I fought for our little team and always tried to do the right thing and protect jobs. It seemed the right thing to do. Hopefully someone somewhere in the higher echelons of P&O fought for the workers but lost out. Knowing that someone fought for them would be something to hang on to.
Click to expand...

I have to admit to be honest I have been guilty about that myself, but I do believe in this case it’s relevant because one of the main reasons that the leavers wanted to get out of the EU was to be able to reduce employment protection and similar legislation to make the UK more competitive unfortunately this results in situations like what’s happening with P&O ferries
I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong on this :)
 
LCPete said:
I have to admit to be honest I have been guilty about that myself, but I do believe in this case it’s relevant because one of the main reasons that the leavers wanted to get out of the EU was to be able to reduce employment protection and similar legislation to make the UK more competitive unfortunately this results in situations like what’s happening with P&O ferries
I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong on this :)
Click to expand...
The £200million loss over the last 2 years is what has ultimately forced P&O to take action.
If they weren't able to take the action they've taken, then would it be better to pull the plug completely and everyone loses their job?
I'm not saying I agree with what they've done, I don't, I think it stinks...
 
Have I got this right?

A transport company makes losses over the last two years.
Two years of a pandemic with huge restrictions on travel
Its parent company is quite profitable, thank you very much, with some nice dividends
It decided to sack some staff and rehire others on better cheaper contracts (this would have been made illegal, but Tory back benchers ‘talked out’ the bill last year, I think)
The RMT are fighting this loss of employment
British staff were sacked but not EU staff
Apparently there is no connection with Brexit.
However, if it was, it could be noted that the RMT was in favour of Brexit.

It doesn’t seem to be a great way of getting the travelling public (“customers”) on board and all cuddly about using the servcies of P&O, which seems to me to be the way of getting the passenger numbers up.

(I could add that the British public are rapacious cheapskates that would climb over their own dead grandmother to get a cheap deal) ;)
 
Last edited:
Mr Bump said:
you can think what ever you want to mate but the truth hurts
voting leave has left loads of old people sitting smugly in there living rooms
while the entire youth generation is now cut off from any employment outside of the UK
the leavers sold out the next generation and all there future, deal with it......
Click to expand...
People can still work in the EU you know.
 
cambsno said:
People can still work in the EU you know.
Click to expand...

It‘s not so easy nowadays. Last time I looked, a hiring company had to be able to demonstrate that they couldn’t hire from within the EU first. You’ll need a visa because we no longer have the RIGHT to work in the EU, and a work permit. You cannot obtain a visa until you have a job offer.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
It‘s not so easy nowadays. Last time I looked, a hiring company had to be able to demonstrate that they couldn’t hire from within the EU first. You’ll need a visa because we no longer have the RIGHT to work in the EU, and a work permit. You cannot obtain a visa until you have a job offer.
Click to expand...
Oh yes. There is more red tape but just responding to the poster saying they can’t.
 
The Labour government introduced the Industrial Training Act, 1964, which created Industrial Tribunals and Employment Rights. They weren't perfect but they did give a level of employment protection to ordinary workers, and IMO one of the major benefits was that lawyers were actively discouraged, which meant that cases were won or lost on the facts, not on the depth of people's pockets.

The Conservative government has gradually whittled away these rights, Industrial Tribunals became Employment Tribunals, which became almost impossible to win without expensive lawyers, which of course favours the employers.

Employment protection is now virtually dead, as demonstrated by this mass sacking, due to the greed of the large employers which financially support the Conservatives.
 
People need to vote with their feet and boycott P&O as well as their parent DP world..

The British Staff were hired under Jersey contracts so british law was not involved.
However EU staff have been retained, ( for what ever reason) perhaps they have better protection.

This is no different to having British goods manufactured abroad, which is now the norm.
Like Vacuum cleaners. Dyson builds in the far east, Henry's are made in the UK.
I use Henry's
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I think it stinks...
Click to expand...
It does, and the people to blame for that are the lunatics who rushed through the Limited Liability Act in 1855. Even at the time it was seen as dangerous to provide a firewall between investors and the outcome of their actions (or, more often, inaction). :banghead:
 
Garry Edwards said:
The Conservative government has gradually whittled away these rights, Industrial Tribunals became Employment Tribunals, which became almost impossible to win without expensive lawyers, which of course favours the employers.
Click to expand...
Industrial Tribunals became employment Tribunals in 1998 as a result of the employment rights act 1998.
Conservatives weren't even in power then...so Labour did nothing to reinstate previous rights....
They're all as bad as each other....
 
Garry Edwards said:
The Labour government introduced the Industrial Training Act, 1964, which created Industrial Tribunals and Employment Rights. They weren't perfect but they did give a level of employment protection to ordinary workers, and IMO one of the major benefits was that lawyers were actively discouraged, which meant that cases were won or lost on the facts, not on the depth of people's pockets.

The Conservative government has gradually whittled away these rights, Industrial Tribunals became Employment Tribunals, which became almost impossible to win without expensive lawyers, which of course favours the employers.

Employment protection is now virtually dead, as demonstrated by this mass sacking, due to the greed of the large employers which financially support the Conservatives.
Click to expand...
It goes both ways. Sacking someone is not that easy, when people are underperforming they are put on an improvement plan and it can take a few months to be able to terminate. I had someone who knew how to play the sick card so well they literally worked about 4 months in the 3 years I managed them. What is a lot more common are compromise agreements where you are sacked to all intents and purposes but typically get your notice paid in full plus one or two month’s salary tax free.

You do need a balance. You need to protect both workers and the employer.
 
Last edited:
P&O can blame who they like - they seem to be saying it's more Covid / no government bailout than Brexit. Times are hard and often this means having to reduce staffing costs.

But friends worked for them. They were sacked by Zoom, "escorted" off the boats immediately and put on coaches to come home via the tunnel (because mysteriously no ferries were running). Nobody made P&O act like that.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Industrial Tribunals became employment Tribunals in 1998 as a result of the employment rights act 1998.
Conservatives weren't even in power then...so Labour did nothing to reinstate previous rights....
They're all as bad as each other....
Click to expand...
True, but it was the Conservatives that then whittled away the employment rights and also changed the Procedural Rules of the Employment Tribunals - death by a thousand cuts..

At one point (I can't remember the details) Applicants had to pay an upfront hearing fee of (I think) £1295, pretty much an impossibility for most of the people who had lost their job. This was eventually rescinded but is an example of the prevailing attitude.
cambsno said:
It goes both ways. Sacking someone is not that easy, when people are underperforming they are put on an improvement plan and it can take a few months to be able to terminate. I had someone who knew how to play the sick card so well they literally worked about 4 months in the 3 years I managed them. What is a lot more common are compromise agreements where you are sacked to all intents and purposes but typically get your notice paid in full plus one or two month’s salary tax free.

You do need a balance. You need to protect both workers and the employer.
Click to expand...
The get-out-of-jail-card in this situation is redundancy. The person isn't sacked but their job ceases to exist..
 
I wonder if it is true that the Tory party knew about P&O's actions the day before it happened?

www.lbc.co.uk

Tory MP heckled by P&O staff after Govt admits being aware of mass sacking plan

Dover MP Natalie Elphicke was heckled as she joined a protest calling for P&O Ferries to reverse its "disgusting and appalling" decision to sack 800 on-board staff and replace them with foreign labour.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk

www.lbc.co.uk

Government 'made aware' of P&O's mass sacking on Wednesday but 'didn’t tell anyone' | LBC

The head of the RMT Union has told LBC the Government was "made aware" of P&O's plans to sack their entire British workforce the day before the public announcement.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk

Meanwhile, thoughts from the law society gazette.

www.lawgazette.co.uk

P&O faces legal action over ‘shocking disregard’ for employment law

Trade union firm Thompsons says P&O's mass sacking of ship crews is 'unlawful'.
www.lawgazette.co.uk www.lawgazette.co.uk
 
Last edited:
It seems, as pointed out earlier, that their contracts were signed in Jersey. Therefore Brexit etc has nothing to do with the ability of the company to fire staff.

www.itv.com

Unions argue P&O staff dismissed because contracts were signed in Jersey | ITV News

Unions say employing crew in places like Jersey, Guernsey and Singapore is apparently common across the industry and by doing this there are fewer protections. | ITV News Channel
www.itv.com www.itv.com
 
IMG-20220319-WA0000.jpg
 
www.theguardian.com

Who pays the P&O ferryman? The 800 staff thrown overboard, of course | Marina Hyde

The Dubai-owned ferry company’s treatment of its former employees has managed to appal even the UK government, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
'I can tell you that a mere four months ago, the HR guy was on LinkedIn pushing a video celebrating P&O Ferries as an employer who wanted to “do things differently”. As this uplifting film explained of working at the company – “It’s not just a job; it’s a career. It’s not just a job; it’s the future of seafaring. It’s not just a job; it’s family.” Righto. Unfortunately, it’s the Roy family. What a crew this is. On his LinkedIn page one of the P&O family’s guys basks in a glowing salutation from one of his previous managing directors. He is quite the man, it says, “especially when facing union challenges. He has a passion for pushing boundaries of existing practice to explore new ideas and methodologies.” I think we’re all on the point of being able to see that, mate. The boundaries of existing practice appear to have been not so much pushed as shat on. Dimly and belatedly realising that perhaps he ought to say something, P&O Ferries’ chief executive, Peter Hebblethwaite, wrote to staff on Friday morning, touching euphemistically on what he called “changes we’re making to our crewing model”. Why do people talk like this even in their employees’ hour of anguish? It’s not “changes to a crewing model” – it’s sacking them. I see he’s also claiming it is “essential” that staff “avoid posting any comments or views on social media”. So I’m happy to point out that Peter will be paid hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to be this much of a cowardly arse.'
 
I am surprised they have left their Facebook page up, couldn't resist a comment, it would have been rude not to.

www.facebook.com

P&O Ferries

P&O Ferries. 146,102 likes · 459 talking about this · 33,393 were here. Welcome to P&O Ferries' (part of the DP World group) official Facebook page!
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
Couldn’t they just let current employees in on the situation and say ‘look, this is the situation, you can either take a pay cut(and pay them what they want to pay these new people), or you can lose your job.’ Surely that would be better than making the choice for them?
 
Pete R said:
Couldn’t they just let current employees in on the situation and say ‘look, this is the situation, you can either take a pay cut(and pay them what they want to pay these new people), or you can lose your job.’ Surely that would be better than making the choice for them?
Click to expand...
They are reportedly paying the scabs £2.60 an hour.
 
I actually think this will backfire - the government is looking to see if there are contracts they can cancel and I think a lot of people will be put off using them. I can see another Ratner style outcome unless they make a quick and massive U turn.
 
Retune said:
If you're a company in Dubai that uses your Swiss intermediary to set up a Maltese company that employs the Eastern European crew you're putting on your Cyprus-registered ships, apparently you don't have to.
Click to expand...
And of course you do all that to benefit the cost conscious consumer.
:ROFLMAO:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top