I maybe going to shoot for a business, first time?

D

DinoS

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so the reason it is a maybe is i am waiting for a reply so in the meantime, how do you make signs (thats what the bussiness does) look good.

i want to make them look slightly more wow instead of boring, so any ideas of how to do it.

thanks

M
 
OK, I'm in a bit of funny mood today so here's my funny mood answer.

There are several things that occur to me off the top of my head that would do something a bit different or dramatic with signage.

The thing is, if you don't know what to do with the job, should you be doing it? As someone who shoots for a living, should I be telling you how to take the work from someone that shoots images to feed the kids and pay the mortgage?

Personally, I've never feared competition of any sort but I do wonder about the attitude of people that go and get work then start thinking about how to make a succsess of it.

It'll be interesting to see what other people have to say, I'll probably pop back into this thread later to share my ideas of what you could do. ;)

In the meantime, what kind of signs exactly?
 
:thinking:

You know I tend to agree.
Reminds me of the constant battle elsewhere...

" Hello, I want you pros to tell me how to do this job so that I don't have to pay you for doing it properly. And then maybe get others to pay me for helping them" /slight paraphrase.

400duser. Don't take Daz's (or my) comments too personally but when people spend a lot of time/effort/money/sacrifices/etc.. to become good at what they do it's sometimes a bit difficult to just give this away to anyone who cares to ask, particularly if they haven't even done the basic groundwork. (which TBH your threads on here would indicate is the case)
 
hmm, you havnt really explained it very well. And with the kit you currently poses i think you are mabe out of your league shooting for a business, depending on what there expectations are, however, i havnt seen your work so i cant say your not good enough, however.. as dazzajl said above, you have to come up with the shot yourself..else your not really a photographer, again as above, will be interesting to see what advice people post. If you get really stuck i will help no doubt, because at the end of the day, if i was in your shoes and i was stuck, id want it.. but id try and google images that you might like, print a collarge and then scetch some ideas from those.

kl beans.
 
I can only echo the above responses.

Taking the camera out of AUTO mode would probably be a good start ;)
 
i am doing it for free just to get some experience and the person is just allowing me to do it and if get anything he likes he can keep it.

so don't worry about me trying to make someone pay. I am doing it for experience.

so what equipment do you need then?

thanks, i was things as some of them are illuminated signs getting some at night as it would look good.

any other thoughts?
 
I don't think it's necessarily a camera issue so much as a creative one?

Having no idea of what to point the camera at is the problem; so as Greg says, hit Google for some research & ideas first - then ASK the client for a brief of what they want and how they want to use it - that'll all help

Then if still completely stuck, it may well be best to explain that although you'd love to have a stab at it you don't feel able to do as good a job as you'd like for them at this point in your career. They'll respect you more for that than cocking it up or simply disappointing them, as, if you do either, they'll never ask you again no matter how good you are in a year's time
 
And I thought the purpose of these forums was to share and learn from others but from the responses of the posters it seems that is not the case. Some people...what can you do?:shrug:
 
Isn't being told you're out of your depth and that it's possibly best to walk away - good advice?

As we get more info, it's apparent this is not a 'normal' commission from a business with high expectations and money being spent; moreso, they are helping him out too which is both great & useful. But it didn't read like that initially did it, hence some inappropriate advice perhaps

So now, search the net for ideas and if you find any you'd like to copy (but don't know how) post those images here for comment/help
 
ok i will or though i cannot find a good lookig intresting way of portraying a sign. is this suggesting something?

have any of you?
 
DiddyDave said:
Isn't being told you're out of your depth and that it's possibly best to walk away - good advice?
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Probably the best advice you could possibly give.
Especially as some other advice/encouragement is offered with it.

In line with my previous comment. I'm often asked how to do certain jobs which the person clearly has little chance of doing properly (due to lack of knowledge/tools/ability or all three) and will end up with an expensive piece of scrap. Not likely to happen here but the principles are the same.

Better to get good at what you can do before taking on too much IMO.
Walk before trying to run.


Now if this company are only offering the chance to have a go with no expectations then you have little to lose so just go and see what you can come up with.
Fidn ot uwhat sort of thing they want and go out locally and get some practice in.
Then post some of your creations here for people to comment on. That way you will learn by doing it rather than hoping someone will just tell you how to do it.
 
ThisPhotoGuy said:
And I thought the purpose of these forums was to share and learn from others but from the responses of the posters it seems that is not the case. Some people...what can you do?:shrug:
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There's no shortage of advice on this forum and freely given. 400D is being given the best possible advice he could be given at this stage imho - "Don't do it" He simply doesn't have the experience or the technical know how to tackle the job and would be well advised to leave it alone whether he's getting paid or not.;)

An unfortunate aspect of the digital boom is that many people now seem ready to make the leap to professional photography with indecent haste, ill prepared, and not really understanding the level of skill required of them. There's nothing wrong with eventually thinking about making money from photography but for goodness sake, have a good understanding of at least the basics before you even think about it.

I'm a little perturbed to say the least by what seem to be more and more posts slanted towards the commercial side of photography, as though it's some sort of one-upmanship if you're getting paid. This is first and foremost a board for enthusiast photographers, whether they be rank newbies, experienced amateurs or pros.

This thread does highlight the reason why I've always resisted a separate pro forum here.
 
ThisPhotoGuy said:
And I thought the purpose of these forums was to share and learn from others but from the responses of the posters it seems that is not the case. Some people...what can you do?:shrug:
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Hmm, there are a number of ways to try explain the point I was trying to make. I might try a few of them. :D

Firstly, I didn't say I wouldnt help. Just that I had reservations about this particular sort of question.

How about if the request was more like this. "I like the finacial industry and would quite like to become a mortgage broker. I have met someone that needs a mortgage but I don't really know much about the market. Can someone tell me the best mortgage to sell them please?"

Still OK?

Or, this is talk photography forums and not talk business. We are all here to discuss, share and learn about making images. This is (or at least appeared to be) a question about growing 400d's business. For money or just for reputation is neither here nor there. There are no doubt photographers in that area who will not get a chance at this job if 400d does it. If he knows how to do the job and can offer a better/more cost effective service then great. If he's just taking on a job without the knowhow and then looking for instructions from those that do, I'm not sure it's right. I'm not sure it isn't either, just asking the question.

Don't take any of this too personally 400, you've just become the tag attatched to this debate, that's all. :)

If you get to the point where you can come back and say, "I'm doing these sign shots and I want them to look like x, y,and z but I'm not sure of the best way to acheive that result. I have no doubt you'll get a huge and positive response.
 
dazzajl said:
Hmm, there are a number of ways to try explain the point I was trying to make. I might try a few of them. :D

Firstly, I didn't say I wouldnt help. Just that I had reservations about this particular sort of question.
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All very nicely put indeed and I have to agree. :)

I will also add that if you do a bad job for someone because the job is too big, then your chances of having a good reputation are lowered. That can't make good business sense can it? :thinking: :D

Grief! I was asked if I could do a job that would have required shooting at famous local landmarks, with models, props, costumes, external lighting, make-up artist and all the necessary paperwork required to get the job done... I am only one person! Naturally I declined and gave them the address of someone else I knew who could manage a big shoot like that! :eek: :lol:
 
This thread does highlight the reason why I've always resisted a separate pro forum here.
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Absolutely, please no pro section......... ever!

I know that shooting for living has it's own talking points and issues but to separate comment or catagorise peoples ability to talk about photography by whether they charge for images or not, has always seemed beyond daft to me.
 
Just taking the internet out of the equation for a moment - OK... there's no internet been invented yet. Would you dream of knocking on the door of the local pro and saying "Excuse me, but I'm doing a wedding round the corner on Saturday and I haven't a clue how to do it. Would you mind giving me a few tips? I'd be really obliged as well if you could just give me a quick crash course on how to use my flashgun". I suspect not! ;)

We have quite a few pros here and to their credit, they all do share information with people, but let's be realistic, when money and competition comes into the equation, you shouldn't be too surprised if it starts to dry up.
 
Irritable_Rabbit said:
I will also add that if you do a bad job .....
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you may assume it was because the advice you had was bad !

Had that happen too often as well.
Offering advice can be so dependent on the person's ability to use that advice properly.

:thumbs: on the 'no pro section'
Segregation can make things too insular.

Although... :thinking: if I charge one person a fiver for one pic do I become a pro?
 
From what 400duser says he's doing it for nothing for the experience, that is not a bad idea, there's no substitute for experience. The problem I see from this and other threads is that he wants to be told everything instead of using his own brain to work it out for himself, there's nothing wrong with seeking advice but you have to have be willing to put the work in yourself to begin with.
 
LOL. The objection I would have to a pro section, is that a large proportion of the membership would aspire to posting in it and being thought of as a 'pro' thus creating a two tier community.
 
Regarding the pro/am split I would be against it as well. Although I'm a "pro" in that I get paid to take pictures and approach it with, I hope, a professional attitude I see TP as a community that covers all aspects of photography and I don't see a pro section would ever fit well with that. I know that I talk (and moan) about some business things from time to time but that's from a personal point of view rather than a professional one.

Back to the thread topic. I think it would have been a very different thread if the original question had been put differently:

"I've got a chance to try my hand at shooting some signs at a local sign maker, anyone got any tips or ideas for a setup?"
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400D you have a great opportunity to experiment here as there's no pressure to make sure it's a success. It can all go horribly wrong and you'll gain some valuable experience and learn some lessons if it does. My advice is to have a think about how you'll setup the signs - do you want them to look like a pack shot against a plain background or maybe you want to place them in a suitable environment, something rustic or with a feeling of a bygone age? Once you figure out what kind of look you want then you can work out what equipment/props/etc you'll need and can work on sourcing that. Then maybe you can do some test shots before the real thing and of course post back here for comments/advice about your ideas.
 
Question, if no-one tells anyone anything, how does anyone learn and then become in a position to give advice?
 
One uses one's noggin and goes out and tries it?
 
Question, if no-one tells anyone anything, how does anyone learn and then become in a position to give advice?
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Buy a book? Internet? Self-taught by trial & error experience?

Oh soz, was the question rhetorical? :D
 
Steep should take his own advice more often and get out with the darned camera! :)
 
:lol: that's damn good advice . Can I have some of it?
 
Don't bother Steep. I went out with my camera for the first time in a very long time yesterday and hated every minute of it.
 
think pxl8 gave best advice so far.

400d i think you've lost already, i'm in similar position to youself i would look at it differently.

I've limited equipment how can i myself produce WOW factor. Deciding how to do it would be my challange, i wouldn't ask on forum the good or bad i'd take pics and ask how could i improve if i wasn't happy.

After event if guy still wasn't happy i'd ask if it was presentation, location etc that wasn't quite right, what he wasn't happy about. Then i'd ask to try again

Any idiot can click a camera but it takes imagination to take a photo
 
400duser said:
i am doing it for free just to get some experience and the person is just allowing me to do it and if get anything he likes he can keep it.
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A few years ago (10) I was in a band that used to play every year at the motorcycle show at the NEC in Birmingham. We charged a fair rate and it made up for quiet periods of work. Then someone came along and said they'd do it for free. We never played at the show again.

Moral of the story is, if it's worth them keeping, it's worth paying for.


As for neon signs, at night, long exposures, tripod and cable release. The rest is down to your imagination.
 
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