I am being pulled towards wildlife esp birds

Tulipone

Tulipone

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Chris
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Grateful for the wisdom here before spending. What pitfalls am I going to find?

Thinking of buying a Sigma 150-600mm f5-6.3 Sports DH DN l mount lens as seeing the fantastic range of wildlife captures here. This would be a significant purchase for me and I’d rather have an idea where my regrets are likely to stem from before pushing the go button.

Now I understand that I have very little knowledge on how to actually take wildlife pictures other than little brown birds are quick and little and bigger wildlife prefers places and times when people are not there so one or two gaps that I’m going to need some help with. I’m guessing that you experienced birders will know when and where to be to narrow the failure rate and knowledge more important than kit - but starting somewhere is starting.

I have an alarm clock and time so thinking that a longer reach lens is possibly the next item needed. I have a fairly decent tripod and head that should comfortably hold the lens and camera - looking on YouTube there are claims that this lens can be hand held but very happy to use a tripod.

I understand that even at 600mm little brown birds will continue to be very small unless really close but have no real concept of how close would be close enough. I understand that I could further extend with a teleconvertor - but that is also going to have a down side.

Grateful for your thoughts.
 
Before spending a penny I would take a visit to some local rspb sites , go into the bird hides and see what others are using , if possible chat to them and ask why they use particular brand X etc … most birders are only to willing to talk about there gear and might even let you handle it .
Rest assured that 600 mm reach won’t end there next it will be TC’s for more reach , you will also have to learn field skills to allow a close approach to birds / animals .
You say you have a tripod head to hold the camera , but the best heads for birding are gimbals and good ones come at a premium .
local ish places I can recommend are lackford lakes nr bury st edmunds , and any rspb sites
 
On a Full Frame camera 600mm doesn’t get you ‘that’ close, for example if taking a blue tit from 10ft away you are still going to need to crop the image to fill the frame so technique and light are paramount to allow you to do this whilst preserving as much detail as possible. If you’re shooting on a crop body this will give you the effective reach of 900mm (a bit longer if using Canon) and will fill the frame more.

The Sigma sports is a great lens, albeit on the slightly heavy side and not one I’d choose to hand hold for hours on end so a good tripod with gimbal head could be your friend.
 
I fell into the same trap, and have a Nikon D500 and Sigma 150-600C lens for the same purpose, though I haven't done much with it yet. I think the advice above is all very good, and Jeff (@the black fox ) really knows his onions in this genre. Another tip may be to look at @dragonfly 's offering here
 
Get to know the wildlife you're after and fieldcraft will help no end, shooting early or late can make a differance to lens choice too.

Good luck and have fun (y)
 
The 'Contemporary' version might be less of a financial risk (assuming this is available in your mount).

I max out at 500 mm on my Nikon D500. With my own 200-500/5.6 or a hired 500/4VR. Sometimes use the D850, which is great if the bird comes much closer and if I need to crop when the bird is further away..

Patience and fieldcraft is key....acceptance that you're likely to come away having photographed nothing at all or the light is wrong such that the little brown job becomes the silhouettted little black unidentifiable blob.

When I am in the hides the 'long' lenses I tend to see mostly are the Canon 100-400, Nikon 200-500 or the 500/5.6.....

Coming back to the 500/4VR I borrow, you might ask why loan one when I have the 200-500. It's that extra stop, sharp at f4 but the background becomes less defined.

One thing I would advise, if you could borrow the Sigma before you decide to buy it would be great,,,
 
the black fox said:
Before spending a penny I would take a visit to some local rspb sites , go into the bird hides and see what others are using , if possible chat to them and ask why they use particular brand X etc … most birders are only to willing to talk about there gear and might even let you handle it .
Rest assured that 600 mm reach won’t end there next it will be TC’s for more reach , you will also have to learn field skills to allow a close approach to birds / animals .
You say you have a tripod head to hold the camera , but the best heads for birding are gimbals and good ones come at a premium .
local ish places I can recommend are lackford lakes nr bury st edmunds , and any rspb sites
Click to expand...
We are lucky enough to be central to several RSPB locations and regularly visit them. In the past I have been frustrated with a poor quality 70-300 on a crop and was looked down on by someone I tried to engage with at Paxton Pits some years ago. I can see his point but he unfortunately made it poorly and without encouragement. You are right though, I need to research this - if I recall pre pandemic Rutland Water used to hold events.
Mike.P said:
Which camera body?, I ask because wildlife is one of the few times megapixels can make a real difference.

From the lens you are describing I am presuming either Sony FE or L mount ?
Click to expand...
L mount. And because I went affordable (cheap) on the body, I only have 24 megapixels to crop from. When I bought the body I did so knowing that there are fast focussing issues and chose to ignore that also.
snerkler said:
On a Full Frame camera 600mm doesn’t get you ‘that’ close, for example if taking a blue tit from 10ft away you are still going to need to crop the image to fill the frame so technique and light are paramount to allow you to do this whilst preserving as much detail as possible. If you’re shooting on a crop body this will give you the effective reach of 900mm (a bit longer if using Canon) and will fill the frame more.
Click to expand...
This is absolute gold and on reflection, exactly what I was looking for. I have never used a 600mm so had no real idea what the effect was - but thought it was likely to be this.

There is a cash back offer on at the moment with a refund of £170. I was kind of figuring that would go quite a way to a semi decent gimbal.
 
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I initially gave it a go with a 400/5.6 and Canon 7D, disastrous and put me off it entirely.
Just lately living in close proximity to a RSPB reserve decided to try again.
Bought a Panasonic 200/2.8 and 1.4x TC to use with my G9
This gives a FF equivalent FOV of about 560mm at f/4 which should hopefully be just about ok.

Already have a decent tripod and ball head, also bought a Hide Clamp that will aid stability.
For various reasons not tried it out yet, but hoping to in the coming weeks.
Pretty sure it will be a tough learning experience and not expecting much to start with.

Plenty of little egrets and herons to practice on, usually a little grebe or two as well.
Various water birds too, all look rather similar to me, but think there are terns and oystercatchers.
Also a Seal that I have photographed a couple of times and sometimes water voles.
One particular place has a Kingfisher, but think I would rather wander to start with.
 
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lindsay said:
I fell into the same trap, and have a Nikon D500 and Sigma 150-600C lens for the same purpose, though I haven't done much with it yet. I think the advice above is all very good, and Jeff (@the black fox ) really knows his onions in this genre. Another tip may be to look at @dragonfly 's offering here
Click to expand...
You have mentioned a couple of people whose images I very much enjoy looking at. @dragonfly seems to recommend a 600mm from his hide days and whilst I would sign up for one or two of those (at least I am sure) real life involves doing some of this in real situations. We have a family of magpies at the end of our and a few hedgehogs - the latter probably easiest of the bunch. We also live by the fens and and going past 16foot drain this morning saw several herons. With my current longest lens of 85mm prime they could have stuck two fingers up as they flew off and I wouldn’t have seen it.
Gav-canon said:
Get to know the wildlife you're after and fieldcraft will help no end, shooting early or late can make a differance to lens choice too.

Good luck and have fun (y)
Click to expand...
Again, love your images. You should all get cash back from longer reach lens Sales.
welshwizard645 said:
The 'Contemporary' version might be less of a financial risk (assuming this is available in your mount).

I max out at 500 mm on my Nikon D500. With my own 200-500/5.6 or a hired 500/4VR. Sometimes use the D850, which is great if the bird comes much closer and if I need to crop when the bird is further away..

Patience and fieldcraft is key....acceptance that you're likely to come away having photographed nothing at all or the light is wrong such that the little brown job becomes the silhouettted little black unidentifiable blob.

When I am in the hides the 'long' lenses I tend to see mostly are the Canon 100-400, Nikon 200-500 or the 500/5.6.....

Coming back to the 500/4VR I borrow, you might ask why loan one when I have the 200-500. It's that extra stop, sharp at f4 but the background becomes less defined.

One thing I would advise, if you could borrow the Sigma before you decide to buy it would be great,,,
Click to expand...
I would like to try a loaner first but lens for hire and WEX neither have one available. The f5-6.3 did worry me a bit - especially as someone above remarked - that a tc was a likely option in the near future.
 
as most will know when weapon of choice these days is olympus now on a E-M1X body and a 100-400 lens plus 1.4 tc the i.b.i.s means no need for tripods ,gimbals or monopods all my shots are hand held .. the 2x crop factor at full reach gives in FF terms either 800mm or with t.c 1150mm more than enough for any u.k birding .. in fact today I had to pull back as I was to close ..
in terms of value for money the whole olympus range gives top results for a quarter the price of other brands .... step back and wait for the shiiiiite to hit the fan o_O
 
Tulipone said:
We are lucky enough to be central to several RSPB locations and regularly visit them. In the past I have been frustrated with a poor quality 70-300 on a crop and was looked down on by someone I tried to engage with at Paxton Pits some years ago. I can see his point but he unfortunately made it poorly and without encouragement. You are right though, I need to estat this - if I recall pre pandemic Rutland Water used to hold events.

L mount. And because I went affordable (cheap) on the body, I only have 20 megapixels to crop from. When I bought the body I did so knowing that there are fast focussing issues and chose to ignore that also.

This is absolute gold and on reflection, exactly what I was looking for. I have never used a 600mm so had no real idea what the effect was - but thought it was likely to be this.

There is a cash back offer on at the moment with a refund of £170. I was kind of figuring that would go quite a way to a semi decent gimbal.
Click to expand...
To give a visual representation this is an unedited shot of a Kingfisher taken no more than 12-15ft away using a 400mm lens with 1.4x TC so total focal length of 560mm.


Screenshot 2023-04-03 at 18.31.45 by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr
 
Tulipone said:
@snerkler - thank you. To be honest I was starting to feel a bit deflated but your woodpecker has put things into context.
Click to expand...
No worries, although it's a very odd woodpecker ;) :p
 
the black fox said:
as most will know when weapon of choice these days is olympus now on a E-M1X body and a 100-400 lens plus 1.4 tc the i.b.i.s means no need for tripods ,gimbals or monopods all my shots are hand held .. the 2x crop factor at full reach gives in FF terms either 800mm or with t.c 1150mm more than enough for any u.k birding .. in fact today I had to pull back as I was to close ..
in terms of value for money the whole olympus range gives top results for a quarter the price of other brands .... step back and wait for the shiiiiite to hit the fan o_O
Click to expand...
That's one of the great advantages of Olympus, such a great system.
 
one from my rig today ,little egret and little fish .. only a small crop from original shot
the hunger games by jeff cohen, on Flickr
 
I too like photographing birds and do find it difficult at times with my 70-300mm lens, however, fieldcraft and patience are big factors. Also you need to be ready at anytime (when on a session)to drop everything and start clicking. One of my best shots of a robin was caught when I was half way through lunch and it landed within a few feet. I would also suggest the farne Isles at the end of May beginning of June. If you do go though take a washable coat and decent hat, the turns do like to dive bomb visitors :):):)
 
We have been to Farne to see the puffins some years ago. Those arctic terms are vicious! Glad they are no bigger than they are.
 
Tulipone said:
You have mentioned a couple of people whose images I very much enjoy looking at. @dragonfly seems to recommend a 600mm from his hide days and whilst I would sign up for one or two of those (at least I am sure) real life involves doing some of this in real situations. We have a family of magpies at the end of our and a few hedgehogs - the latter probably easiest of the bunch. We also live by the fens and and going past 16foot drain this morning saw several herons. With my current longest lens of 85mm prime they could have stuck two fingers up as they flew off and I wouldn’t have seen it.

Again, love your images. You should all get cash back from longer reach lens Sales.

I would like to try a loaner first but lens for hire and WEX neither have one available. The f5-6.3 did worry me a bit - especially as someone above remarked - that a tc was a likely option in the near future.
Click to expand...
For our buzzard hide, 300mm-400mm is fine. I think the 150-600mm Sigma/Tamron is a great wildlife lens at a reasonable price.
 
Birds were my main thing for a number of years.
I've used an apsc body (16mp)with a sigma 150-600mm contemporary and got great results.
I then thought it was getting a bit heavy and went for m43 (16mp) with a 100-400mm lens and got great results.
I then wanted to scratch the FF itch and went for a FF body (20mp) with a 200-600mm lens and got great results.
I've never used teleconvertors.
I've sold all my FF kit and bought a Harley but looking to get some new camera gear and looking to go lighter again.
I'll likely get a Sony RX10iv bridge camera that I can take everywhere, either that or possibly give olympus M43 a try.
My point is that I've tried various formats and longer lenses and have always been able to get decent results...
 
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My birding kit is a Nikon D780, Sigma 150-600 Contemporary, study monopod and gimbal. Some of my favourite locations are the RSPB sites on the Somerset Levels where they have some really good hides. Is 600mm long enough? Most of the time NO! so a Sigma 1.4TC is also in the bag to give me a reach of 840mm ... but that results in a widest aperture of f/9 and a struggle to get a firm focus lock using the viewfinder. Not a viable option on cloudy, dark days. If the light is good and the subject is still and I can use liveview though the focus locks on solid - the D780 had the Z6ii liveview focussing system :)

Whatever kit you choose there will be compromises to be made unless you have a bottomless wallet/credit card. You just have to learn to make the most of what you have and be realistic in your expectations. I hope you enjoy whatever you buy (y)
 
Bristolian said:
Whatever kit you choose there will be compromises to be made unless you have a bottomless wallet/credit card. You just have to learn to make the most of what you have and be realistic in your expectations. I hope you enjoy whatever you buy (y)
Click to expand...


Quoted for truth!

When I dabble in wildlife/birds, I use a 100-400 on a crop (1.5x) body, occasionally with a 1.4x teleconverter as well. Then crop!
 
The Olympus M43 kit is the sweet spot on both pricing, weight and technical capability at the moment.

The only time you’d think twice about using it is if you’re obsessed with bokeh in those wildlife photos which then forces you down the FF route with big and heavy glass required which then can start to limit the shots you might want to take.

Personally I’d recommend you figure out what sort of bird photography you want to do. By this I mean do you always be wanting to walk around different or even local places and just snap away at what you find or will you mostly be in bird hides or vantage points? If the former, gear weight and ability to hand hold is really important as you’ll simply miss shots if you have something like a monopod or tripod setup. They’re just slower to deploy compared to simply raising your arms lol.

If money is no option and you’re spending most of your time in hides or you want the bokeh, go FF with 600mm f4 lens + monopod + Jobu design remote shooting platform + three legged thing stubz (to raise the height of the head) + manfrotto or benro video/wildlife heads to make bird hides extremely easy to accommodate for best results.

You’re looking at a potentially extremely expensive hobby so best to work out what you want to do first. If you’re in north lincs we could meet so you can try the FF big Lens route
 
Thank you to all, as always the advice and guidance is much appreciated. As is the way, not always what I wanted to hear but often what I needed.

I am yet to find a rental for l mount so will probably head up to WEX in Norwich in the near future to have a look - not my preferred option as things that go on a camera to test often leave the shop with me.
 
Tulipone said:
Thank you to all, as always the advice and guidance is much appreciated. As is the way, not always what I wanted to hear but often what I needed.

I am yet to find a rental for l mount so will probably head up to WEX in Norwich in the near future to have a look - not my preferred option as things that go on a camera to test often leave the shop with me.
Click to expand...
just remember when testing stuff ,lenses or cameras they will be at factory default settings. so you won't get optimal results as with your settings applied
 
Adrian64 said:
I too like photographing birds and do find it difficult at times with my 70-300mm lens, however, fieldcraft and patience are big factors. Also you need to be ready at anytime (when on a session)to drop everything and start clicking. One of my best shots of a robin was caught when I was half way through lunch and it landed within a few feet. I would also suggest the farne Isles at the end of May beginning of June. If you do go though take a washable coat and decent hat, the turns do like to dive bomb visitors :):):)
Click to expand...
The terns are a bit of a hazard. Unfortunately as a means to limit vectoring the bird flu virus, Farne Islands are currently off limits for visitors for 2023. Can still bob around the islands in a boat, but landing is not allowed right now.

Farne Islands to be closed for landings again for all of 2023 because of Avian Flu! - The Tea Rooms - Chat - The RSPB Community

Share your passion for birds, wildlife & all things nature with the RSPB Community. Show off your images, experiences and read the RSPB’s blogs! Join the community here
community.rspb.org.uk community.rspb.org.uk

I use a Canon 7Dii with a 100-400mm Mk2, sometimes with a 1.4x TC. As mentioned above, cropping is still required much of the time especially for small birds.
 
Phil V said:
The wild life has been pulling me in ever since I discovered birds in my teens.

#nothelpful
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Story of my life unfortunately ..
 
I have the 150-600 sports lens have to say its a wonderful bit of kit but can be a little unweily if you aren't used large lenses so would definitely recommend giving one a try before investing.
 
I'd suggest Olympus kit as well, for the magnification factor due to sensor size if nothing else. if you do go down the m4/3 route you'll probably need to add noise reduction software such as Topaz or DXO PureRAW to your post-processing workflow. They say you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear......weeelllll......... it's not quite as true as it used to be.


People here are suggesting focal lengths (using TC's) of 1000 mm or more; can I take a second to point out that is 20 times standard vision, twice as much magnification as a typical pair of binoculars, and it would have been completely unobtainable ten or so years ago!

And what I was originally going to say before I got side-tracked by kit talk - the more you learn about birds the more successful (and enjoyable) your photography will be.
 
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I often see people talking about lenses on crop bodies being better for wildlife as they fill the frame more. Assuming that the two bodies have similar sensor pixel spacing then surely a cropped picture on a full frame will be the same as an uncropped picture on a crop semsor?
And won't the full frame have a shallower DoF?
 
Suvv said:
I often see people talking about lenses on crop bodies being better for wildlife as they fill the frame more. Assuming that the two bodies have similar sensor pixel spacing then surely a cropped picture on a full frame will be the same as an uncropped picture on a crop semsor?
And won't the full frame have a shallower DoF?
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I find that FF crops better, and from my tests shooting the Nikon D7200 vs the D750 I found that cropping the D750 to match the D7200 gave very similar results, however you're now down at 10mp vs 24mp and so further cropping or printing very large may give more advantage to the D7200.

In terms of DOF, assuming you're stood in the same spot then the crop body will give marginally less DOF. According to the calculators if shooting at 20ft, 600mm f5.6 on FF you get a DOF of 0.1ft vs 0.07ft on a crop body.
 
Tulipone said:
I am sure that the Olympus kit is fantastic - but not what I have therefore L mount lenses are in my future!
Click to expand...
us olympus converts all said the same at some point .. keep ALL your options open .especially before getting something big and unwieldy .. i.e a olympus OM1 +100-400 +1.4 tc gives a maximum FF equiv . of 1150mm and weighs circa 2kg all up with a burst speed of between 18-to- 60 fps and close up of 1.3 mtrs handy for butterflies and bugs
no tripod ,no gimbal needed .... no bag needed either all weather sealed good enough to take in the shower with you .
 
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