Humans are rubbish sometimes

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Hugh if you don't want a heated discussion don't spout rubbish you've read in the Daily Mail. I asked you at the start to provide statistics and analysis to back up your rather bigoted views.
You supplied nothing but further unsubstantiated bigotry,hearsay and your opinion which you have a very high opinion of!
If you knew the slightest bit about what you profess to know so much about you would realise how much conservation work Anglers put in to the countryside and how much natural habitat depends on conservation. So when you compare Angling to caged Lion hunting there's only one person you are making a fool of, yourself! When was the last time you spent your weekend clearing a water course of Himalayan Balsam to stop bank erosion?

A few things Mark. My opinions aren't from the daily mail. I've nothing but contempt for the paper.

My comparison of canned hunting to angling was explained and is my opinion. I stand by it. You don't like it or agree that's fine. But it's not foolish.

I've never spent a day clearing balsam, but I have spent a fair dew cold and wet restoring canals so I guess we are quits on that one.

I realise how much work goes into conservation. But anglers are far from the only people to do that.

Your statement that I know nothing cause I live in London is just rude and wrong.

But let's leave it there
 
The more you post the more verbiage you spout,

Hugh if you don't want a heated discussion don't spout rubbish you've read in the Daily Mail. I asked you at the start to provide statistics and analysis to back up your rather bigoted views.

Mark, this stops now, it's getting far too personal
 
has anyone mentioned the badgers yet ~? :exit:
 
A few things Mark. My opinions aren't from the daily mail. I've nothing but contempt for the paper.

My comparison of canned hunting to angling was explained and is my opinion. I stand by it. You don't like it or agree that's fine. But it's not foolish.

I've never spent a day clearing balsam, but I have spent a fair dew cold and wet restoring canals so I guess we are quits on that one.

I realise how much work goes into conservation. But anglers are far from the only people to do that.

Your statement that I know nothing cause I live in London is just rude and wrong.

But let's leave it there


We'll agree to differ !
 
If you knew the slightest bit about what you profess to know so much about you would realise how much conservation work Anglers put in to the countryside and how much natural habitat depends on conservation. So when you compare Angling to caged Lion hunting there's only one person you are making a fool of, yourself! When was the last time you spent your weekend clearing a water course of Himalayan Balsam to stop bank erosion?

In Hugh's defence , the word that's missing from your post above is "some" - some anglers carry out conservation work, some don't - just as some obstruct footpaths, fish where they aren't supposed to , and leave acres of line and, hooks weights lying about caught in trees (when I worked in Milton Keynes I once collected 32 weights and hooks, and over 300m of line from 3 lakes over the course of a weekend, and that wasn't by any means exceptional).

Also claiming that you do conservation work as a justification for the hobby, is in itself inviting a comparison with canned hunting whose proponents often claim they are providing "sustainability" and or protecting the wild populations by providing an alternative ( as if just not shooting lions was not also an alternative)

And finally to claim that without anglers all the UKs rivers and streams would be wildlife deserts choked with weed etc , is I'm afraid complete cobblers - there are many streams and rivers that aren't fished which have thriving wildlife.

Bottom line for me , is Angling as bad as canned hunting , no - because on the whole the fish aren't killed, and they also aren't particular endangered, but are there legitimate parallels ? yes there are because its a pursuit that has no real need to be carried out , which involves inflicting unnecessary suffering on wild or pseudo wild creatures, and which also has the potential to impact negatively on the surrounding 'non target' species

(oh and btw I'm a countryside management professional with 21 plus years experience , so don't lets waste time going down the "you don't know what you are talking about " route)
 
Hunting is not a sport. In a sport, both sides should know they're in the game.


Paul Rodriguez

 
As an ex angling bailiff I have to agree with most of what BSM Pete say above, the only bit where there is a problem in my view is the canned hunting which I do agree is shameful for those that take part to say the least, does raise large sums of money which allows the environment to be left in at least a semi natural state which wouldn't happen otherwise. In an ideal world where families had a decent standard of living, health care, etc the lion would be left to live its life naturally on the savanna but this just isn't the case. The land/wildlife has to be used for the human population in some way that gives it a value. I just wish I knew a better way but with the population booming in Africa this is just one of the problems there.
 
In Hugh's defence , the word that's missing from your post above is "some" - some anglers carry out conservation work, some don't - just as some obstruct footpaths, fish where they aren't supposed to , and leave acres of line and, hooks weights lying about caught in trees (when I worked in Milton Keynes I once collected 32 weights and hooks, and over 300m of line from 3 lakes over the course of a weekend, and that wasn't by any means exceptional).

Also claiming that you do conservation work as a justification for the hobby, is in itself inviting a comparison with canned hunting whose proponents often claim they are providing "sustainability" and or protecting the wild populations by providing an alternative ( as if just not shooting lions was not also an alternative)

And finally to claim that without anglers all the UKs rivers and streams would be wildlife deserts choked with weed etc , is I'm afraid complete cobblers - there are many streams and rivers that aren't fished which have thriving wildlife.

Bottom line for me , is Angling as bad as canned hunting , no - because on the whole the fish aren't killed, and they also aren't particular endangered, but are there legitimate parallels ? yes there are because its a pursuit that has no real need to be carried out , which involves inflicting unnecessary suffering on wild or pseudo wild creatures, and which also has the potential to impact negatively on the surrounding 'non target' species

(oh and btw I'm a countryside management professional with 21 plus years experience , so don't lets waste time going down the "you don't know what you are talking about " route)

You can use the word 'some' in most sports , there are those Anglers ( and Shooters)who respect the environment and those who regard it as another multiplex where litter can be dropped without consequence.The Angling Club I am a member of is baliffed rigorously and litter of any sort is not tolerated, even if its not yours.Penalty is immediate expulsion from the Club .
Ive Stalked Deer, Shot wildfowl and Fished and the real Anglers and Shots care passionately about the environment, conservation is at the forefront of most of our minds. Conservation work is part of any field sport and if you can't be bothered to assist then you shouldn't be participating.
I would respectfully suggest that as a 'Countryside Management Professional'if you are not aware of the work of the likes of the Angling Trust, ACA the BFSS and the BASC then maybe you should make it your business to do so!
I would also suggest that if you hold Shooting and Angling in such low esteem as a 'countryside management professional' then maybe your in the wrong job as your employers cant possibly be getting a balanced view out of you particularly in view of the revenue available from these sports.
If you care to read back to my first post you'll see I expressed revulsion at the trophy shot, but comparing Angling to that is quite frankly laughable.
 
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You can use the word 'some' in most sports , there are those Anglers ( and Shooters)who respect the environment and those who regard it as another multiplex where litter can be dropped without consequence.The Angling Club I am a member of is baliffed rigorously and litter of any sort is not tolerated, even if its not yours.Penalty is immediate expulsion from the Club .
Ive Stalked Deer, Shot wildfowl and Fished and the real Anglers and Shots care passionately about the environment, conservation is at the forefront of most of our minds. Conservation work is part of any field sport and if you can't be bothered to assist then you shouldn't be participating.
I would respectfully suggest that as a 'Countryside Management Professional'if you are not aware of the work of the likes of the Angling Trust, ACA the BFSS and the BASC then maybe you should make it your business to do so!
I would also suggest that if you hold Shooting and Angling in such low esteem as a 'countryside management professional' then maybe your in the wrong job as your employers cant possibly be getting a balanced view out of you particularly in view of the revenue available from these sports.
If you care to read back to my first post you'll see I expressed revulsion at the trophy shot, but comparing Angling to that is quite frankly laughable.

Hold on... you expressed revulsion at the trophy shot, but have said that you stalk deer (i assume that means shooting them) and shot wildfowl... isnt that the same thing in principle. We can all argue about the detail but you obviously enjoy this and I have no problem with that but you have an issue with the woman who shot a lion???
 
Hold on... you expressed revulsion at the trophy shot, but have said that you stalk deer (i assume that means shooting them) and shot wildfowl... isnt that the same thing in principle. We can all argue about the detail but you obviously enjoy this and I have no problem with that but you have an issue with the woman who shot a lion???

Indeed I did - but when has anyone ever ate a lion for food? This is quite simply a hunt for Trophies something I abhor! If there was a need to control Lions numbers you wouldn't be taking out prime Males like that, but the older less healthy stock who could start causing a problem with livestock and maybe even humans! The photo is pure glorification, look at me aren't I great - The woman presents an American firearms program and its all about self promotion. This is being compared to angling!!!!!!
 
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Look at all of the photos from that company, every lion is posed in the same way with a mound of soil under the jawline, I can't believe you can kill an elephant for less than $40k. Absolute savage BarStewards
 
Indeed I did - but when has anyone ever ate a lion for food? This is quite simply a hunt for Trophies something I abhor! If there was a need to control Lions numbers you wouldn't be taking out prime Males like that, but the older less healthy stock who could start causing a problem with livestock and maybe even humans! The photo is pure glorification, look at me aren't I great - The woman presents an American firearms program and its all about self promotion. This is being compared to angling!!!!!!

Its all got a bit out of hand hasnt it. I think a friendly padlock will be along soon.

 
Indeed I did - but when has anyone ever ate a lion for food? This is quite simply a hunt for Trophies something I abhor! If there was a need to control Lions numbers you wouldn't be taking out prime Males like that, but the older less healthy stock who could start causing a problem with livestock and maybe even humans! The photo is pure glorification, look at me aren't I great - The woman presents an American firearms program and its all about self promotion. This is being compared to angling!!!!!!

But that is like saying that its ok to steal food but not material goods - either way its theft! If you wanted to eat deer or wildfowl you would buy it at a supermarket/butchers. However you get enjoyment and the challenge of shooting it, as does this woman.
 
But that is like saying that its ok to steal food but not material goods - either way its theft! If you wanted to eat deer or wildfowl you would buy it at a supermarket/butchers. However you get enjoyment and the challenge of shooting it, as does this woman.

So Deer or Wildfowl comes from a Supermarket? That my friend is why you haven't got the slightest idea about what you are talking!
They are wild creatures , their populations needs conserving and nurturing. Id rather shoot a natural creature that's had a proper life rather than buy a farmed animal that's been grown and killed purely for food. Unfortunately if you think Game comes from a supermarket then there is no point in continuing this - most of the hung pheasants and duck you see in your local butchers will have been shot, they are food but totally natural not farmed. I'm sure you like free range produce which is exactly what it is. The fact is I've been out in its natural environment and shot it myself , so whats the difference?
 
So Deer or Wildfowl comes from a Supermarket? That my friend is why you haven't got the slightest idea about what you are talking!
They are wild creatures , their populations needs conserving and nurturing. Id rather shoot a natural creature that's had a proper life rather than buy a farmed animal that's been grown and killed purely for food. Unfortunately if you think Game comes from a supermarket then there is no point in continuing this - most of the hung pheasants and duck you see in your local butchers will have been shot, they are food but totally natural not farmed. I'm sure you like free range produce which is exactly what it is. The fact is I've been out in its natural environment and shot it myself , so whats the difference?

In Waitrose, yes, they sell mallard, partridge and pheasant at certain times of the year. You can buy game at farmers markets too... but the point is you get enjoyment in doing it.

Do you kill your own beef, pork and chicken or do you buy that from a supermarket seeing as you would rather shoot a natural creature thats had a proper life?
 
The point is I eat what I shoot ! I'm not shooting trophys. It is actually illegal to slaughter your own cattle, pigs and chickens!
Like I said when was the last time you ate Lion?
 
They are wild creatures , their populations needs conserving and nurturing. Id rather shoot a natural creature that's had a proper life rather than buy a farmed animal that's been grown and killed purely for food. Unfortunately if you think Game comes from a supermarket then there is no point in continuing this - most of the hung pheasants and duck you see in your local butchers will have been shot, they are food but totally natural not farmed. quote]

and by not farmed you mean ,,not bought as poults and farmed ,,sorry fed in a release pen ,and then released with feeders nearby .and then a few months later have an army of bearers bash through the woods to scare them to flight just so a load of ( insert own word here ) can blast them out the sky at close range ???( and yes most shooters do hit them at near point blank ,so dont give me all the high bird testing shots bull ) been there, seen it.
 

And your point is? So just remind me about the life a Tesco's chicken has, the ones kept in pens unable to stand up force fed and never see the outside. Both are reared for a purpose and out of the two the pheasants have a much better life.
 
And your point is? So just remind me about the life a Tesco's chicken has, the ones kept in pens unable to stand up force fed and never see the outside. Both are reared for a purpose and out of the two the pheasants have a much better life.

The life of a Tesco's chicken isn't quite the point though is it? A pheasant is still reared - its not wild nor is it native to the UK. I don't actually have any issues with people shooting them, it'd just be nice to see someone admit they shoot because they enjoy it. Rather then being all high and mighty about doing it to eat the quarry (cause I'm sure the hunting fraternity won't starve regardless of if they eat them or not)
 
The life of a Tesco's chicken isn't quite the point though is it? A pheasant is still reared - its not wild nor is it native to the UK. I don't actually have any issues with people shooting them, it'd just be nice to see someone admit they shoot because they enjoy it. Rather then being all high and mighty about doing it to eat the quarry (cause I'm sure the hunting fraternity won't starve regardless of if they eat them or not)

I enjoy Fieldsports, I wouldn't do it if I didn't. My point about eating what I shoot is that you don't eat Lions do you, only if you want a rug or a trophy which is just wrong? But then you think hunting Lions and Angling is one and the same!
 
I enjoy Fieldsports, I wouldn't do it if I didn't. My point about eating what I shoot is that you don't eat Lions do you, only if you want a rug or a trophy which is just wrong?

As said, I've no issue with that,but hunting semi-domestic animals to eat isn't really needed, is it. Exactly the same as trophy hunting isn't.

then you think hunting Lions and Angling is one and the same!

I do. I think hunting wild or semi-wild animals all goes into the same pot. Especially when you harm (either intentionally or not, non target species) We had agreed to differ on that point also as I remember
 
This is just all going round in circles now, and nothing will be achieved in persevering with this thread anymore.
 
I enjoy Fieldsports, I wouldn't do it if I didn't. My point about eating what I shoot is that you don't eat Lions do you, only if you want a rug or a trophy which is just wrong? But then you think hunting Lions and Angling is one and the same!

So, in basic terms... you enjoy shooting animals, so does this woman. You do it for different reasons but both like it. Sorry, but there is very little difference in this! Yes, there is an argument about lions being the majestic animals they are, in lowish numbers that it is worse but it is in effect the same thing.
 
lockd.gif
 
So, in basic terms... you enjoy shooting animals, so does this woman. You do it for different reasons but both like it. Sorry, but there is very little difference in this! Yes, there is an argument about lions being the majestic animals they are, in lowish numbers that it is worse but it is in effect the same thing.

So exactly what is your point ? I enjoy Field Sports but I think that shooting a Lion for a trophy is gross how is that the same?
 
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