how to ...

bastic

bastic

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Lukas
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ok...

I still did not managed to get a dark/black background for shooting portraits/people ....

so how I can get dark background on a photo without any background setup ?

I do have umbrella, softbox and sb900 ...



I think I will have to setup softbox, sb900 on low power, F10 or something like this, low iso and maybe that will help me to isolate 'subject' from the background and make it black .... ?
would that work ?

any advise welcome.
L.
 
Try
100 ISO
f/8 (or and keep increasing until black)
1/160

Make sure the subject is far away enough from the background to avoid light spill
Positioning the lights at an angle will help too
 
far away enough .... space is an issue as well ;)

need to convince some one to pose for a while and test few settings ;)
 
Think about it this way..
The black background is the area lit by ambient light and not being lit by flash.

Get your ambient exposure first to see how dark you can get it... then add flash.

Tips:
- Move subject away from background
- Move flash closer to the subject
- Control light spill
- All of the above
 
You can get this instantly by going outside and standing your model on their own in the dark. Go manual and select a shutter speed of say 1/125s, f8 and flash on manual half power. Take a shot and look at the light graph on your camera together with the picture. You should have the subject lit but no background. Is your subject too bright? If so reduce the power of the flash or reduce the aperture size (higher f num). If your subject is too dim do the opposite.

Once you have the subject right experiment with distance between the subject and a wall etc. Using this technique I realised what I needed to do using the biggest studio (a large car park) and was able to recreate it inside.
 
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get the light closer to the subject so the light falls off past it faster, then move the whole subject/light combo as far away from the bg as pos

you can also feather the light (aim it away from the bg)

use a longer lens from further back to show less bg

working outside is good too

btw the d700 has a commander right, let it work out the exposure ;)
 
What if you needed a shallow DoF but still required a dark background? I'm guessing that increasing the shutter speed would provide the same effect?
 
gman said:
What if you needed a shallow DoF but still required a dark background? I'm guessing that increasing the shutter speed would provide the same effect?
Click to expand...

Correct exposure is a product of:

shutter speed
ISO
available light (ambient + flash)
aperture

IF you are using flash then the shutter speed is pretty much fixed so in order to affect a shallow DOF you need to open up the aperture (lower f) in doing this you increase the light coming in causing over exposure. With this being the case when we want a shallower DOF in the studio we REDUCE the amount of the light AND increase the aperture.
 
So by opening up the aperture but decreasing the studio light accordingly we can darken the ambient light without effecting the exposure on the subject?
 
gman said:
So by opening up the aperture but decreasing the studio light accordingly we can darken the ambient light without effecting the exposure on the subject?
Click to expand...

By opening the aperture and decreasing the studio light you keep the actual amount of light hitting the film/ccd the same.

HOWEVER - you remember I said that correct exposure is a product of:

shutter speed
ISO
available light (ambient + flash)
aperture

Well the 3rd part of that is available light (ambient + flash). If the flash is reduced the the ambient light has MORE of an effect. This means that other things MAY become visible.

A good example of this is if you use a VERY powerful flash and a nutter fast shutter speed and time the shutter to happen precisely during the time that the light is on at its brightest you can negate even bright sunlight.
 
So the best solution is to just use the correct backdrop! lol
 
gman said:
So the best solution is to just use the correct backdrop! lol
Click to expand...

Yes but you can create black backgrounds with one studio light and no studio...

These 6 shots were taken using a single flash and a FITP softbox in the car park next to the house whilst having a play.


melblack100.jpg


melblack101.jpg


melblack102.jpg


melblack103.jpg


melblack104.jpg


melblack105.jpg


They would all have been improved with a second light etc but just demonstrating what you can do with a single light.

No background and in fact no studio :)
 
david1701 said:
aye, just begging for a rim though :D
Click to expand...

Oh yes, hence my comment about it would have been improved with a second light :) I was just trying out the FITP softbox rather than actually doing a shoot :)
 
You can cancel out the effects of opening the aperture by adding a nd filter of equivalent amount :)
 
Ok, I'm having issues here. I'm a big believer in that although studying is good you'll tend to learn faster when it's hands-on. So out comes the camera and the speedlite.

I setup a wine glass on the desk (le'subject) and there's nothing in the background for about a 1 metre. I take a shot without flash at 1/200 (my sync speed) and f/8. It's total black, no light, not a sausage.

I whack on the speedlite and suddenly it's like the Lord said giveth light and there was light!!!! Ok, so I'm thinking that it doesn't matter what my settings my camera is at the flash is going to compensate automatically? Am I going down the right tracks here?

So I pop the flash into manual mode and even going to f/22 the background is still there and the best I can get is a dull background but also a horrible underexposed wine glass.

Three things are going through my head.

1. Maybe there's not enough control with the speedlite and it's not diffused
2. The background is too close and the flash is spilling onto it
3. If I aim carefully enough I may just be able to get the flashgun out the window and in that bin across the street

Am I doing something wrong or is my logic somewhere in the same ballpark?


EDIT: I've noticed in your shots you don't show the ground so I'm guessing this must be a background distance thing and my flash is spilling?
 
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gman said:
Ok, I'm having issues here. I'm a big believer in that although studying is good you'll tend to learn faster when it's hands-on. So out comes the camera and the speedlite.

I setup a wine glass on the desk (le'subject) and there's nothing in the background for about a 1 metre. I take a shot without flash at 1/200 (my sync speed) and f/8. It's total black, no light, not a sausage.

I whack on the speedlite and suddenly it's like the Lord said giveth light and there was light!!!! Ok, so I'm thinking that it doesn't matter what my settings my camera is at the flash is going to compensate automatically? Am I going down the right tracks here?

So I pop the flash into manual mode and even going to f/22 the background is still there and the best I can get is a dull background but also a horrible underexposed wine glass.

Three things are going through my head.

1. Maybe there's not enough control with the speedlite and it's not diffused
2. The background is too close and the flash is spilling onto it
3. If I aim carefully enough I may just be able to get the flashgun out the window and in that bin across the street

Am I doing something wrong or is my logic somewhere in the same ballpark?


EDIT: I've noticed in your shots you don't show the ground so I'm guessing this must be a background distance thing and my flash is spilling?
Click to expand...

Hmmm sounds like a few problems there.....

Have you done any off camera flash stuff at all yet?

If not try looking at this thread and come back to the black background thing afterwards.... LINK

The control required to sort the background as well as the subject is the next stage. Try experimenting with the subject first.
 
If your shot without flash is total darkness, it's the flash adding all the light.
Have you got the flash off camera or is it in the hotshoe?
You'll want to get it off the camera and not point the flash at your background for best results.
 
gman said:
EDIT: I've noticed in your shots you don't show the ground so I'm guessing this must be a background distance thing and my flash is spilling?
Click to expand...

The reason that the images don't show her feet is that I was only using a small softbox which was not really up to lighting a standing subject and I was only having a play with a new bit of kit.
 
I bought black suede curtains from Dunelm Mill and they work well for black backgrounds. I had a girl standing less than 3 feet in front of it with one softbox lighting her and the background was black. Very cheap and easy way to do it when space is limited.
 
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Cowasaki, great shots, great example of black background work!
On the third image I see what I can only describe as the horizon of the back wall and floor? Not sure, on my iPhone. Just pointing it out :)
 
gman, is your flash set to 1/128th of the power? Presuming your using a SB-900 then thats the lowest power it will go.
Also, if you dont have some sort of barn door equivelant then tape/tack some paper/card to your speedlight to stop some of the light spilling onto background and adjust position as needed.
 
I'm using it on the hotshoe, it's the Speedlite 430ex ii. Cheers the advice and the linky, will read later as I'm at work just now.

I'll get the kit and start reading and practising. The light on the flashgun isn't diffused or anything either.
 
gman get a set of wireless triggers from FITP, you'll be amazed at how quickly off camera develops :)
 
I see this thread is helping not only me :)
thanks guys for all replies :ok:

Hopefully on sunday will give it a go as my GF has a day off ;)
 
AdamPearcey said:
Cowasaki, great shots, great example of black background work!
On the third image I see what I can only describe as the horizon of the back wall and floor? Not sure, on my iPhone. Just pointing it out :)
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are seeing there but the shot was taken in the car park at the side of my house when it was dark :) For models I love using the car park like this as the blacks are just soooo black and I do have the luuuuverly Lencarta Safari lights and now ring light to play with :) I did have to clone out a registration plate from some of this bunch but there is no background.
 
gman said:
I'm using it on the hotshoe,
Click to expand...

There's one problem, the light doesn't stop as soon as it hits the glass, it just keeps going until it's reflected off whatever's behind it. The light intensity will decay based on the inverse square law, but firing it straight on isn't making your life any easier.


gman said:
The light on the flashgun isn't diffused or anything either.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant.
 
cowasaki said:
Not sure what you are seeing there but the shot was taken in the car park at the side of my house when it was dark :) For models I love using the car park like this as the blacks are just soooo black and I do have the luuuuverly Lencarta Safari lights and now ring light to play with :) I did have to clone out a registration plate from some of this bunch but there is no background.
Click to expand...

He means this.

melblack102.jpg


BTW, that's just a negative curve over the top blended to soft light (great way to see what needs cleaning in a background).
 
JasonRS said:
He means this.

melblack102.jpg


BTW, that's just a negative curve over the top blended to soft light (great way to see what needs cleaning in a background).
Click to expand...

That is the edge of the car park. These were just test shots so hadn't looked that closely :thumbs:
 
I tried firing it at angles as well but I'm guessing I need to have it off-shoe so that the main spill of the light is hitting stuff that is out of the frame?
 
gman said:
I tried firing it at angles as well but I'm guessing I need to have it off-shoe so that the main spill of the light is hitting stuff that is out of the frame?
Click to expand...

:thumbs:

Have you got an off camera flash lead?
 
Nah, I'll maybe go and get one today. I don't want to go out and buy any radio triggers etc as they come with the kit.

Would Jessops or Calumet have one of these leads?
 
gman said:
Nah, I'll maybe go and get one today. I don't want to go out and buy any radio triggers etc as they come with the kit.

Would Jessops or Calumet have one of these leads?
Click to expand...

They would be expensive if they do. It's a shame you don't have Nikon kit as I have a spare one here that I have never actually used! I would just buy one off ebay or give FITP a shout. If he has one in stock he could possibly get it to you by tomorrow cheaper than calumet or jessops.
 
gman said:
Nah, I'll maybe go and get one today. I don't want to go out and buy any radio triggers etc as they come with the kit.
Click to expand...

What kit are you getting?
 
A camera flash lead will be expensive? Or are you talking about triggers?
 
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