How to use a 10 Stop Neutral Density Filter

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nictry

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Having just received my 3.0 ND from Formatt this morning I understand the easiest way is to meter without the filter then switch to MF then adjust down by 10 stops and take the picture.

But! I am not confident in knowing if I get a 1/500 shutter at f8 what I need to dial in to get the same exposure (basically I always use the in camera meter to +/- the exposure normally), with the ND on there is nothing showing on either Shutter or Manual mode, not sure why, so is there an easier way than how I was doing it this morning which was essentially to take it to 30 secs and just guess at a matching aperture? I would really like to be able to know whether I can take a longer exposure and what aperture I need to match up?

Hope this makes sense and sorry if it is a bit of a daft question but I couldn't find any definitive answer on the forums other than the 'dial in 10 stops' response :help:
 
It helps if you understand what a correct exposure is, and something like Fred Parker's exposure computer pages explain rather well what you are trying to achieve. He also provides the number lines which allow you to count in stops :)

From his pages 10 stops down from 1/500 is 2s so to get a 30s exposure you will need to make the aperture smaller as well - make the f number bigger; by my reckoning f32 + 3.0ND is what you are looking at for a 30s exposure in light conditions that would make 1/500 the correct shutter speed at f/8

B.
 
Just found another chart with different settings, removed post until I can verify

Trev
 
Looks like my reckoning is out then... :D
 
Busy looking at various charts at the moment.

The one above was from a site link on here as I just got my ND10 last week and wanted a guidline. Now I'm doing another search on google and there seems to be some confusion.

By the looks of it the one above may be wrong

Will post my findings

Trev
 
Hi Nick

I find it makes metering go a bit nuts, I need to shoot with about +2 EV or I'm under-exposed (on my D700)


Here is an example, 20 second exposure. Note in the EXIF the +2 EV.


3450201011_fc856c2bba_o.jpg

​

I've found if I shoot around +2EV I get a well exposed pic.
 
Apologies Ben you are 100% correct :)

Compared a few charts
 
Thanks Trev - I was doubting my counting ability :D

Regarding the +2EV suggestion from puddleduck, adding the +2EV takes it back to f/16 for the OPs lighting conditions which is "better" on most lenses than the extreme f/32. It seems weird to be dialling in +EV when you have, effectively, dialled in -10EV with the ND - but without adjustable NDs I guess it is the only option left open to photographers.

B.
 
K full chart this time

unfiltered meter/ filter in place

1/8000: 1/8s
1/4000: 1/4s
1/2000: 1/2s
1/1000: 1s
1/500: 2s
1/250: 4s
1/125: 8
1/60: 15s
1/30: 30s
1/15:1min
1/8: 2mins
¼: 4mins
½: 8mins
1s: 16mins
2s: 32mins
4s: 1hr 4mins
8s: 2hrs 8mins
15s: 4hrs 16mins
30s: 8hrs 32mins

Trev
 
TrevDR said:
K full chart this time

unfiltered meter/ filter in place

1/8000: 1/8s
1/4000: 1/4s
1/2000: 1/2s
1/1000: 1s
1/500: 2s
1/250: 4s
1/125: 8
1/60: 15s
1/30: 30s
1/15:1min
1/8: 2mins
¼: 4mins
½: 8mins
1s: 16mins
2s: 32mins
4s: 1hr 4mins
8s: 2hrs 8mins
15s: 4hrs 16mins
30s: 8hrs 32mins

Trev
Click to expand...

Fab stuff, I am sure I will learn over time but this makes things sooooo much easier :D


Not so sure about 8hr + exposures though :nuts::eek:
 
puddleduck said:
Hi Nick

I find it makes metering go a bit nuts, I need to shoot with about +2 EV or I'm under-exposed (on my D700)


Here is an example, 20 second exposure. Note in the EXIF the +2 EV.


3450201011_fc856c2bba_o.jpg

​

I've found if I shoot around +2EV I get a well exposed pic.
Click to expand...

Will bear that in mind, must admit even with some guesswork this morning (and I was only shooting boring out the window stuff) I was pretty close and exposure seemed pretty well right on D300 but only some 'real world' shots will tell me for sure

P.S. Nice shot!
 
Just as an add-on, do digital chips suffer from any form of reciprocity failure, apart from colour noise in shadows during long exposures, as film does?
 
I'm not sure why the D700 underexposes with this filter, but it tends to give me a 5 second exposure when I need 20.

I'd expect it to to "just work" though - I find that shooting IR also needs some +EV. I guess its because the viewfinder is totally dark in both cases, so the camera tries to make stuff middle grey in the absence of any visual clues.
 
specialman said:
Just as an add-on, do digital chips suffer from any form of reciprocity failure, apart from colour noise in shadows during long exposures, as film does?
Click to expand...

No. This is very much a film-only thing.
 
puddleduck said:
I'm not sure why the D700 underexposes with this filter, but it tends to give me a 5 second exposure when I need 20.

I'd expect it to to "just work" though - I find that shooting IR also needs some +EV. I guess its because the viewfinder is totally dark in both cases, so the camera tries to make stuff middle grey in the absence of any visual clues.
Click to expand...

I wondered if the totally dark issue might have some bearing on it too?
 
I have just spent a morning playing around with my 10 stop hitech filter on my D300. Metering isnt any good as its way underexposed. In fact I was using something along the lines of TrevDR's chart but saying if it metered at 1/30 then that was 30s with the filter. It only takes a test shot or two to verify and then usually the rest are mostly the same for the remainder of the shoot.

Pics to follow (maybe).
 
To continue on my post above, just looking through them on bridge and even though I was facing away from the sun, I have loads of flare spots. Not too bad for colour casts though.:|
 
I got a 77mm one last week from Warehouse Express - they seem to have a complete range of sizes.

Hope that helps,

Sandra
 
strax said:
To continue on my post above, just looking through them on bridge and even though I was facing away from the sun, I have loads of flare spots. Not too bad for colour casts though.:|
Click to expand...

How long were your exposures? I have found out that I can control things with my HiTech Slot-In so long as I don't go over 30s exposures.
 
I use a B&W screw-in and it was about £70 IIRC from WHE. That was a while ago mind.

£150 is mental.
 
Just had to get mine on Fleabay from a German company as couldnt find a B&W 72mm version, Euro75.94 (12.95Euro of that was postage)

simonkit said:
I've been looking for a 72mm version of the 10stop filter but am struggling to find one, can anyone suggest a retailer ?

thanks

simon
Click to expand...
 
TP linky for extra what filter when goodness :)
 
I paid about £24 for my 85mm Hitech slot in 10 stop which seems mighty reasonable based on the WHE price!!!!!
 
68lbs said:
How long were your exposures? I have found out that I can control things with my HiTech Slot-In so long as I don't go over 30s exposures.
Click to expand...


Most were 30s and above. It mught also depend on the lens as well as some might be better handling flare. Most of my shots have been with my Tokina 11-16. I will have to try the Nikon 18-70 to see if it makes a difference.
 
I use this table as i find its the easiest for me to read and understand.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomasradzevicius/2267881902/in/faves-philwhittaker/lightbox/
Anyhoo if you have an iphone or like me HTC there is an app that works it out for you. Mines called Exposure Calculator and is free. You enter aperture, & Iso youve chosen then enter your ND Stop figure and it will tell you what exposure to set.
Heres the app.
http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/tools/exposure-calculator_hnct.html
Also the f number you choose depends on what youre shooting and what effect you want (blurred background for example).
I have limited experience so this is taken from what ive learned in a short time. I normally go around f12-16 when i do landscape shots to get detail throughout the shot from front to back.
Phil
 
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GIZTO29 said:
I use this table as i find its the easiest for me to read and understand.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomasradzevicius/2267881902/in/faves-philwhittaker/lightbox/
Anyhoo if you have an iphone or like me HTC there is an app that works it out for you. Mines called Exposure Calculator and is free. You enter aperture, & Iso youve chosen then enter your ND Stop figure and it will tell you what exposure to set.
Heres the app.
http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/tools/exposure-calculator_hnct.html
Also the f number you choose depends on what youre shooting and what effect you want (blurred background for example).
I have limited experience so this is taken from what ive learned in a short time. I normally go around f12-16 when i do landscape shots to get detail throughout the shot from front to back.
Phil
Click to expand...
Hey Gizto,
Each to thier own as they say, while the exposure chart you use covers all nds mine only covers 10 stops, in 3rd increments, so is ideal for 10 stop filters only which is the only reason i posted here today as this post is 10 stop related.

in relation to your f12-16 when shooting landscape thats spot on if your using upto nd0.9 (3 stop) till you get to around 40th sec after that you can easily bring down the f number and still achive a good front to back focus due to the shutter speed ie: it will be open so long everything will be in focus regardless of f number, particulary when using 10 stop, this will also bring your 10 stop exposure times down, critical when shooting sunsets in fast fading light.

when night shooting i use f4- f5.6 for upto 6 -7 mins everything is sharp even if the farthest distance.
hope that helps
 
puddleduck said:
I use a B&W screw-in and it was about £70 IIRC from WHE. That was a while ago mind.

£150 is mental.
Click to expand...

My 77mm ND110 was about £70 as well a year or so ago... hmm.. anyone for a bargain £125 ND110, save yourselves £25 :lol:
 
Easy way to set the shutter speed, if it's less than the camera's (usual) 30 seconds max - just count the number of clicks on the dial.

If you have your adjustment dial set in 1/3rd stop increments, then ten stops is 30 clicks down from whatever your starting point is. If it's in half-stop increments, then obviously 20 clicks.

But do some tests to find out exactly what your particular ND value is - they're all different and they sometimes vary slightly batch to batch too.

Another tip which I discovered by accident. Which is, on Canons at least, when set on B the frame counter counts up the seconds during the exposure.
 
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BenMottram said:
..From his pages 10 stops down from 1/500 is 2s so to get a 30s exposure you will need to make the aperture smaller as well - make the f number bigger; by my reckoning f32 + 3.0ND is what you are looking at for a 30s exposure in light conditions that would make 1/500 the correct shutter speed at f/8.
Click to expand...

WTF! I thought photography was meant to be enjoyable, but now it seems you need a maths degree in a foreign language?! :thumbsdown:

I'll use a CPF and that's it. :thumbs:
 
waynesphotos said:
Hey Gizto,
Each to thier own as they say, while the exposure chart you use covers all nds mine only covers 10 stops, in 3rd increments, so is ideal for 10 stop filters only which is the only reason i posted here today as this post is 10 stop related.

in relation to your f12-16 when shooting landscape thats spot on if your using upto nd0.9 (3 stop) till you get to around 40th sec after that you can easily bring down the f number and still achive a good front to back focus due to the shutter speed ie: it will be open so long everything will be in focus regardless of f number, particulary when using 10 stop, this will also bring your 10 stop exposure times down, critical when shooting sunsets in fast fading light.

when night shooting i use f4- f5.6 for upto 6 -7 mins everything is sharp even if the farthest distance.
hope that helps
Click to expand...

I'll bare that in mind Wayne. Thanks very much for the advice. Regarding the 10 Stop i have a Heliopan from Teamwork Photo. Its awesome and many say as good as the B&W. You need to add vat to the price and delivery:) The price was always just below the B&W befor ethe prices went nuts lol
http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79_244&products_id=10221
Hope this helps
Phil
 
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