How to sell on photographic work to press?

RjLPhotography

RjLPhotography

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Robb
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I have a couple of images I'm wanting to forward to the editor of a local newspaper. However understandable I'm not wanting my copyrighted work to fall into the hands of the company for free, so I was wondering how do I approach the newspaper into letting them know the pictures are available and enquiring as to wether they may be interested in the story?

They may already have similar pictures at hand from freelancers doing the same job, but there's no harm trying incase I've come up with something that might interest them..
 
Despite their terrible reputation, newspapers do have to stick to the law so they can't just steal copyright and use your images without paying for them unless you consent to it so don't be scared to e-mail them a reduced resolution copy of the photos with your contact details in the e-mail and embedded within the metadata of the JPG. If they are interested then they will get back to you asking for the higher resolution version and details of how much they'd be prepared to pay for the images. Unless you have some really stunning newsworthy images don't expect to earn a fortune from them though, newpapers are on an ever decreasing budget.
 
You send them the full size picture without watermark. JPG compressed so its not too big.. 2500pixels at longest side and no bigger than say 1.5mb

You put all your details in the exif iptc ... a caption stating whats in the picture, where and when.. you then include all your details contact and payemt.. i put my bank transfer details in.. I also put a note saying no free usage.. if all that is in the pictures exif then you send it off with a brief explanation in the email

I would reccomend you tell them you accept there standard rates so long as not free

then sit back and wait.. If you do the above then no paper would use them pretending they didnt know... your covered to send them an invoice if they do... if your picture is used send a confirmation email then wait anyhting up to three months to get paid :)
 
-Rob- said:
Despite their terrible reputation, newspapers do have to stick to the law so they can't just steal copyright and use your images without paying for them unless you consent to it so don't be scared to e-mail them a reduced resolution copy of the photos with your contact details in the e-mail and embedded within the metadata of the JPG. If they are interested then they will get back to you asking for the higher resolution version and details of how much they'd be prepared to pay for the images. Unless you have some really stunning newsworthy images don't expect to earn a fortune from them though, newpapers are on an ever decreasing budget.
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good reply bar the reduced image.. you must send them the full size ready to print image.. dont be paranoid..., if they want to use it they will shove it straight in.. they wont want to be getting back to you asking for the full size...

even my local paper gets thousands of pictures a week going through there system.. they wont reply to many if any and certainly wont want to waste time asking for the printable copy
 
Tony, just out of interest, as a man who is regularly published in the papers and presumably getting paid for the majority of them, do you keep a record of what gets published and when you get paid for it? If like you say there could be a delay of up to 3 months you could easily lose track. Or, do you rely on the honesty and organisation of the newspapers and just assume you'll get paid?
 
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Thanks guys. I've braved it just this minute and emailed them mentioning I am willing to negotiate a open fee and linked them to my flickr sets with the images in question (where it's already pre-copyrighted by the site anyway.) So if they do pull any nasty surprises the PPC & flickr will have my back covered contractually.

Just a waiting game now..
 
RjLPhotography said:
Thanks guys. I've braved it just this minute and emailed them mentioning I am willing to negotiate a open fee and linked them to my flickr sets with the images in question (where it's already pre-copyrighted by the site anyway.) So if they do pull any nasty surprises the PPC & flickr will have my back covered contractually.

Just a waiting game now..
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So what was the point of asking for advice then totally ignoring it? you ignored what to do with the pictures and what to do about the fee...
 
-Rob- said:
Tony, just out of interest, as a man who is regularly published in the papers and presumably getting paid for the majority of them, do you keep a record of what gets published and when you get paid for it? If like you say there could be a delay of up to 3 months you could easily lose track. Or, do you rely on the honesty and organisation of the newspapers and just assume you'll get paid?
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First.. I get paid for all of them :)

As a full time photographer i keep books and records.. I definitely dont rely on honesty :) 3 months is for national papers (some quick some slow) regional papers are around 6 weeks average.

There are exception..
when you get a picture used in the nationals.. its hard keeping track if they did get used or not... half an hr in asda checking the papers on monday.. but not rest of week.. then you have to rely on papers honesty.. also there are southern and northern editions..

another example ..I got a picture used in one publication who paid promptly... then i got another lesser payment a month later as they used the pic again.. I would never have know as it wasnt a publication I ever check.


So you keep track but sometimes you miss usage.. but as you say in your first post.. they are not all out to steal from you :)
 
I wasn't ignoring the advice. I have 19 firework images and several train shots. The editors are hardly going to spend their time opening email attachments then doing the work themselves to decide what images to use, like you said they have thousands of images going through the prints weekly and have better things to be doing.

Sending the flickr link enables them to decide themselves what image they want and allows me then to send a suitable HD link straight to the editor/publishers address for print. I wasn't ignoring the advice I was merely ascertaining the easiest option to take seeing i've never done this before. No reply has been received yet so they might not even be interested in anything in what I've got to offer.
 
RjLPhotography said:
I wasn't ignoring the advice.
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You completly ignored the advice given to you


RjLPhotography said:
I have 19 firework images and several train shots. The editors are hardly going to spend their time opening email attachments then doing the work themselves to decide what images to use, like you said they have thousands of images going through the prints weekly and have better things to be doing.
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for gods sake.. thats exactly how it works... you put the information in the exif as advised and they search keywords.. if they want firework shots they search fireworks.. yours and everyone elses comes up and they pick the best.. they will have keywords for whatever story you have... they dont follow links to flikr....

RjLPhotography said:
I wasn't ignoring the advice I was merely ascertaining the easiest option to take seeing i've never done this before. .
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I know you ahve never done it.. thats why i took the time to tell you how it works.. you decided theres a better way .

Its doesnt cost me anything to share how the system works when asked.. and i will share it again when the next person asks...it just amazes me that you then ignore how the system works and decide you ahve a better system?


good luck.. hope you get published and hope you get a fair price....:)
 
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Any other professionals wish to contribute without wanting to bite my head off for learning the ropes?
 
RjLPhotography said:
Any other professionals wish to contribute without wanting to bite my head off for learning the ropes?
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Without wishing to pretend to be "professional", if I may please let me pass on my thoughts....

Firstly, the chances of a local paper paying for any pics are slim indeed and then only if you've caught something unique (I'm assuming you weren't the only one privy to this firework display) and it is of local interest. I've had a look at your Flickrstream and, whilst your fireworks pics are nice, they appear to all just be images of fireworks against a black sky, there are no buildings or landmarks in them to provide any "local" interest and that is what the paper would want, if they wanted such images at all.

For that reason, and sorry if this comes across as harsh,I can't see any reason why a newspaper editor would want to pay for them, especially as they've probably been sent hundreds of similar images by other local photographers, for free......
 
KIPAX said:
You send them the full size picture without watermark. JPG compressed so its not too big.. 2500pixels at longest side and no bigger than say 1.5mb

You put all your details in the exif iptc ... a caption stating whats in the picture, where and when.. you then include all your details contact and payemt.. i put my bank transfer details in.. I also put a note saying no free usage.. if all that is in the pictures exif then you send it off with a brief explanation in the email

I would reccomend you tell them you accept there standard rates so long as not free

then sit back and wait.. If you do the above then no paper would use them pretending they didnt know... your covered to send them an invoice if they do... if your picture is used send a confirmation email then wait anyhting up to three months to get paid :)
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A possibly silly question, but do you set up all this exif data in camera, or is there a way of setting it up to automatically be put in in Lightroom?
 
Scrimja said:
A possibly silly question, but do you set up all this exif data in camera, or is there a way of setting it up to automatically be put in in Lightroom?
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Not in the camera itself no... never used lighroom.. I use photo mechanic for adding my information to the exif.. but any software should show you a list of what you can or cant edit..... i am sure lightroom offers a good exif editor as I know others use it for that

no pic editor is interested in your settings BTW :)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I can't see any reason why a newspaper editor would want to pay for them, especially as they've probably been sent hundreds of similar images by other local photographers, for free......
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Ive just had a look at them and agree with the above and Tony is right about embeding in the Exif
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Without wishing to pretend to be "professional", if I may please let me pass on my thoughts....

Firstly, the chances of a local paper paying for any pics are slim indeed and then only if you've caught something unique (I'm assuming you weren't the only one privy to this firework display) and it is of local interest. I've had a look at your Flickrstream and, whilst your fireworks pics are nice, they appear to all just be images of fireworks against a black sky, there are no buildings or landmarks in them to provide any "local" interest and that is what the paper would want, if they wanted such images at all.

For that reason, and sorry if this comes across as harsh,I can't see any reason why a newspaper editor would want to pay for them, especially as they've probably been sent hundreds of similar images by other local photographers, for free......
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I appreciate the honesty and I know where you're coming from. But if "you don't ask you don't get," and I feel at least even if there's a slim chance the editor might be interested in one or two images then at least i've made an effort in approaching the paper rather than sitting around letting them come to me.
In a realistic world that is never going to happen and I might not be the best photographer in the world :lol: but at least there not holiday snaps i'm wanting something for, to my credit.
 
RjLPhotography said:
I appreciate the honesty and I know where you're coming from. But if "you don't ask you don't get," and I feel at least even if there's a slim chance the editor might be interested in one or two images then at least i've made an effort in approaching the paper rather than sitting around letting them come to me.
In a realistic world that is never going to happen and I might not be the best photographer in the world :lol: but at least there not holiday snaps i'm wanting something for, to my credit.
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Out of interest, if they asked you to name your price how much would you want for each image?
 
Scrimja said:
A possibly silly question, but do you set up all this exif data in camera, or is there a way of setting it up to automatically be put in in Lightroom?
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Yes, you can create presets that are applied to images when they are imported into Lightroom, including additions to the exif data.
 
As a pro, I'd advise you to have listened to Kipax. He hit the nail on the head.

You've not really done things the right way, so I'll wait with baited breath to see if you get anything...
 
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If they accepted one of my shots...i'm probably undervaluating myself given the logistical cost of petrol, setting up, editing, marketing, but I would hasten a negotiable fee of £25 per picture (with credits.)
 
RjLPhotography said:
If they accepted one of my shots...i'm probably undervaluating myself given the logistical cost of petrol, setting up, editing, marketing, but I would hasten a negotiable fee of £25 per picture (with credits.)
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Setting up? Editing? Marketing? Any chance of a rundown of what costs you've incurred (and indeed what you've done) with regards to these pics? From what I can see all you've done is turn up at a (I assume) local fireworks display and take some snapshots with a bridge camera, so I'm struggling to see where "setting up" or "marketing" comes in to the the equation, never mind "editing".....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Setting up? Editing? Marketing? Any chance of a rundown of what costs you've incurred (and indeed what you've done) with regards to these pics? From what I can see all you've done is turn up at a (I assume) local fireworks display and take some snapshots with a bridge camera, so I'm struggling to see where "setting up" or "marketing" comes in to the the equation, never mind "editing".....
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Now now Graham, give the man some credit...he's made a "company name" from his initials. That's marketing gold. :nuts:

Look, Robert...I'm going to be very blunt;

1. The photos you have are not exactly what you'd see in the paper, with the possible exception of it being in the "Readers Snaps" section.

2. If this is the only fireworks display in the area, chances are the newspaper have sent a freelancer or staffer to get some shots.

3. If you were really attempting to punt these to the papers, you need shots that show a bit of context; ie. crowds, bonfire, people enjoying themselves, kids with sparklers etc.

4. Technically speaking, the photos are so-so. I could go into it at length, but there are probably plenty of people on here who could do a much better job of explaining how to take better fireworks photos.

5. You asked for advice, received exactly that (and very good advice too) but then ignored it and did something different. Kipax gave you the advice because thats the process he goes through...it works for him, why shouldn't it work for you?

6. What editing, marketing and setting up have you done?
 
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You have to think that the editors get loads of photos to go through each day, just have a look at the number of photos in the paper and they probably have 4 options for each photo that gets in to the paper. if they have to add additional steps like going to flikr, or asking for a highres image you reduce the chances of getting an image used. Send everything as if it will be used. you will find papers dont really care about the image they use any fireworks photo is a fireworks photo be it from this year or 5 years ago. I shot a local sports event and was asked for photos unfortnatly I was at work and couldn't submit they went with an image from 3 years ago of the event. lesson learnt I now have remote acecss to my pc from work. Presets setup with all the info Tony (Kipax) said in lightroom and it makes sending photos really easy.
 
Disphotic said:
Yes, you can create presets that are applied to images when they are imported into Lightroom, including additions to the exif data.
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Cheers, I've now googled it and worked out how to do it :D
 
RjLPhotography said:
I appreciate the honesty and I know where you're coming from. But if "you don't ask you don't get," and I feel at least even if there's a slim chance the editor might be interested in one or two images then at least i've made an effort in approaching the paper rather than sitting around letting them come to me.
In a realistic world that is never going to happen and I might not be the best photographer in the world :lol: but at least there not holiday snaps i'm wanting something for, to my credit.
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No, instead you sent them a Flickr link and then sat around waiting for them to choose some.

Maybe if you got some gumption and got your finger out and edited your work down to 3-5 good images and sent them out with the IPTC data as suggested then you'd get somewhere.

Edit: Wasn't much point sending out your Flickr link when you've closed your account was there?
 
shane1980 said:
Gary get a life
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Gosh, that really makes me want to pass on advice.

It's people like you that made me remove my tutorial, and when people PM me asking why, I'll be sure to point out your crap attitude in this thread.
 
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Charlatan said:
FWIW, Kipax thanks for your input in this thread. At least others now know how to approach this if we had usable shots...
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Cheers... However I hope the OP hasnt taken the hump ...
 
KIPAX said:
Cheers... However I hope the OP hasnt taken the hump ...
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looks like he has Tony, he asked for advice ignored it, and caught the flak, shame really as the advice was spot on, shame about the shots on his flickr weren't, but as he didnt post the pics we shouldnt have really commented on them :shrug: but we were bound to look to see what he was offering the paper

a lot of members asked about how to take firework shots again this year, as always, I said trying to give some pointers, get some context a feeling of the even. Did many of them nope, I was disappointed in this years shots by members only 3 or 4 had any sense of the event, I was surprised how many just had a boring explosions in the boring black sky
 
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To the OP,
I think it's a great shame if you've taken this to heart and decided not to post any more. I say that on seeing that your Flickr is no longer active after noticing the broken links in your other threads.
You asked a question and received some very good advice. Advice here is free, but of course it's entirely up to you whether you choose to take it - just don't be surprised if people get a little frustrated after they've taken the time to help and find that their advice is seemingly ignored.

Pick yourself up, get your camera back out and learn from the experience. There's a wealth of knowledge on this site and people more than happy to share it. It just takes a little willing on your part to accept it in the spirit in which it was offered.


Dave,
I honestly think that commenting on his photos was well within the spirit of the thread - they were the ones that he was submitting, so I think it was more than fair to offer advice on them.

Back on track, there's some very good advice in here - and even if the OP doesn't return to the thread, it looks like there are other posters benefiting from it. Time to move on and focus on the original question I think.
 
AlfyB said:
Don't think I'm anywhere near the stage of submitting to papers but some interesting info on here.



I'd never heard of IPTC data. Did some digging and came across this Photoshop plugin - http://www.iptc.org/std/photometadata/documentation/IPTC-CS5-FileInfo-UserGuide_6.pdf. Thought others might be interested.
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I (and mostother press photographers I've spoken to) do it in Photomechanic. It's a good program for importing and quickly editing down and adding IPTC and it's not too expensive.
 
Lesson 3 in this sorry saga, 1 being how to submit and 2 being IPTC, is that if you can't take rejection and don't have a skin as thick as Rhino hide, don't play the game! :)
 
SarahLee said:
Dave,
I honestly think that commenting on his photos was well within the spirit of the thread - they were the ones that he was submitting, so I think it was more than fair to offer advice on them.
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I agree in a way, but OP didnt submit them for crit just said that they were on their flickr, more asking for advice about submitting, which then was completely ignored

Shame OP felt they had to close their flickr hope it hasnt put the OP off TP as said it was all good advice,
 
Many thanks for the advice here, I once had a picture published locally of a football match but didn't get paid. I will follow this now I am getting more into photography and see if the millions flood in

:)
 
Another thanks Tony. I had absolutely no idea of how the system works and should I ever get a suitable shot now know what to do.
 
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