How to get portrait shots with no flash shadow?

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Hi,

I will be wanting to achieve some toddler/kids portrait shots at home where I don't want any shadow from the flash in the shot.

Is the only way to achieve this by using products like this?
http://www.lastolite.com/hilite-backgrounds.php

Any help/pointers will be appreciated.

Cheers,
dac :)
 
Thats not the only way no....Try not using flash...

Are you trying to get into portraits on the cheap?
 
Don't use onboard flash.

Use an external flash and bounce it off the ceiling is the first step. Then get something to diffuse the flash more.

This is before you start going for off camera/multiple flash setups.
 
Any kind of light source will provide shadow - it's how you deal with those shadows that matters, using either fill light, reflected light or just leave then as they are for more mood.

Shadow on subjects is GOOD - it gives depth to an image.

As far as getting a white background goes, if the light casts a shadows on the background that looks unsightly then you need to either change the distance of the subject-to-backgroudn so the shadow falls out of shot, change the angle of the lighting so the shadow again falls out of shot, or you need to light the background with several stops more light to kill the shadows and effectively over expose them.

A lot of people use those HilIte backgrounds and they work well to create pure white backgrounds. You still need a flash to go inside it and you'll need a light on the subject to balance things out and stop the subject looking underexposed.

Out of interest, why do you want a white background? Different coloured cloths (greys, reds, blues) are just as effective as backgrounds and with the right lighting, can look great. Plus, they're a darn sight cheeper if you buy from a haberdashery....
 
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'7DayShop', 'Dome Diffuser', work great, well worth a look,
Jim
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. It's warming and appreciated. :thumbs:

KIPAX,
I have taken pics without using flash, but I suppose I wasn't clear in my initial post with what I wanted to achieve.
I have a 1 year old baby and want to try and get this effect.
http://www.pixifoto.co.uk/upload/images/13_132809260724447.jpg

RichardtheSane & specialman,
I have tried bouncing of the ceiling with a SB-600 on top of my D300 and have noticed that I get soft shadows near the eyes and chin area.
Maybe I was too close.
Would 2 off camera flashes work better? i.e. firing from the left and right simultaneously.

specialman,
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "You still need a flag to go inside it". :thinking:
white background? trying to get a similar pic to the above :)

jimybell,
Will take a look at what/how to use a "Dome Diffuser". :thumbs:

Thanks all.
dac :)
 
Pixi have two lights in front of the subject and two just behind, trained on the backdrop to get that effect. They have plenty of studios that struggle to achieve those results, especially with larger than baby sized customers.
 
PIXIFOTO achieve the result you want, but you should be able to do it much better. It looks as though they've over exposed the BG and as a result they are losing edge definition round the subject
 
dac said:
....
specialman,
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "You still need a flag to go inside it". :thinking:
white background? trying to get a similar pic to the above :)
....
Click to expand...

flag = flash.... damn autocorrect on OSX :bang:
 
dac said:
Thanks for all the replies so far. It's warming and appreciated. :thumbs:

KIPAX,
I have taken pics without using flash, but I suppose I wasn't clear in my initial post with what I wanted to achieve.
I have a 1 year old baby and want to try and get this effect.
http://www.pixifoto.co.uk/upload/images/13_132809260724447.jpg

RichardtheSane & specialman,
I have tried bouncing of the ceiling with a SB-600 on top of my D300 and have noticed that I get soft shadows near the eyes and chin area.
Maybe I was too close.
Would 2 off camera flashes work better? i.e. firing from the left and right simultaneously.

specialman,
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "You still need a flag to go inside it". :thinking:
white background? trying to get a similar pic to the above :)

jimybell,
Will take a look at what/how to use a "Dome Diffuser". :thumbs:

Thanks all.
dac :)
Click to expand...

That's clearer with the link :).

As said above, lights on the background and lights on the subject - the background is generally several stops above the subject light (e.g. background at f/11, subject/foreground at f/5.6-8). It kills the detail and any shadow falling on the white backdrop and basically bleaches it out, in a sense :)

As for bounce flash, you'll get shadows anywhere that is not directly exposed to the direction of the light. Bounce off a ceiling and you'll get shadows under chins and brows; bounce off a wall and you'll get one side of the face in shadow.

Generally, bouncing off a large surface like a ceiling makes the light source have a larger apparent size so the drop-off into shadows are softer and often not that dense.

One way to make these shadows less noticeable is to use a reflective surface (a piece of white card) so it reflects light back into the shadows. In your case, bouncing off the ceiling you'd have the reflector on the ground or facing upwards out of shot.
 
Thank you everyone for the advice. :thumbs:

specialman,
when you say "lights on the background and lights on the subject", do you mean lamps or flash?
i am assuming flash and you want the flash on top of my camera to be lighting the subject and have a off camera flash shooting from behind the background?
both flash's set to manual mode and dialled in at f11 and f5.6 respectively?
which direction/height should the background flash be firing from?
right behind the head shooting straight through back to the camera or from the floor shooting upwards?)

sorry for the newbie flash questions :)
 
Don't bounce off the ceiling, bounce off the wall behind yourself. Only works if the wall is not very far away and your flash is strong enough, and works best with white walls so you don't get a color cast from the walls, but it definitely does work and gives very soft shadows as the light bounces off the wall, then off the floor, ceiling, and side walls, and hits the subject from all sides at once. I would suggest getting a manequin or willing test subject and just playing around with bouncing flash in your home until you get an idea of how it really works.
 
If your using the onboard flash, then you need to diffuse the harsh single direction flash.
In a pinch I've used paper just to diffuse it, but jimybell mentioned, 7dayshop, dome diffuser. failing that, possibly place subject in a place where there is more 'usable' light and switch the flash off.
 
I think it's a general understanding of light that's missing.

Step back and look at the way light behaves. A small light creates harsh shadows, a larger light produces softer ones; think about a bright sun vs an overcast sky.

when you're lighting a subject you are controlling the direction, size, colour and amount of light.

In your example you want to light a subject with a large source from slightly off camera (to create a small amount of shadow / modelling) and light the background with a slightly brighter even light - as Pat said this would ideally take 2 lights.

For the purpose of learning, windows, reflectors lamps and flashes are all light sources, they have different basic properties but can all be manipulated to alter them.

The easiest way to control light in a studio setting is to use flash and fitted modifiers. Using studio type lights is easier than small flashguns because you get modelling lamps so you can see the results of moving lights etc. Using window light is weather dependant and using continuous sources you'll end up juggling colours and high ISO's.

If you study some portraits and some on line lighting tutorials (I think theres some on the Lencarta site) you will be able to learn how to read lighting.

If you really want a go at recreating that look on a budget, hire a studio - they're available all over the place and if you're a newbie, they'll probably help with some lighting setup.
 
On board flash is horrible harsh light, avoid if possible!
 
This could turn out to be expensive for a one-off so I agree with Phil, hire a studio for an hour or 2. Also, I think you're still a bit off trying to achieve this shot if you need to be guided through the whole process bit by bit. You could think about other creative ideas using natural light & your home as the backdrop (which, personally, I think make much more pleasing images)
 
Sphinx said:
I use this and its great!

http://www.instructables.com/id/Ikea-Flash-Diffuser/?ALLSTEPS

Simple and cheap - no harsh shadows.

Worth a shot before you go hire/buy a setup.
Click to expand...

Don't want to sound picky, but the results from that according to the samples aren't worth the effort. The most pleasing image there was from the bare ceiling bounced flash. But that doesn't give a flattering shadow from an on camera flash.

To give any attractive modelling to a face, the light needs to be off camera. Whether that's window light or flash, for flash the cheapest method is a tripod mounted flashgun and sync cord.

The strobist site is a great source of info. But for someone who doesnt understand the basics of light shaping, either studio kit or natural light are better because they are wisiwyg.
 
Thanks again for all the advice guys. :)

I've tried ceiling bounce and although sometimes I'm happy with the mood effect it gives, I am wanting to try this "white" background look, so will try and attempt this with two SB-600's on a white background with train. (keeping my boys still will be another challenge altogether so will try and test it out on a stationery large object. thanks arentol for recommending)

In the meantime I'm trying to learn a bit more about flash tog by checking out some videos on YouTube.
TKK kindly recommended this link to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHpmd0-1ZyE&list=PLBFFAAB4349D9D4BC&feature=plcp
 
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for head and shoulder portraits what about a ringflash adaptor for your camera?

for the others then I would try two off camera flashes.
the more lighting the better but depends upon what you can feasibly use.

some pros recently at a wedding used a portable white background,
two lamps in front of the subjects and two "in" the background to illuminate it
 
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Another option for losing shadows is to put the flash on a bracket like a Stroboframe. I used this a lot at weddings when photographing in low light indoors when I needed to stop harsh shadows on walls. By rotating the the flash above the lens the shadow drops behind the subject.

For portrait sessions studio lights are the way to go & a stroboframe doesn't help with white backgrounds!

Phil
 
All the advice you have been given is very good but it appears a bit expensive. Why don't you try reflectors... you can reflect the light on to the background to eliminate shadow and you can also reflect the light from the bounced flash on to the face of your subject to eliminate facial shadow under eyes etc. You can buy reflectors reasonably cheaply or you could even make them using a large piece of cardboard covered with a white sheet or even tin foil which works just as well. Try this first, it might save you lots of money. Good luck.
 
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