How much would you pay to photograph red kites?

As Pete says South Oxfordshire is dripping with them - not unusual to see 4-6 at once around Wallingford or Didcot. I wouldn't dream of paying to shoot them.
 
I take it then that all of you that are slagging people that pay for hides would never pay then, no matter what? And of course your photographs are so different from everyone elses are they? Odd I dont really see anything exceptionally different on here very often.

Easy to be high and mighty if you have access to a large variety of species but for a lot of people they dont have that access. It seems that in your minds they should stick to photographing blue tits if that all they can get!!
 
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I think £22 is quite a reasonable fee to visit a site that offers an excellent vantage point to try and get shots that would otherwise elude. No one is twisting your arm to pay the fee, if you don't want to pay it, you don't have to go there.
 
I visit Gigrin 2 or 3 times a year and pay for the hide that will more or less get me the shots i am looking for ,i have shots from Harewood house as well that are free for me,but i print of my images and sell them and the gigrin shots do sell well on a good month ,i have been waiting for years to get the snow alert message from them so i can shoot down and get the snow shots , and for that yes i would pay the asking fee at whatever hide i can get the shot i am looking for,going back on paid hides i have had numerous people message ,contact ,email me regarding my little owl sites and how much i charge,only freinds visit and i dont charge as its not a professional set up which i do make very clear , and saying its not a pro set up i have been contacted by a very well know proffesional wildlife photographer about my set up as well as many other people some wanting to bring their own perches ....if spending hundreds on WTE hide shots gives you the fix your looking for then fine but in my opinion nothing beats going out and finding subjects you enjoy to the point were you can spend hours with them ,i would also like to add that i have been offered money over the last couple of years for spending time in my little owl hide and i have refused to go down that route and take it from me if i had taken money i could quite easily be the owner of a 500mm f4 now , as i know what other sites charge for a day in a little owl hide .
 
I don't know if we're allowed to name names here but lets just say Pete C***** has an article in Outdoor Photography bemoaning the increase in these ready made wildlife photo opportunities. I could quote endlessly from the article but will leave it at this -

"It would be a great shame if the photographic teachers of today, for the sake of a quick buck, taught the new wave of wildlife photographers not to think for themselves"

Yet he is one of the original exponents of pay-to-visit hides in the UK. £100 a day now, according to the website mentioned above.
 
Gaz J said:
I take it then that all of you that are slagging people that pay for hides would never pay then, no matter what? And of course your photographs are so different from everyone elses are they? Odd I dont really see anything exceptionally different on here very often.

Easy to be high and mighty if you have access to a large variety of species but for a lot of people they dont have that access. It seems that in your minds they should stick to photographing blue tits if that all they can get!!
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Gaz J said:
I take it then that all of you that are slagging people that pay for hides would never pay then, no matter what? And of course your photographs are so different from everyone elses are they? Odd I dont really see anything exceptionally different on here very often.

Easy to be high and mighty if you have access to a large variety of species but for a lot of people they dont have that access. It seems that in your minds they should stick to photographing blue tits if that all they can get!!
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I agree with this point of view, I can't see any harm in the availability of pay to use hides and personally used them to obtain images, were I had no other access to the species in question. I also think it is unfair of the OP to specifically pick on Gigrin. So what they seem to be making a success and there pricing reflects this - good. Hopefully they will reinvest the money in further conservation measures..... Assuming their are a few well off photographer I assume the prices will continue to rise, certain people seem to want to spend a lot of cash to shot deer or catch trout.....

jerry12953 said:
I don't know if we're allowed to name names here but lets just say Pete C***** has an article in Outdoor Photography bemoaning the increase in these ready made wildlife photo opportunities. I could quote endlessly from the article but will leave it at this -

"It would be a great shame if the photographic teachers of today, for the sake of a quick buck, taught the new wave of wildlife photographers not to think for themselves"

Yet he is one of the original exponents of pay-to-visit hides in the UK. £100 a day now, according to the website mentioned above.
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This might be a genuine concern, but I assume most people who use these hides are time poor and don't have the time/location to develop their own sites. The self-similarity of these images will impose some sort of limit on the popularity of single hide, as already expressed.
 
I picked on Gigrin because I happened to call in there yesterday!

The extent and expense of these pay-to-enter hides has been more apparent since I originally posted. I think I read somewhere that the RSPB is looking into it (or has maybe even started......?). Doesn't the WWF have specific photography hides as well somewhere?
 
We went to Laurieston near Castle Douglas last w/e. That cost £4. They did put an awful lot of meat down; don't know if the economics add up, but they seem to be getting a lot of Tourist Board involvement, and that presumably means a cash input.
 
Gigrin I find quite good, for both the vantage point of being pretty much level with the birds, and getting some nice, clean backgrounds and decent light on the birds. I have tried others, such as Llanddeussent (sp?) but I personally didn't find it particularly good, although you do get the birds sitting in the tree very close to the hides which is something to consider.
I keep thinking that Gigrin is extortionate compared to how much it used to be and other places, but then when you compare them to prices of commercial hides, it makes it look like a bargain. I am yet to try that other place that people have mentioned, but from a quick google it looks fascinating. :)
As for commercial hides, if you aren't lucky enough to know someone with access to X species, or they aren't in your neck of the woods and want to photograph a species, then you really don't have much of an option, not everyone is so lucky.
I live out in the sticks in Cornwall, from experience if you want to find a species you have to do it yourself as no one is interested in helping you, even if you know x species is about.
 
What it all boils down too at the end of the day is choice and opinions, strangely for a forum people seem to struggle with that basic fact :thinking:
If people get pleasure from something that doesn't appeal to me then good on them but they should except conflicting opinions.
 
den said:
I visit Gigrin 2 or 3 times a year and pay for the hide that will more or less get me the shots i am looking for ,i have shots from Harewood house as well that are free for me,but i print of my images and sell them and the gigrin shots do sell well on a good month ,i have been waiting for years to get the snow alert message from them so i can shoot down and get the snow shots , and for that yes i would pay the asking fee at whatever hide i can get the shot i am looking for,going back on paid hides i have had numerous people message ,contact ,email me regarding my little owl sites and how much i charge,only freinds visit and i dont charge as its not a professional set up which i do make very clear , and saying its not a pro set up i have been contacted by a very well know proffesional wildlife photographer about my set up as well as many other people some wanting to bring their own perches ....if spending hundreds on WTE hide shots gives you the fix your looking for then fine but in my opinion nothing beats going out and finding subjects you enjoy to the point were you can spend hours with them ,i would also like to add that i have been offered money over the last couple of years for spending time in my little owl hide and i have refused to go down that route and take it from me if i had taken money i could quite easily be the owner of a 500mm f4 now , as i know what other sites charge for a day in a little owl hide .
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I think that this attitude reflects well on you Den. Many people would take the money. I would be the same as you. Keep it small and enjoy the experience. Little owls are very thin down my way and one of the most reliable ways to see them is on Skomer which of course you have to pay to go on!!

For those that can photograph Red Kites free of charge, thats great, but they can only do it because of places like Gigrin that have been part of the conservation programme for many years.

Its down to what you can find where you live. I am more than happy to spend hours and days trying to find good opportunities to photograph different things. But if you want to photograph Ospreys for example then youre going to normally have to pay unless you get very lucky. Same with White tail eagles. For most they have to use someone to get them close to the birds.

Neil B said:
What it all boils down too at the end of the day is choice and opinions, strangely for a forum people seem to struggle with that basic fact :thinking:
If people get pleasure from something that doesn't appeal to me then good on them but they should except conflicting opinions.
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Im quite happy to accept conflicting opinions. Doesnt make those that put them forward better photographers because they've not paid for the image. If youre trying to sell images prospective clients aint going to give a toss where you've taken it if it fulfills their brief.
 
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Gaz J said:
I think that this attitude reflects well on you Den. Many people would take the money. I would be the same as you. Keep it small and enjoy the experience. Little owls are very thin down my way and one of the most reliable ways to see them is on Skomer which of course you have to pay to go on!!

For those that can photograph Red Kites free of charge, thats great, but they can only do it because of places like Gigrin that have been part of the conservation programme for many years.

Its down to what you can find where you live. I am more than happy to spend hours and days trying to find good opportunities to photograph different things. But if you want to photograph Ospreys for example then youre going to normally have to pay unless you get very lucky. Same with White tail eagles. For most they have to use someone to get them close to the birds.



Im quite happy to accept conflicting opinions. Doesnt make those that put them forward better photographers because they've not paid for the image. If youre trying to sell images prospective clients aint going to give a toss where you've taken it if it fulfills their brief.
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I can't remember anyone saying they are better than anyone else :thinking:
My personal view of wildlife photography is that you earn your shots by putting the time in, don't get me wrong, I have done many easy turn up shot and run locations.
The only problem is that it lacks the sense of achievement and when I look at the shots the buzz is missing.
I shot for pleasure and am not a pro so maybe I'm lucky that I don't have to take it to seriously :)
 
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No one did say it but the implication is there. That somehow a image of an osprey, for example, taken from the bank of a loch is somehow more real than one taken from Rothiemurchus.

If you continue the discussion from paying hides to baiting and captive animals and birds then it becomes a never ending list of do's and dont's.

Paying for pics doesnt guarantee good images, there is still a skill in achieving them, no real difference to setting up a hide on a river bank to photograph dippers, kingfishers etc.

I dont pay for much but will happily do so if it suits. Ive done the ospreys and the white tail eagles and I did get a buzz out of it. But the buzz is from the pleasure of seeing these birds up close so when I look at my pics its a reminder of that time. Hopefully my pics do them justice but that isnt always the case.

Ive never sold a pic in my life and doubt that I ever will. Too lazy to make the effort, too wrapped up in just enjoying being out with the camera when I get the opportunity.

As you said its a matter of choice. I wish I didnt have to do it but am enough of a realist to accept that for some species its virtually the only way.
 
I wonder why you need a hide at all at these feeding sites. Bwlch Nant-yr-Arian doesn't have one. You can just stand on a natural bit of land that extends into the lake and shoot away as the birds swoop down for the food. You get a nice natural background of trees too.
 
Zephyr said:
from experience if you want to find a species you have to do it yourself as no one is interested in helping you, even if you know x species is about.
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I agree with this also. You get the odd comment from dog walkers and such when you're out but you ask local photographers and you're often lucky to hear back at all, especially with some more touchy subjects like Kingfishers. I recall there were come SEO locally a few winters ago and it was this big secret that no one wanted to share.

I'd pay £22, I've paid £400 odd for Skomer next year too. Yes it's a lot and I'll come back with more of the same images as everyone else but I will have had the experience. And probably a lot of tern poo to wash off my stuff.

As said many people don't have the time to stake out spots for days on end. I don't think this means we should be excluded from the wildlife world just because we have a 9-5 and a family. I try get out when I can but generally this means 2 hours maybe 3 if I am lucky. I was lucky to have some roe deer I followed for a while but they seem to have vanished and I've not seem them in over a year now. I'd like to spend time to try relocate them but I'd rather spend those 2-3 hours pointing the camera at something not hunting around the local farm lands and be lucky to see 1 deer once in 5 trips (actual numbers based on the few scouting trips I've managed this year).

Does this make me less of a photographer, I don't think so but many would say it does I suspect.
 
maninsuitcase said:
I'd pay £22, I've paid £400 odd for Skomer next year too. Yes it's a lot and I'll come back with more of the same images as everyone else but I will have had the experience. And probably a lot of tern poo to wash off my stuff.
.
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You've paid £400 to stay on Skomer (a week?) but you get the whole experience of being on a beautiful island for a week. Within the limits set by the Wildlife Trust you can go where you want, and take whatever photographs you want. You're not sitting in garden shed for a couple of hours!

Those pictures of red squirrels, crested tits, ospreys, etc that are all over the place now are fabulous. Perfect! But for me anyway they are devalued slightly by the knowledge that the whole thing is a set up.
 
That's kind of the point I was trying to make. For me it's not just about the photo but the experience. Just seeing the red kites in Wales when on holiday this year was amazing.

I didn't pay to goto gigrin but saw them in the hills easy of Aberystwyth, at times I was above birds flying in the valleys. The spectacle was amazing to see.
 
eccles said:
I wonder why you need a hide at all at these feeding sites. Bwlch Nant-yr-Arian doesn't have one. You can just stand on a natural bit of land that extends into the lake and shoot away as the birds swoop down for the food. You get a nice natural background of trees too.
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Comfort? It'll make it a lot more pleasant to keep shooting in conditions like rain and snow.
 
We get them cruising past the bedroom window in the morning sometimes and to be honest they are just everywhere. But I've never really tried photographing them.

A lot of trees (larches) have been felled at Bwlch Nant-yr-arian recently so I wonder what the backdrop is like now.
 
jerry12953 said:
A lot of trees (larches) have been felled at Bwlch Nant-yr-arian recently so I wonder what the backdrop is like now.
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You still get trees as the oof background for most of the place some is now just sky & the light is so much better now on a dull day my reading was ISO 8000 now its only about ISO 2000
 
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