How Much To hire A Tog...

kenethj

kenethj

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ken
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How Much To hire A Tog...:help:

I am trying to gauge what I Would expect to pay for an evenings (6-11) work for an event. would like a good Amateur
I am looking to print and sell the photos during the evening.
I would keep copyright ( not that it's much use after the event )

Any advice would be appreciated.

ken
 
that was quick, lets say local.. or would allow for travel over and abovet he hire cost
 
Are they making money on the prints, or are you?

Are they just paid a flat rate?
 
Also, to print and sell during the event is quite a task, usually requiring extra equipment and an extra body [human that is], especially if a busyish event. A cheaper alternative might be to allow the tog to take orders and send prints on. Even amateurs would be unwilling to give up copyright unless there was a hefty fee involved.
 
If we were to do this (we do this a lot), we usually require £40.00 per hour (per person), plus material costs and travelling at 40p per mile.

That gets you a tog and a printer, with printers and computers (displays), onsite editing and printing up to 16 x 12 (with framing available too).

Just as an idea what we charge.

We don't usually give the images away though - copyright would usually stay with us unless prior agreement financially (just to give you an idea :))
 
Lee p
Thanks for the comments, the way I was looking at it was

Tog = flat fee
I would supply all printing equipment and sell the prints and after all expenses I would take the profit

Copyright is bit of a side issue for these types of events it's not much use but I can then ensure the client the images will not be used elsewhere
 
inaneredstripe
Thanks for the your reply i understand about the pro Who would want to charge that much. what I need is someone looking to go pro and needs to gain some experience. the other option is to say...

Amateur Tog works on a percentage of the evenings takings, what %, would need to work that one out.

ken
 
Are you wanting to start a business relationship with this person or are you wanting to use them a couple of times before they move on? If you want a solid relationship then I would consider a good rate of pay £50-£100 for the event or a profit sharing deal e.g 15 - 20%. However, if you wanted a good am for a couple of events they can be found free or for significantly less e.g. £30 and a pint, but be prepared for them to start stealing business from you as those that respond are likely to want experience before going it alone.

The copyright issue comes down to whether you employ them or procure a photography service. If you employ them then you would normally own the Copyright as the employer, if you procure a photography service the tog would own the Copyright. However in both cases this is something that can and should be confirmed or altered in a contract.
 
ladylens
the reason i am asking this question is i would be the one doing the printing and selling ( hopefully ). I would like to sell on the night as it should increase the sales.

the other option is to say...

Amateur Tog works on a percentage of the evenings takings only , what %, would need to work that one out.
 
kenethj said:
ladylens
the reason i am asking this question is i would be the one doing the printing and selling ( hopefully ). I would like to sell on the night as it should increase the sales.

the other option is to say...

Amateur Tog works on a percentage of the evenings takings only , what %, would need to work that one out.
Click to expand...

I guess it would come down to what you hope to sell, then I would imagine the figure / percentage would come out the sameish, only with more risk to the tog going on the %tage basis ?
 
So let me get this right then Ken. You need someone good who doesn't really know it yet to supply the talent while you supply a computer and printer. For this roughly even split of work and time, you'll be wanting to come away with the lions share of the money that's made?

The sad thing is that you'll get plenty of offers but the real trick is how will you know who can cut it on the night? It's a tough gig getting good shots of people on a conveyor belt system and snappers that can do it are well worth the premium.

Good luck with it all. :)
 
hi simon
some good advice in you reply.

I would like to see this as an ongoing business relationship, but as they get more experience i would also expect them to move on to do there own thing.
I am not looking to rip anyone off, as I could go and work for a tog if they had an event and needed prints on the night it weeds to right for both parties.


thanks for taking time to reply

ken
 
dseered said:
I guess it would come down to what you hope to sell, then I would imagine the figure / percentage would come out the sameish, only with more risk to the tog going on the %tage basis ?
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hi dseered
The only risk to both parties would be equal, lost of time and travel costs,
make some sales and start getting your name around
 
dazzajl said:
So let me get this right then Ken. You need someone good who doesn't really know it yet to supply the talent while you supply a computer and printer. For this roughly even split of work and time, you'll be wanting to come away with the lions share of the money that's made?

The sad thing is that you'll get plenty of offers but the real trick is how will you know who can cut it on the night? It's a tough gig getting good shots of people on a conveyor belt system and snappers that can do it are well worth the premium.

Good luck with it all. :)
Click to expand...

hi dazzajl
No i don't want to walk away with the lions share but if I am the one chasing and booking the events then as in all business that time needs to be payed for along with any other costs. If a tog I was working with found his/her own gig and wanted me to attend to do the printing I be taking less, it needs to work both ways

thanks for you reply
 
dazzajl said:
The sad thing is that you'll get plenty of offers
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You are quite correct and I am one of those. I have the opportunity this weekend to be the official Tog at a Polo tournament, but the fee is a fraction of what I would normally get for an equine portraiture shoot. But it's an "in" for me and the networking opportunities will be very good.

I think this is the OP's point in that he is giving somebody the chance to get a foot in the door rather than hiring an already established Pro, so it could be a win for both sides.
 
Just so you know, I'm an amateur photographer, and only myself done 3 or 4 gigs, with payment to cover the time, processing and printing, so I wouldn't call myself professional.

My photos aren't exactly groundbreaking, but if you wanted to keep the copyright, I would want a substantial sum of money, talking £50+ for each photo.
In my opinion, the copyright of their photos is the most important thing to a tog, and I wouldn't give mine up just because someone wanted it.

And by the sounds of it you ideally want someone to work for free for 'the experience', effectively using them to your advantage. Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but its just the way its come across.
I would do it for free, expenses wise (just cover the cost of travel) but I would want a cut of the profits, 25% I'd be happy with, considering they're my photos.
I'm not offering my services, simply telling you what to expect.
 
I would want a substantial sum of money, talking £50+ for each photo.
In my opinion, the copyright of their photos is the most important thing to a tog, and I wouldn't give mine up just because someone wanted it.
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Why dude?

I think this is all getting out of hand and snappers are getting to be more concerned with who owns the image than they are with getting out there and making them.

In the commercial world it should be about being paid to use your creativity for the benefit of the client. Why would you even want the rights on some shots of a bunch of strangers out for a meal?

It's like a plumber stating who can use a bath they fit, or a dentist saying what you can eat with teeth they fix.

Then again, while I don't worry about copyright I do make sure I charge enough for the time I spend on a job. :)
 
kenethj said:
hi dazzajl
No i don't want to walk away with the lions share but if I am the one chasing and booking the events then as in all business that time needs to be payed for along with any other costs. If a tog I was working with found his/her own gig and wanted me to attend to do the printing I be taking less, it needs to work both ways

thanks for you reply
Click to expand...

It doesn't really work like that though. I paid for and organised my entire wedding, so the tog should not charge a lot - he's just turning up and pressing buttons right?

I think you'll get a lot more interest if you make it more attractive to people, but as said you will get those who simply want a way in to the business. As we have seen (and I am living proof) having all the right kit does not make good pictures, and bad pictures don't sell.

It sounds like it's a new(ish) venture for you as well? Why not try and find someone locally who can assist you with the entire setup?
 
dazzajl said:
Why dude?

I think this is all getting out of hand and snappers are getting to be more concerned with who owns the image than they are with getting out there and making them.

In the commercial world it should be about being paid to use your creativity for the benefit of the client. Why would you even want the rights on some shots of a bunch of strangers out for a meal?

It's like a plumber stating who can use a bath they fit, or a dentist saying what you can eat with teeth they fix.

Then again, while I don't worry about copyright I do make sure I charge enough for the time I spend on a job. :)
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Because a keen amateur wanting a foot in the door at event photography might just want at least some of those images to show what they are capable of to other prospective customers?!?! I know I would, never having done this sort of event before. Whilst the copyright is unlikely to be used commercially again, hanging on to it for portfolio purposes would be important to many.


However, for the benefit of those interested, what about studio equipment, would it be needed? If its an evening event, some flash lights, backdrop? Only asking because its no use volunteering if you havent got the right kit and I pressume Ken doesn't want to cover those kinds of costs, but I get the impression that 'formal portraits' is what is wanted rather than wandering round the room snapping?

Personally I wouldn't offer just because I really dont like 'indoor' work, I just dont know enough about flash photography or do enough to do it successfully, but I think if it was an outdoor type shoot and within a reasonable travel time, I would be looking at a small set fee depending on size of event and a percentage on prints sold, copyright stays mine, or may even some agreement before hand that I get to keep copy right on a number or percentage of shots of my choice.
 
At the weekend, the Polo club will be able to do as they wish with the photos, but I will retain copyright so that I am able to use the photos on my website. I will also be credited where the photos are used.

Maybe this is what the OP would want. Usage rights rather than copyright (As he said, the copyright is not much use to him after the event).
 
Because a keen amateur wanting a foot in the door at event photography might just want at least some of those images to show what they are capable of to other prospective customers?!?! I know I would
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That would fall outside "normal" copyright issues and if a client wanted full secrecy on shots then a seperate contract would be needed. There is a large difference between publishing shots and having a portfolio copy so I really don't see that there would be a problem in that area. :)
 
Thank you all for your views.
As I said at the start, I was just to trying to gauge the cost or the best way to work this (Tog on a %, fixed fee, partnership etc).I was not looking to upset anyone. The main reason to hire per job was we would both be free to go and work for with people.

Portable flash / studio, good point, must confess not thought much about that may be it would be better for me to invest in a set up??

This has all come from see a franchise event tog at a sports day, and then being asked if I would like to take some photos of my daughters dance production.

Thanks again :)
 
i don't have the skills to do what your requesting, however, reading this thread from my point of view. The copyright seems to be the sticking issue.

Is there not some way to agree in the contract before hand what both parties can do with the pictures.

for example. If your looking fro an amauter who wants their foot in door, they will want to use the pics in a portfolio / on a website you want the pics to sell at the event.
so why not agree that after the event you both take the money you have agreed on the tog gets to use the pics for a portfolio and you get to sell them on the night but neither of you can use the pics after for commercial reasons.

Just an idea:shrug:
 
The thing is even if the tog takes a % on the day, if he has give up the rights to the pics there is nothing to stop Ken from taking orders AFTER the event and the tog gets nothing!! im sure he not going to be ringing him says iv got a big fat cheque for ya dude..

But i DO see a good side to it aswell.. if the snapper keeps the images ***..
 
kenethj said:
This has all come from see a franchise event tog at a sports day, and then being asked if I would like to take some photos of my daughters dance production.
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this confuses me, you've been asked to take photos at your daughters dance production, but your asking for a photographer to now cover the event, is it a case of you realising that you dont have the necisary skills to take the pictures and your trying to fill the space with someone else or is it that your trying to subcontract the 'gig' to someone else to take the pictures so you can fly the laptop, print the pictures and sell them on....?


confused.com
 
fraggle101 said:
The thing is even if the tog takes a % on the day, if he has give up the rights to the pics there is nothing to stop Ken from taking orders AFTER the event and the tog gets nothing!! im sure he not going to be ringing him says iv got a big fat cheque for ya dude..
But i DO see a good side to it aswell.. if the snapper keeps the images ***..
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, and yes there may well be a few sales after the event, if it was a vast amount I would past on any %, but most if not all sales will be on the night. The thing about keeping control of the images is because their children involved

whitewash said:
this confuses me, you've been asked to take photos at your daughters dance production, but your asking for a photographer to now cover the event, is it a case of you realising that you dont have the necisary skills to take the pictures and your trying to fill the space with someone else or is it that your trying to subcontract the 'gig' to someone else to take the pictures so you can fly the laptop, print the pictures and sell them on....?

confused.com
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Hi whitewash
It all started with me just going along for myself to have a go at indoor shooting, I later found out they had tried to book an event photographer who could not make it, so I thought I have a look at what was possible, I know I don't have skills to take the shots hence this route. I was trying to come up with a fair solution to all parties. Afterwards review it and if all went well may look for more gigs
 
Impartial-Witness said:
PM me with the details i will be happy to concider your offer and discuss the intended shoot.
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Thanks imp, which area are you based in?. I have spoken to a local guy, and with the help of all posts have decided to go for a straight 50/50, we have both agreed that there is no value in the images after the event, but has fraggle pointed out after sales, we will have to work on trust, the tog also offered, if he picks up any work from the evening he pass on 10-15% of his fee has its work he would not have had.
We will start here and see how it goes.

Many thanks for all your help

Ken
 
kenethj said:
Thanks imp, which area are you based in?. I have spoken to a local guy, and with the help of all posts have decided to go for a straight 50/50, we have both agreed that there is no value in the images after the event, but has fraggle pointed out after sales, we will have to work on trust, the tog also offered, if he picks up any work from the evening he pass on 10-15% of his fee has its work he would not have had.
We will start here and see how it goes.

Many thanks for all your help

Ken
Click to expand...

I live in south kent so Essex is an easy drive for me plus i have a lot of family in the Southend area so i can stay over there if you need someone for a couple of days, get back to me if you need more help.
 
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