HOW HUNGRY ARE YOU TO IMPROVE?

DiddyDave said:
I suspect there's a point where you can become so 'arty' you produce crap thinking it's ace

Problem is, if by then you've convinced many others you are arty and way out too, those silly buggers may go along with it too :lol:

DD
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Yeah, its the gift of the gab, isn't it?

Do you think Gary might have it?;)
 
DiddyDave said:
So I'm thinking there's an arty element I'm just not seeing is the more likely explanation - same as when I (rarely) see any other form of art exhibition, piles of bricks, unmade beds and pickled sheep come to mind, just cause it's crap to me doesn't necessarily mean it is - I just don't 'get it'

DD
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I think if you have to produce a big wordy descriptive paragraph next to your picture then it's probably crap. Good pictures stand on their own.

There was an exhibition in the photographers gallery in London I saw where the photographer had visited a rubbish dump and picked out individual items and put them on a fence post. True rubbish shots, (in every sense) but a big wordy, worthy explanation to each pic. I just didn't get it.

Luckily the same day I walked past the Oxo gallery and Phillip Plisson had a showing. No descriptions, just stunning seascapes.
 
DiddyDave said:
I think this is often the 'art' side of things though :shrug:
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I know what you mean, but that's not what I was talking about. I'm talking portraits, or say, boring sports shots.
The stuff would get slated on pretty much any forum, but your average punter is less in the know.

It's what makes me think, just get out there and do it. I know there are many talented pro togs out there, but there are also plenty who are poor to say the least. I'm sure anybody on this forum would slot somewhere between the 2.
 
cyclone said:
Right, to throw another question into the mix.
I have seen photo's from pro togs that are, quite frankly, cr@p. I'm not talking about anybody on here I should add, actually these are pro's that don't hang around on forums and... QUOTE

"To be honest with you, I'm not really that interested in Photography, I just do it to make money."

END QUOTE ... so are we thinking about improving too much?


Again Luke Woodford comes to mind (just with decent photo's), gone from never held a camera to pro in a few months?
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Sorry maybe im reading this wrong but are you saying that im not that into photography?
 
This is one of the most interesting threads I've read on here in a while. Am I "hungry" to improve? I guess I have a desire to improve my photography, but it's not what I get up every morning to achieve. Looking back over the years my work has improved considerably, but not because I've been pushing myself to the limits and spending every spare minute trying to get "that" shot.
At heart, I'm a perfectionist. My problem is that I am often so busy that I don't have the time to spend as long as I'd like on doing anything as well as I'd like - and this isn't just limited to photography.
Sadly, while I understand the technical aspects of a camera very well I don't have much of an artistic eye and so despite visiting a lot of amazing places I often don't capture them at their best in a photo. I am getting better at realising the potential in scenes, but landscapes are a hard nut to crack - and you are very much at the mercy of the elements and light on the day.

I admire Gary for his determination, but I think it requires masses of time, energy, and a good helping of money. Sadly I'm lacking in all three components, and so as a result I just have to take a "best effort" to something that I don't think will ever progress from being more than a hobby for me.
 
lukewoodford said:
Sorry maybe im reading this wrong but are you saying that im not that into photography?
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No I'm saying you've had the balls to not mess about and get out there and earn some money.
All in a very short space of time. I wish I had your confidence and ability.
 
I am hungry to improve but and it is a big but for me.

1/ I have to stay away for work.
2/ have wife and 3 kids.
3/ have to stay away for work.
4/ have wife and kids.
5/ due to the above 4 I do not have the time that I would love to give to photography to improve the way I would like.
 
I do strive to improve and have taken steps to get there, i gave up work after 16 years in August last year and went to college full time to do a HNC. I'm now set to do a HND this coming year and looking to do more after that, i've found that although i haven't learned a huge amount more, i have learned to focus my mind on what i want.

my long term aim 9 months ago was a feature in Vogue...now i want to more into commercial/industrial (read corporate portraits) work and return at some point to a college to teach photography.

If after all this i can make a living from something i love then i'll be happy :)

(i'd be really happy to get a book published though ;) )
 
I have one simple goal. To make enough money per year with photography as i can doing some boring 9-5 that i've been doing for the past 15 years.
I don't want to be rich. I don't want to be famous. I just want to spend the rest of my working life doing something i enjoy.

That is my hunger :)
 
blinkerz said:
im hungry to improve, but what can you do if your naturally lazy:)
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'hungry' & 'lazy' don't really fit together well

You do quite a few model shoots it seems, and are getting better at them too (though I've not seen any bad ones as yet!) - in several I've noted you're not happy with the model - all of which suggests more 'hunger' than a lazy person would have

You've also stated you are rarely happy with your shots - yet you still do them - a lazy person would have given up

Have more faith in both your ability & your commitment to be better - you have plenty of both :)

Hope to meet you Saturday btw

DD
 
Mangelwurzel said:
I have one simple goal. To make enough money per year with photography as i can doing some boring 9-5 that i've been doing for the past 15 years.
I don't want to be rich. I don't want to be famous. I just want to spend the rest of my working life doing something i enjoy.

That is my hunger :)
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Had a peek at your Flickr m8 - if you don't make that move, it will be a travesty

Some good, imaginative stuff there :thumbs:

DD
 
Hungry to improve HELL YES!! But at the moment anything I do seems well carp:'(

I know what I want to do with my studio shots and this is a cash thing so that will have to wait.. Mostly time is the biggest issue. BUT due to the fact i have trouble keeping my little fella in my trousers. time is passing me by while I help change nappies :lol:

But the hunger is there and I will GET BETTER i AM SURE ;)

MD
 
chewyuk said:
What a great thread, best on here for ages!

Yep always looking at improving, but it's always a fine balance between family and trying to pursue a dream!
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I have to agree with Neil.
I spend most of my spare time with the kids, if I'm not mending a puncture, or going bodyboarding,cycling, playing on the Xbox (thats pretty cool:D), helping them wash the car, taking him mini biking/bmx-ing/cricket club or swimming, I'm taking my daughter to football games/training or just being a taxi.

With that I have to keep the house neat & freshly painted, the wife works evenings as well.:'(

So although I would love to spend my spare time togging, sometimes I just need to rest.;)

Maybe when my children are more independant, I'm sure I'll be able to have more time to spend on togging, but until then its just going to be a few hours here & there. And maybe the odd day on the Beacons.:thumbs:

So yes I'm always hungry for more, but my family will always come first.
(Until they are older.)


Any news yet Neil??:shrug:

Spence.
 
cyclone said:
Right, to throw another question into the mix.
I have seen photo's from pro togs that are, quite frankly, cr@p. I'm not talking about anybody on here I should add, actually these are pro's that don't hang around on forums and... QUOTE

"To be honest with you, I'm not really that interested in Photography, I just do it to make money."

END QUOTE ... so are we thinking about improving too much?
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I can imagine that's the same for a lot of people in different vocations. Take pilots who fly, for example, from Manchester to Bristol on a daily basis. That's just work, it's not really flying a plane anymore. Or a session musician who has to do the guitar part on some nasty pre-fab boy bands album. I make websites for a living and I'm not really that interested in making websites, I just do it for money. However, there's people out there who love making websites and get really into the whole community and spend all their waking hours doing it or reading about it.
 
Oh and regards the topic in hand. Absolutely starving. However there's a few obstacles in my way. I don't have the confidence to do street photography or even approach random passers by to get their portrait, even though I have a million project ideas in my head. And I don't have transport to get out much and do the kind of landscape photography I aspire to do.

Those are really pathetic obstacles though. I would love to do this **** for money, but I'm being realistic. I find myself having peaks and troughs with my photography.. one week I'm pretty much on it, the next week all my photos look like arse. I would like some consistency with my photography, preferably positive consistency than negative. In the mean time, I'm reading as much as I can, watching as many videos as I can and taking as many photos as I can. One day I'll be on it all the time.
 
Hi Gary Interesting question, I think with photography you can always improve on your subject matter, the most important thing is to photograph what you enjoy and have a passion for :). My passion is wildlife and landscape photography, even though I've been taking photos for 2 years (which isn't very long lol) sometimes I still make mistakes :lol: but I've realised if we didn't make mistakes we wouldn't improve, you learn from your mistakes :). I think doing photography workshops and reading photography magazines help you improve because on workshops you learn from other Photographers and sometimes you get new ideas from magazines :). My hunger is one day I'd love to have a book out on photography and maybe one day have my pictures in a calendar or on a greeting card in shops (I might be waiting for pigs to fly that to happen lol).

Natasha
 
lukewoodford said:
Its funny you should say that, the other day I had the most fustrating photos of my life. This one:


I can usually crop any photo a bit and be happy with it, this one however was a complete nightmare. I think it might be because he had two girls sitting next to him so I was extremely limited to compositions. This centre crop was the best I ended up with but it just doesn't look right, soooooo annoying and I think thats probably the first time I have really had a photo that I really wanted to work but just didn't. Even the processing I couldn't get to look right. But today ill go out and just try to do better, and when I do I will feel pround that I achieved something and overcome a slight knock.
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Actually, I've been messing about with this shot on and off all day and it's driven me daft too. It's very symmetrical and the background isn't helping, but if you remove the bg altogether to black, that doesn't work well either. I've tried to give the shot a bit more punch and tried to make a bit more of the eyes, but other than that I give up. Great character study though. :thumbs:

3552093469_d785def37b_o.jpg
 
I'm of the mind that pushing too hard to 'make it happen' can lead to frustration.

I'm also of the mind that a huge amount of being good is natural and can't be forced. My utter hopelessness with anything to do with landscapes shows this :D

Don't rush things, let them happen naturally and take any opportunity that comes your way. I can happily go a couple of weeks without shooting and it used to stress me out. Not any more, when it feels right, it feels right.
 
CT said:
Actually, I've been messing about with this shot on and off all day and it's driven me daft too. It's very symmetrical and the background isn't helping, but if you remove the bg altogether to black, that doesn't work well either. I've tried to give the shot a bit more punch and tried to make a bit more of the eyes, but other than that I give up. Great character study though. :thumbs:

3552093469_d785def37b_o.jpg
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Definately a wierd one and the centre crop was definately best. Oh well ill keep it but it won't be in my collection of top notch homeless images :(
 
lukewoodford said:
Gary you do have the skill, when I first joined the forums I thought you were a pro. Seeing the first few shots you posted you definately have a raw talent. Maybe your problem is realising it?
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Never a truer word said. I've been trying to tell him this since he's been on the bloody forum.

lukewoodford said:
Definately a wierd one and the centre crop was definately best. Oh well ill keep it but it won't be in my collection of top notch homeless images :(
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Meh, I might be weird but I think its great how it is. You couldn't do anything different so you got the best result you could with the situation at hand. Most people would'nt have bothered even trying. That's what marks you out as being a good photographer, the ability to get a shot when you see it.


From what I've read here, the problem seems to be a massive lack of security in peoples own abilities coupled with a certain amount of unacheivable goal setting.

One of the main reasons this forums exist is as a form of reality checking for people who can't or wont take a step back and look at their own work with a critical and detached point of view. You only have to look at the number of posts saying 'Does this work?' or 'Is this a good shot?' If you have to ask that question then you can pretty well be sure that it isn't. One of the major differences between a good photographer and a bad one is that the good one will know when the shot works and which shots to show people, which is the dross to edit out etc.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with posting stuff and asking how it could be done better, or 'There is something wrong with this shot, but I dont know what it is or how I can make it better'

Take time to sit back and look at your photos from a detached point of view, try and look at them with the eyes of somebody who has never seen your work before. Its not easy as you will be very emotionally attached to your images but you need to look at the bigger picture (pun intended)

I personaly dont like hero worship of any kind, I think it's unhealthy. You only have to look at the way we live our lives as a society to see the detrimental effect of it. What is to be gained from aspiring to be as good as Ansel adams or Colin Prior other than the inevitable dissapointment when your images dont match up with the imagined, intangible quality of excellence that your hero embodies? There is nothing wrong with working towards being a better photographer but just enjoy the process, dont fixate on the goal.

To simply be a photographer and to lose yourself in the joy of what you are doing is enough and from that all other thingswill come.

Oh, and good marketing helps as well.

Apologies for the rant.

Too much beer and merriment tonight!
 
So yeah, in answer to your question Gary, Not hungry at all. I just enjoy being a photographer and making nice images, its all I've ever done. If any success comes out of it then so be it, if not then I will be equally happy just being absorbed by what I do!
 
:clap: Great post gandhi :clap:


md:thumbs:
 
Cannae wait.

The first one who wusses out and gets a digital camera out first is cooking breakfast all week I reckon. Cant wait to see you again mate,will be epic, midge related times!
 
This is such a good thread and it raises some very good points and then in turn more questions.

I've always been a perfectionist with anything I do, and I always want to improve and be the best. At certain points in my career this has not necessarily been a good trait (it often meant long hours to hit deadlines as I thought my work was never good enough to use), but I now use my perfectionism to my advantage where I am always hungry to improve, or seek challenges so I constantly progress. I can't remember the last time I was completely happy with a shot, but that's because I'm looking at the minor flaws. To others it will be good enough (that's the bit I learnt after many late nights, and from the fact that friends now have some of my prints on their walls), but as I think a shot can alway be improved I will always move on try to raise my game and be my own harshest critic.

My photography turned from being a hobby to a serious obsession several years ago, and unfortunately since then my wife became very ill and photography gave me a great form of escape. I could go out and forget about all the hardship in life whilst on my little photo expeditions, but at the same time share my images with my wife who really looked forward to seeing that there was an outside world and it gave her hope about having a future. Through seeing my wife struggle day after day, I began to see things differently and now feel I have so much to tell the world through photography. And that's the area I'm now working on and hungry to develop - what I'm trying to say in my photography.

I think I have the nice compositions, streetscapes, landscaoes, photographic seeing eye sorted, and know how to use a camera. I now I want to be able to tell stories ! I have a huge number of projects I want to pursue and show the world, which now leads me to where I am, and that's considering studying for an MA to find time to take on these personal projects and bounce concepts and ideas off others who may be doing the same.

I'm very lucky in that I'm quite satisfied with my day job, which over the last few has changed slightly to include my photographic skills, so I'm not yet looking to change career and my major income from it. It would be a bonus (extra cash etc) , but I'm also really excited about how my photography will change over the next year or two as I see this part as the hard part, the part with the greatest challenge for me, and I'm so up for that.

Hungry - as someone else said I'm starving, but I'm also lucky there is room in my life for it to develop further !!!

Mark.
 
Jees, talk about a thread that makes you self-analyse!

I would love, love, love to pursue photography to a higher level, would I like to do it for a living? Yes. Do I think I have the talent? Nowhere near. I get the technical stuff, what I lack is the creative eye. I struggle to visualise what I'm trying to shoot and that, ultimately, results in pretty directionless efforts on my part. I don't find that I have particular ideas that I want to try out and time and again I have been out with other togs who are merrily snapping away whilst I spend my time looking for that killer shot when perhaps if I actually took some photographs I might find it!

I am also fiercely self-critical and post very few images because I tend to not post stuff that I don't believe has any photographic merit. Maybe this does me no favours, but I really don't want to post what I consider to be snapshots. My other problem is that I don't shoot nearly enough, I should be out with my camera practising as often as possible but I'm not - thats obviously something I can remedy though!

Finally, I look at the images taken by folks Like Petemc, Luke Woodford, Diego Garcia and a whole load of other members on here and realise that I just don't have that level of talent or creativity.

But that's not to say I'm not prepared to continue trying!
 
I in a way am quite happy with the photographer I am... I think to be honest everyone on here through reading and experimenting with their equipment should get to that stage... You are technically a good photographer...

The problem occurs on the personal level... some people are perfectionists... some simply just have the time to go and shoot...

My marque of improvement has been my hit rate more than any... when I first started nearly 90% of a 36 exp roll went straight in the bin... and to be honest that was costly and in a way that monetry loss as well as the want to be better forced improvement. Now I would say at least 90% of my shots are good... by that I mean the mass public would be happy if they had taken it... and what is missing the creative flair... which I think to some is natural... but for most of us is experimental... and that means taking more photos and in turn that means more time taking pictures.

I like everyone on here appart from the bachelors possibly have a constraint on my time... mainly due to my job and the need for spending time with my better half! Now i'm lucky... my fiancee is a TOG... and prob gives and understands my obsession with taking pics when I get the time more than most... but at the same time... she is not as into it as me... so inevetably I always feel I dont get enough time!

I firmly believe my photography would improve if I had more time... but possibly not because technically i'll get much better... it's more because I'll prob be in the right place at the right time more often... or i'd have the time to get myself there... I'd improve my eye through experimentation... so unless like a few you are naturally gifted... then time is always the one reason why you cant improve! It always boils down to time!... And it's not just the taking but the processing as well!
 
I also think even all the photography greats... are just those who where in the right place at the right time.... and I guess contriversially I could say.... of all the pictures they took... you tend to only ever see a few hundred... If I leave this earth and i've taken a few hundred great shots... then I could consider myself great too... ok... I may not have had them published and talked about but a great shot is a great shot... I'll be happy!
 
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