How do you prove ownership?

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Set_Nights

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This is a hypothetical quesion but how can you actually prove ownership of an image if more than one person has a copy of the full resolution? I saw someone mentioning that with RAW you can add copyright/ownership but is there any way with jpeg?
 
So if I steal your laptop or memory card with all your RAW files on.. does that prove they are mine?

Sorry but :)
 
I think theres some software that can add copyright but it doesn't stop people from removing it or adding their own.
 
I have my name, web address and phone number in the camera so every pic I take it auto writes into the exif at source.
 
neil_g said:
cant you add copyright info in the canon software so that it automatically adds it to the EXIF?
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admirable said:
I have my name, web address and phone number in the camera so every pic I take it auto writes into the exif at source.
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Interesting :), I didn't realise there was a feature for this... I shall investigate! It's not a huge issue for me at all at the moment but I just wondered how exactly proof of ownership was well... proved :p.
 
I'm assuming this more hypothetical than anything else so just interesting in that respect. Unless of course you have two dozen £10000 images to protect ;-)
 
tirc83 said:
I'm assuming this more hypothetical than anything else so just interesting in that respect. Unless of course you have two dozen £10000 images to protect ;-)
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I wish :p! I've never had any imagine theft problems (don't think anyone would want to nick them :lol:) but thought it would always be interesting to know for future reference.

BarryDawsib said:
OOOO, tricky one if you did get your PC nicked and raws gone.

Mind so long as you have the camera the pictures were taken on there would be some EXIF data relating to the cameras serial number.
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I see, so there is :).

Can anyone guide me on how to enter my name/details into the camera so that it comes off in the exif?
 
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You can do it in the EOS utility software that came with your camera. It's all in the manual.
 
Bottom line, you CANNOT prove ownership of an image beyond reasonable doubt.

Any and all information which is contained in the EXIF/IPTC data can be edited afterwards. This includes the photographer's name and the camera serial number.

Until recently, if you had taken the photo on a Canon 1D III or 1Ds III and you had the the RAW file, then you could use Canon's OSK-E3 security kit to prove that the RAW file had not been changed since it came out of the camera. It's still not proof of ownership because it says nothing about who pressed the shutter button. But even that has gone by the wayside now since OSK-E3 was (rather amusingly) hacked.
 
Shoot onto memory card, dowload to computer. Store memory card in a fireproof vault, in a bank. Any issues, you can refer to the origional media, date/time stamped, Exif stamped, and more importantly with every other shot taken at the same time. Have a solicitor present and file it as soon after taking the photos as possible, so that no one can accuse you of adding another image from someone else into the shot stream, and never open the vault again to prove you have not doctored the memory card at all. So, take a solicitor with you next time you shoot and have him accompany you and you memory card to a bank vault to keep the media safe so you can prove that there is no way you could add any shots to you memory card so would be unable to steal anyone elses image and so prove that copyright for all images on the memory card belongs to you.
;)
Might cost you a little in memory cards, but not as much as the solicitor and the bank would.....!
 
admirable said:
I have my name, web address and phone number in the camera so every pic I take it auto writes into the exif at source.
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Unfortunately a program like exiftool can remove ALL the exif data.

.
 
You can encrypt the data on your laptop so that if it is lost or stolen it is not accessible to anybody and the hard drive would have to be wiped before it can be used again , you can then use your back up to restore the lost data
 
Set_Nights said:
This is a hypothetical quesion but how can you actually prove ownership of an image if more than one person has a copy of the full resolution? I saw someone mentioning that with RAW you can add copyright/ownership but is there any way with jpeg?
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LR (and probably most other software*) will add the info into a JPEG in exactly the same way as adding to a raw file.

Would be interested to know if there's a way to add it in-camera on my D2x, as I can't find info in the manual. Would save hassle when supplying images SOOC.:)



*(don't know for sure about other software)
 
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lawrie29 said:
Shoot onto memory card, dowload to computer. Store memory card in a fireproof vault, in a bank. Any issues, you can refer to the origional media, date/time stamped, Exif stamped, and more importantly with every other shot taken at the same time. Have a solicitor present and file it as soon after taking the photos as possible, so that no one can accuse you of adding another image from someone else into the shot stream, and never open the vault again to prove you have not doctored the memory card at all. So, take a solicitor with you next time you shoot and have him accompany you and you memory card to a bank vault to keep the media safe so you can prove that there is no way you could add any shots to you memory card so would be unable to steal anyone elses image and so prove that copyright for all images on the memory card belongs to you.
;)
Might cost you a little in memory cards, but not as much as the solicitor and the bank would.....!
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Very ingenious, Lawrie! However, your scheme doesn't seem to provide for the possibility that someone might want to view the images... and if the images are never viewed, then disputes about ownership are unlikely to arise... :lol:

Trouble is, inserting the memory card into a card reader or computer could conceivably alter the data on it. (At least the solicitor would be unable to testify that this could not have happened.) So I think you need to build some wireless file transfer into your scheme. Then you can use the copies of the images which have been wirelessly transferred out of the camera, and the "originals" remain securely on the memory card and subject to the procedure you outlined.
 
I believe that copyright is a civil matter and that the evidence is on the balance of probability not beyond reasonable doubt.
In which case a raw file with exif intact copied to a dvd or something put in an envelope sign across the seal by a witness and posted to yourself and unopened should be enough to sway the balance of probability in your favour
 
StewartR said:
Very ingenious, Lawrie! However, your scheme doesn't seem to provide for the possibility that someone might want to view the images... and if the images are never viewed, then disputes about ownership are unlikely to arise... :lol:

Trouble is, inserting the memory card into a card reader or computer could conceivably alter the data on it. (At least the solicitor would be unable to testify that this could not have happened.) So I think you need to build some wireless file transfer into your scheme. Then you can use the copies of the images which have been wirelessly transferred out of the camera, and the "originals" remain securely on the memory card and subject to the procedure you outlined.
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You see, we are nearly ready to take the product to market!! But how do we stop someone hacking into the wireless signal, stealing the contents of the whole card and claiming all the photos for there own!!!!

We must try harder to create a foolproof system that we can market!
 
this is a weird thread... i spend most of my time telling people...

'what those pictures? you've got to be joking, they're not mine! Pfft, i'd be embarrassed to death if they were mine'.... :exit:
 
There is this new idea where you shoot onto a light sensitive film..........
......and then keep the negatives
lol
 
amtaylor said:
There is this new idea where you shoot onto a light sensitive film..........
......and then keep the negatives
lol
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How is that any different from shooting RAW and not releasing them? You have exactly the same problem if your negatives are stolen? Non :p?
 
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I suppose so but a laptop is something likely to be stolen as it could be taken out with you or a house burglar might take it as it is of intrinsic value. Negatives aren't and would only be stolen if it had something on them that would particularly be worth stealing in which case you would keep them locked up or insure them. Quite why I feel the need to argue the positives of negatives which I haven't used for years I don't know. Ha ha
 
Or if negatives where lost in a fire? 2 Togs could both then argue and neither produce the negs?
 
amtaylor said:
Shucks! Defeated.
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Haha!!! I will patent my system as the only way you can guarantee that you own copyright of an image and market it to the world!!!! (minus a small commision to StewartR for the wireless part) I will make a fortune and the world will be mine HA HA HA HA HA



Now, must go and by the missile silo I was looking at to make my Evil Lair in........
 
very interesting thread, how about secure online storage?
 
When setting up my D700 for the first time, I entered my details and they now get embedded into every picture's EXIF (which I know can be stripped out or editted). In addition, I have the file names set up to be my real initials followed by the camera given number.
 
I had a copyright dispute about 10 years ago with a clown who took one of my photographs off a website, cropped off my credit and claimed the photo was his.

What helped me was the fact that I didn't have any exif information on the photo - I asked his ISP to get him to confirm what type of camera was used, date and time the photograph was taken and camera settings. And to provide them with the RAW file and the photos that had been taken before and afer the one he used.

Needless to say, he couldn't and the photograph was removed.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
While the canon system is dead because the crypto's broken, Nikon do do a forensics suite... http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produ...ware/25738/Image-Authentication-Software.html

that proves the link between camera and raw file.
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I think this is one of the reasons why Police forensics departments use Nikon.


When I had someone use one of my image on Flickr without my consent I sent the original to Flickr as proof it was mine. They only had the 800 pixel copy. ;) Not that they could have contested it after admitting what they had done to me. :bonk:
 
If you are going to do a series of pictures you are particularly concernrd about, burn the high res set with EXIF to DVD, and this is the clever bit, post the DVD to yourself using recorded delivery. When it arrives, DO NOT OPEN IT. You now have a traceable time-stamped record of the pictures.
 
The 'poors man copyright' as it is known wouldn't work.

Basically you could send a resealable envelope to yourself unsealed and then seal it at a later date.

A lot of people used to do it with manuscripts but it won't stand up in a court.
 
if it's pre-emptive, you can of course register your copyright with a copyright witnessing service:
http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/register/

(nb that while this may appear to be a government service, it's not, it is however legit and a partner of the british library. More discussion here)
 
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