How could you light this?

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dancook

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Due to year group bubbles I will be taking a group photo one row at a time, until we have 300 children for me to merge in photoshop. The plan is to use the house flood lights, not currently on in this photo.

If I were to use off camera lighting, how would you light each row?

I don't have a pair of 20 foot stands to put either side.

A1100331-empty.jpg

all I have are standard light stands, 2 x AD600, a huge octobox, 2 x reflective umbrellas, 1 x shoot through
 
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mike weeks said:
What does it look like in the other direction?
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I took this photo at 28mm from the stage opposite, it's maybe 3 feet high. In between it's a good distances of floor space.

The ceiling is rigged with lights pointing at the stage, unfortunately we can't just turn them around :)
 
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There is a high up balcony on one side, on the left just out of shot - but nothing on the other side. It's got all the lighting tech in it.

Maybe i could do something here.. put both AD600 up and just blast it out - might struggle with space and direction with umbrellas, big octobox might not have wide enough throw. I suspect it's all black walled, could aim for the ceiling but might not make much impact (could always go try this out)
 
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mike weeks said:
You really don’t want to light from both dudes as you will have cross shadows

Better to twin up the 2 lights in the middle as high as you can get them

Standard reflectors might be the simplest

Americans do it differently https://pixnub.com/ez-team-builder/
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Every time I look up lighting large groups (30+), they have two lights either side - aimed at the opposite end of the group to even the light out.

Thanks, well as I can't get them to the middle - I could try aiming both lights at spot in the ceiling and using that as a giant softbox, though I have no idea if there's sufficient light output to do this.

I'll be shooting each row wide open, to merge with a long exposure all in focus empty seating shot
 
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dancook said:
Every time I look up lighting large groups (30+), they have two lights either side - aimed at the opposite end of the group to even the light out.

Thanks, well as I can't get them to the middle - I could try aiming both lights at spot in the ceiling and using that as a giant softbox, though I have no idea if there's sufficient light output to do this.

I'll be shooting each row wide open, to merge with a long exposure empty seating shot
Click to expand...

That is what I would try.
 
mike weeks said:
You really don’t want to light from both sides as you will have cross shadows

Better to twin up the 2 lights in the middle as high as you can get them

Standard reflectors might be the simplest

Americans do it differently https://pixnub.com/ez-team-builder/
Click to expand...
Agreed. In theory it's possible but in practice it isn't - the lights would need to be a very long way away, in a space that doesn't exist, to minimise the effects of the Inverse Square Law, and they would need an enormous level of power because of this.

Forget the existing lighting, just bounce your AD600's off the ceiling, and use standard reflectors for it. If possible, use something like this https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-7-standard-reflector-for-elitepro-2-superfast because it's far more efficient than the ones supplied by Godox
 
Garry Edwards said:
Agreed. In theory it's possible but in practice it isn't - the lights would need to be a very long way away, in a space that doesn't exist, to minimise the effects of the Inverse Square Law, and they would need an enormous level of power because of this.

Forget the existing lighting, just bounce your AD600's off the ceiling, and use standard reflectors for it. If possible, use something like this https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-7-standard-reflector-for-elitepro-2-superfast because it's far more efficient than the ones supplied by Godox
Click to expand...

After the last 12 months draught of covid I'm reluctant to spend any more money - but thanks for the tip off! I will at least give my standard reflectors a go, I can test them before the event.
 
dancook said:
After the last 12 months draught of covid I'm reluctant to spend any more money - but thanks for the tip off! I will at least give my standard reflectors a go, I can test them before the event.
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Fair enough, maybe you can beg, borrow or otherwise obtain:) You should be able to manage with just the crappy Godox-included reflectors, but they output far less light. As we all know, form should always follow function but these reflectors put small size, clean lines and elegance ahead of function.
 
f/2.8 said:
That is what I would try.
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Yes - bounce two lights off the ceiling. AD600 x2 should be fine though I would invest that small amount of money in efficient reflectors as Gary suggested. They'll come in handy again. Given that you're shooting them in rows and merging in PhotoShop, you can move the lights each time. Try to get some light on faces instead of just tops of heads. Maybe try just adding a speedlight direct from the front to lift shadows and put a sparkle in the eyes - test it, you might be surprised at the difference it makes.

I would also do some test shots to check for even exposure, light on faces, exposure at the back and sides etc. Get the camera as far back as possible and don't use anything shorter than standard focal length, check for edge sharpness.

Get those groups properly organised before you start. They won't all fit neatly in rows and I also note that there are not enough seats for 300 children. Get that sorted, and prepare for a few more/less kids to attend on the day. Draw up a plan and tick off the seats as you go. Be strict with the teachers/organisers - no last minute changes.

Just a thought - if the groups were arranged in blocks rather than horizontal rows you'd have more options but forget about studio quality lighting here (nobody will notice or care anyway) unless you want to shoot them one at a time ;)

ps Let us know how you get on
 
Garry Edwards said:
Fair enough, maybe you can beg, borrow or otherwise obtain:) You should be able to manage with just the crappy Godox-included reflectors, but they output far less light. As we all know, form should always follow function but these reflectors put small size, clean lines and elegance ahead of function.
Click to expand...

HoppyUK said:
Yes - bounce two lights off the ceiling. AD600 x2 should be fine though I would invest that small amount of money in efficient reflectors as Gary suggested.
Click to expand...

Twisted my arm, i have put an order in!
 
HoppyUK said:
Get those groups properly organised before you start. They won't all fit neatly in rows and I also note that there are not enough seats for 300 children. Get that sorted, and prepare for a few more/less kids to attend on the day. Draw up a plan and tick off the seats as you go. Be strict with the teachers/organisers - no last minute changes.

Just a thought - if the groups were arranged in blocks rather than horizontal rows you'd have more options but forget about studio quality lighting here (nobody will notice or care anyway) unless you want to shoot them one at a time ;)

ps Let us know how you get on
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Students will all be stood, with class teachers on each end.

Any tall students will be moved towards the ends.

Worst case I will just photoshop their torsos around :) but hopefully we can avoid that with our planning.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Fair enough, maybe you can beg, borrow or otherwise obtain:) You should be able to manage with just the crappy Godox-included reflectors, but they output far less light. As we all know, form should always follow function but these reflectors put small size, clean lines and elegance ahead of function.
Click to expand...

Just to confirm you know I’ve got this one?

www.essentialphoto.co.uk

Light Modifiers 55° Reflector and 4x Honeycomb Grids For LUMI/QS/QT/GS

This PixaPro Photo Light Modifiers Bundle comes with a 55° standard reflector and four honeycomb grids for Lumi, Kino, and Storm II.
www.essentialphoto.co.uk www.essentialphoto.co.uk

And the one you posted is more efficient, I will have to fire them side by side when it arrives to see how they compare
 
dancook said:
Just to confirm you know I’ve got this one?

www.essentialphoto.co.uk

Light Modifiers 55° Reflector and 4x Honeycomb Grids For LUMI/QS/QT/GS

This PixaPro Photo Light Modifiers Bundle comes with a 55° standard reflector and four honeycomb grids for Lumi, Kino, and Storm II.
www.essentialphoto.co.uk www.essentialphoto.co.uk

And the one you posted is more efficient, I will have to fire them side by side when it arrives to see how they compare
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They appear to me to be similar, but I really can't tell because of the angle of the photo. What matters is that it should deliver about twice as much light as the supplied reflector.
 
Garry Edwards said:
They appear to me to be similar, but I really can't tell because of the angle of the photo. What matters is that it should deliver about twice as much light as the supplied reflector.
Click to expand...

this is the product you only get a plastic cap to protect it, I ordered reflectors separate

Maybe I should have not been so hasty to spend

27F266D6-5082-4608-A8E1-FF68FCAD6126.png
 
I think that other suppliers include the reflector in the price, but at least you've ended up with reflectors.

It will make this upcoming job much easier
 
ISO 400 f2.8 1/200th No Strobe versus ISO 400 f4 1/125th 2 x AD600 fired up (from either side) + forward facing on camera flash.

:D we have sufficient light

also 35mm be as good as I can do from as far back as I can go.

I probably won't bother moving the lights, just dodge a bit in photoshop if necessary to even the lighting.

I cancelled the lencarta reflectors as well, I think i'll cope with the standard pixapro ones.

A1201816.jpgA1201820.jpg
 
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Looks like your prep has paid off.

Thanks for posting the journey.

Good luck on the day.

Gaz
 
I note the double shadows as well, I wonder if I can overcome that considering the pitched roof, and if I lit just one side it may be less even - I have some time in the morning to faff with this.

ah most of it will be photoshopped out anyway!
 
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Just some comments Dan.

Exposure is high in the centre, maybe one stop. Where are you pointing the lights? Have you tried firing them across each other to the opposite side of the roof, or maybe both from the centre? I think you'll probably get a decent result with what you've done, with a bit of 'shopping, but if you can get it more even and reduce the double shadows, so much the better. Light on the faces is what matters, but we can't see that from your test.

Also, can you move the camera back? Currently the faces at the front are going to be twice the size of those at the back and getting a bit more distance with a longer lens would reduce that. A higher viewpoint might be better too.

Good luck :cool:
 
HoppyUK said:
Just some comments Dan.

Exposure is high in the centre, maybe one stop. Where are you pointing the lights? Have you tried firing them across each other to the opposite side of the roof, or maybe both from the centre? I think you'll probably get a decent result with what you've done, with a bit of 'shopping, but if you can get it more even and reduce the double shadows, so much the better. Light on the faces is what matters, but we can't see that from your test.

Also, can you move the camera back? Currently the faces at the front are going to be twice the size of those at the back and getting a bit more distance with a longer lens would reduce that. A higher viewpoint might be better too.

Good luck :cool:
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Can’t move the camera any further back, it can go a foot higher perhaps when on a tripod. I was at the back of the raised stage for the photo above.

I could always see if I can get some tables setup to stand on.

I will test it more when I get a body to test it with, I’ll have 30 minute setup in the morning.
 
I hate taking photos in spaces like that, there is always s***e everywhere, stuff on walls, bashes and biffed parts.with the best will in the world, there is only so much you can do to make it beautiful !
 
cuthbert said:
I hate taking photos in spaces like that, there is always s***e everywhere, stuff on walls, bashes and biffed parts.with the best will in the world, there is only so much you can do to make it beautiful !
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The biggest issue is there are 10 groups (covid bubbles) of 30 students, and they need to be apart from each other.

So we could photograph them outside from above, but how would we merge them all together as though 300 were there at once.

This location was chosen because it can be organised into rows, I can photoshop the walls, vents. what is left is just a sea of faces.

It’s a shame we can’t just wait for covid restrictions to end, but the head teacher is leaving and the point is to have photo of them with the whole school
 
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@HoppyUK

Oh and to answer where did I point them? they are pointed upwards (from the sides), see the top left/right corner of the photos where it overexposes - that's pretty much where.

and this is the result with a subject

A1201819.jpg
 
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HoppyUK said:
Also, can you move the camera back? Currently the faces at the front are going to be twice the size of those at the back and getting a bit more distance with a longer lens would reduce that.

Good luck :cool:
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And I think that this is the last remaining challenge, the venue/setup just doesn't allow enough shooting space. Having said that, you do have the "distort" option in PS, which will be a big help with the final (flattened) image.
Other than that, the venue is far from ideal and the Covid restrictions are turning a very simple shoot into a complex one, but that's their problem, not yours (because they're paying for it). The reality is that, with 300 people in the shot, nobody is going to notice minor technical imperfections.
 
dancook said:
@HoppyUK

Oh and to answer where did I point them? they are pointed upwards (from the sides), see the top left/right corner of the photos where it overexposes - that's pretty much where.

and this is the result with a subject

View attachment 323339
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That's actually not at all bad Dan :cool: (y)

If you have time on your hands (haha!) you might try some different positions and angles with the lights to see what happens with exposure and evenness and shadows. Trying to calculate 'angle of incidence equals angle of reflectance' can only get you so far in a place like this, and nobody will notice or care apart from us on TP but it's all good experience and knowledge.

Rather more important is to put all the technical stuff behind you and concentrate on the (slightly scary) logistical side and the important business of making everyone look good - especially the headteacher :police:

Good luck chap :snaphappy:
 
HoppyUK said:
That's actually not at all bad Dan :cool: (y)

If you have time on your hands (haha!) you might try some different positions and angles with the lights to see what happens with exposure and evenness and shadows. Trying to calculate 'angle of incidence equals angle of reflectance' can only get you so far in a place like this, and nobody will notice or care apart from us on TP but it's all good experience and knowledge.

Rather more important is to put all the technical stuff behind you and concentrate on the (slightly scary) logistical side and the important business of making everyone look good - especially the headteacher :police:

Good luck chap :snaphappy:
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Thanks!

I've got my ipad on remote shooting with auto download 2MB jpgs image for reviewing,

I'll set the tripod up on a table on the stage to get it higher, and I've asked for a step ladder if health and safety will allow.

We have three hours to photograph 10 groups, then I need to photograph a sports day until 4pm and have both the group shot and sports day images processed before sleep so they can go to print Thursday! So my day will by 8:30am until about midnight..

and on Thursday I can rest :)
 
Looking good, classic example of "time spent in recon is seldom wasted". And relax, you are the only one who will notice the detail, the parents and kids simply won't notice!
 
Camera on tripod on top of table, on top of stage - 35mm gm prime for optimum quality

ipad for convenience of remote shooting

just got to process the images now!

212524648_10165777029705227_6988356590587988598_n.jpg
 
Well done Dan having seen the final image considering all the obstacles it looks great am sure your client will be very happy.
 
f/2.8 said:
Well done Dan having seen the final image considering all the obstacles it looks great am sure your client will be very happy.
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Thanks! I should be in bed but I've overtired this morning, and a little too excited :D
 
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