How can I achieve this look?

DemiLion said:
Bailey, Hockney, Hepworth and several other of Britain's best artists would fundamentally disagree with most of what you've said there, and that's just one generation!

Cracking images LJ.
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What:shrug:

All i basically said was that being over sensitive to other peoples views as an artist can lead to stress and grief, and that its just better to concentrate on the art rather than the thoughts of the viewers. How would a whole generation of artists disagree with that?
 
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To be a great artist requires supreme self confidence and more to the point a wocking great ego.

If I had a quarter of the talent that LJ does and had put that much effort into developing a style and technique that made my work stand out, I'd be damned if I'd want someone just dismissing my work as a copy of another photographer's style.

None of the artists that I listed were shy at taking critics to task if they disagreed with their assessment and were pretty quick to jump down people's throats to defend their own work.

That is what is required to make a name in your own lifetime, rather than be accidentally discovered after your death and be though of as a good egg. Not to mention a bucket load of good fortune to boot!

If you don't value your work enough to a) discover who is looking at it and b) find out what they are saying about it, then you are just a bod with a camera clicking the shutter. If you don't rate your work enough to defend it and explain it, then why should anyone else?

What other reason do you think that we all post images for others to look at? In all but a very few cases an artist thrives on feedback, whether that's in an attempt to improve or merely seeking some kind of recognition.

I think that LJ was absolutely right in not wanting to be passed off as a Dragan copiest, and the quality of his work certainly justifies his reaction.
 
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Adrian, the question was how is the look achieved. I answered the best way I knew how. It comes from the emotion. It's that simple. I can't do a thing with an image without it. It initiates and defines everything I produce. I try to build on it both visually and in metaphor. The darkness and light in the praying image for example is there for a reason. It has meaning if the viewer is willing to explore with that amount of depth. You will find the same true for most of what I do.

You can go draganise an image to death but that won't necessarily produce something memorable. It wouldn't help the OP get the "look". That is the point IMHO. Artistry is an emotional state of mind and I get there through the interaction and genuine moments with my subjects. True, you have to really "know" your software. There is no simple fix for that other than grind and experimentation, but without that spark of emotion your images will remain ordinary.

I wish I knew who the OP was. The doubt that still remains in some of your minds that I started this thread is mortifying.
 
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DemiLion said:
To be a great artist requires supreme self confidence and more to the point a wocking great ego.

Grand generational, but you seem to know artists so......

If I had a quarter of the talent that LJ does and had put that much effort into developing a style and technique that made my work stand out, I'd be damned if I'd want someone just dismissing my work as a copy of another photographer's style.

Nobody said that

None of the artists that I listed were shy at taking critics to task if they disagreed with their assessment and were pretty quick to jump down people's throats to defend their own work.

If i ever post any stuff again, i'll make sure to jump down people throats if their assessment contradicts mine.

That is what is required to make a name in your own lifetime, rather than be accidentally discovered after your death and be though of as a good egg. Not to mention a bucket load of good fortune to boot!


If you don't value your work enough to a) discover who is looking at it and b) find out what they are saying about it, then you are just a bod with a camera clicking the shutter. If you don't rate your work enough to defend it and explain it, then why should anyone else?

Loaded with an assumption, I didnt realise it was about whether you valued your own work or not. Does it mean i dont then?

What other reason do you think that we all post images for others to look at? In all but a very few cases an artist thrives on feedback, whether that's in an attempt to improve or merely seeking some kind of recognition.

What other reason do you think i could possibly give? Its fairly obvious to everyone why people photo share,

I think that LJ was absolutely right in not wanting to be passed off as a Dragan copiest, and the quality of his work certainly justifies his reaction

Again, no one said he was a Dragan copiest,
.
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See my experience of art is more within the music industry. Musicians always talk about not getting bogged down in the politics surrounding their work, or trying not to get upset when people miss-classify their genre, or miss interpret their lyrics. I.E its all about the music, and we've all heard that line havnt we?
 
LJ. said:
Adrian, the question was how is the look achieved. I answered the best way I knew how. It comes from the emotion. It's that simple. I can't do a thing with an image without it. It initiates and defines everything I produce. I try to build on it both visually and in metaphor. The darkness and light in the praying image for example is there for a reason. It has meaning if the viewer is willing to explore with that amount of depth. You will find the same true for most of what I do.

You can go draganise an image to death but that won't necessarily produce something memorable. It wouldn't help the OP get the "look". That is the point IMHO. Artistry is an emotional state of mind and I get there through the interaction and genuine moments with my subjects. True, you have to really "know" your software. There is no simple fix for that other than grind and experimentation, but without that spark of emotion your images will remain ordinary.

I wish I knew who the OP was. The doubt that still remains in some of your minds that I started this thread is mortifying.
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I understand all that LJ honestly i do, im not trying to refute that point, only draw a slighly different point to the discussion. I felt you were a bit put out by what was said (i.e the dragan thing) so i though i would try and make you feel less worked up about it, buy saying how fickle the human parlance can be sometimes. Y'know people say things because its convenient and it doesn't quite respect the artists sensibilities. But this is gonna happen with people LJ, this is how the world works. The artist pains and struggles and searches their sole and goes through all that other stuff, but the average joes might not necessarily be sensitive to this, and will say lazy, throw away, soundbites. Its the nature of the world we live in, and in my opinion it is healthier to concentrate more on your art, rather than getting bogged down in semantics and politics.

It seems sensible to me, im not trying to make any grand statement here. Maybe im having trouble expressing myself, but i was trying to put your mind at ease.

Sorry if yet again i've upset people, i dont know whats happened to me since joining this site, but suddenly all my opinions are wrong and its turns out all that wisdom i though i had is just static charge.
 
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LJ. said:
Adrian, the question was how is the look achieved. I answered the best way I knew how. It comes from the emotion. It's that simple. I can't do a thing with an image without it. It initiates and defines everything I produce. I try to build on it both visually and in metaphor. The darkness and light in the praying image for example is there for a reason. It has meaning if the viewer is willing to explore with that amount of depth. You will find the same true for most of what I do.

You can go draganise an image to death but that won't necessarily produce something memorable. It wouldn't help the OP get the "look". That is the point IMHO. Artistry is an emotional state of mind and I get there through the interaction and genuine moments with my subjects. True, you have to really "know" your software. There is no simple fix for that other than grind and experimentation, but without that spark of emotion your images will remain ordinary.

I wish I knew who the OP was. The doubt that still remains in some of your minds that I started this thread is mortifying.
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From what you have said about different blend modes, textures, and dodging and burning it sounds a lot like the dragan process. Why not tell us what you did do to one of your images, rather than talking about the emotion behind it. It's nice to know your emotive about your work, but thats not very helpfull to the OP who asked how it was done.
 
Fantastic photo stream. Would be interesting to see some of the original images for comparision (I'm not trying to open a can-o-worms, I'm just interested).
 
Adey said:
Sorry if yet again i've upset people, i dont know whats happened to me since joining this site, but suddenly all my opinions are wrong and its turns out all that wisdom i though i had is just static charge.
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Adey, I'm not having a pop at you. I'm just putting across a different point of view!

It's all just chewing the fat so to speak! :D
 
I think having developed a processing technique it can sometimes be a little annoying when others assume you have borrowed a known process. The end result might be similar but the route to get there may be very different.
 
AndyB said:
I think having developed a processing technique it can sometimes be a little annoying when others assume you have borrowed a known process. The end result might be similar but the route to get there may be very different.
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Hard to tell with the information we are getting.
 
However we got here, i've seen some great shots on LJ's stream. The witch of portebello rd is standout... :)
 
swanseamale47 said:
Hard to tell with the information we are getting.
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why does it matter? if you want the end effect and think you can achieve it by dragan then go for it (there are plenty of tutorials around to help you with this). I think LJ is taking a perfectly reasonable stance in creating unique images and protecting his process to achieve that. Alternatively you could reject his claim of how he engages with his images which would make you a bit of a philistine IMO.
 
BazEP said:
why does it matter? if you want the end effect and think you can achieve it by dragan then go for it (there are plenty of tutorials around to help you with this). I think LJ is taking a perfectly reasonable stance in creating unique images and protecting his process to achieve that. Alternatively you could reject his claim of how he engages with his images which would make you a bit of a philistine IMO.
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The reason for this thread was the OP asking how it was done, lostjordon took the trouble of coming here to inform us it wasn't the dragan process, but couldn't be bothered to enlighten the OP as to how it was done.
This whole thread has been very courious IMHO. Personally I don't like the effect but dragan discribes it well enough in my book.
To answer your quiestion why does it matter to you that I ask?
 
Some amazing work there.:clap:
 
swanseamale47 said:
The reason for this thread was the OP asking how it was done, lostjordon took the trouble of coming here to inform us it wasn't the dragan process, but couldn't be bothered to enlighten the OP as to how it was done.
This whole thread has been very courious IMHO. Personally I don't like the effect but dragan discribes it well enough in my book.
To answer your quiestion why does it matter to you that I ask?
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it's curious because we're going down two paths and some people are trying to reconcile them. One being process, the other being "art". Why does it matter to me that you ask? it only matters in the context of defending a clearly very talented newcomer to the forum against the philistinism of some on here.
 
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Amazing work.
 
BazEP said:
it's curious because we're going down two paths and some people are trying to reconcile them. One being process, the other being "art". Why does it matter to me that you ask? it only matters in the context of defending a clearly very talented newcomer to the forum against the philistinism of some on here.
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So asking how he does it makes me a Philistine? I think your taking this all too seriously.
 
it wasn't the onetime "how do yo do that". it was the "this is how you did it, it's the same" when the person is saying it isn't. and others have suggested they take themselves too seriously due to the emotional engagement with what they're doing. If that's not philistinism then I'm not sure what is.

don't worry, I'm not taking this too seriously. but if I was the chap (or chapess) I'd be a bit pee'd off tbh
 
BazEP said:
it wasn't the onetime "how do yo do that". it was the "this is how you did it, it's the same" when the person is saying it isn't. and others have suggested they take themselves too seriously due to the emotional engagement with what they're doing. If that's not philistinism then I'm not sure what is.

don't worry, I'm not taking this too seriously. but if I was the chap (or chapess) I'd be a bit pee'd off tbh
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I haven't said how it's done, I said it's similar to Dragan from we have been told (both involve various blend modes and buring/dodging) but we can't really tell if it's the same or not untill we are told the process properly.

I'll try not to let LJ being "pee'd off" worry me too much, but thanks for your concern.
 
People, LJ isnt gonna be posting on this thread again. Unless someone can give some technical info on the techniques used (not that acquiring such knowledge would allow us to create the same finished product) then i dont know what the point of this thread is.

No-one is a here is a philistine, i think there is just crossed wires. Obviously everyone could use the same techniques and we'd all end up with something completely different, learning LJ's PP techniques wont allow us to get the same look, and we wouldnt want to ultimately. We'd use the skills learnt to discover our own style, and we know no single process is gonna be a quick fix to something interesting and compelling.

I really dont see conflicting arguments here, more like two different viewpoints getting mixed up.

Peace all, :D

Ade
 
the way i see it (from reading this thread and the obvious) is the OP and the other one is the same person and perhaps posting this thread as an advert for his work...

but i don't really care - that's just my thought. i shan't be visiting this thread again after this as i didn't really learn much and just wasted 6 mins going thru the posts...
 
i second that the op and the poster are the same person, just changed their ip address to post
 
LJ. said:
For whatever reason, the OP seems to have thrown me under a train. I offer you all my sincere apologies that they have you second guessing my sincerity.
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If you want to be sincere tell us why you deleted the photo linked in the original post and why you never answered the OP's question.
 
The image was of a lady I met in a nursing home. I have been struggling trying to produce something I was happy with and the attention the colour image had on this thread prompted me to go back to the archives and try again. I posted the result of that on my stream just recently. 1st page, 2nd one down. I delete images frequently so no real news there. I felt the current version more worthy of the portfolio. More worthy of Kathleen...the subject in question.

I have answered the question as best I can. I process with emotion and have put forward that as my reply. God knows how I get to where I get. There is no "process". I take what I have "in frame" and do the best I can. The fact you don't like the answer Wayne, and have nothing technical to hang a hat on, I can only apologise to you for again.

The best advice I can give any one of you who wants to improve their own photography is to capture something you truly feel. Put some of yourself into the image and you might be surprised what you come up with.

Thanks to you all. Sincerely.
 
guys, the 2 users have totally different IP locations, even if he logged in at work, then went home, hed have to bloody fly to get there..so please, stop with the****stirring as its starting to annoy me now. When you can see what I can see then you would understand. Take my word for it, ITS A DIFFERENT PERSON!!!!!
 
matty said:
guys, the 2 users have totally different IP locations, even if he logged in at work, then went home, hed have to bloody fly to get there..so please, stop with the****stirring as its starting to annoy me now. When you can see what I can see then you would understand. Take my word for it, ITS A DIFFERENT PERSON!!!!!
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Look, I'm in the UK
 
matty said:
guys, the 2 users have totally different IP locations, even if he logged in at work, then went home, hed have to bloody fly to get there..so please, stop with the****stirring as its starting to annoy me now. When you can see what I can see then you would understand. Take my word for it, ITS A DIFFERENT PERSON!!!!!
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Look, I'm in Canada.

:)
 
What an interesting thread, is he or isnt he, hey its easy enough to spoof IP addresses so using that as defence is not relevant.

Was that the point of the thread, I dont think so and if I had just read the initial posting my reaction would be to say 'go and look at Dragan'.

As for processing with emotion, thats b******s as he most likely used photoshop. Yes you hardly ever use the same process entirely but we all develop sets of techniques that we apply selectively. Now if he had said that he was processing to generate an emotive reaction, that I could understand. So the question is, is this art, skillful processing or both?

Mike
 
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