How big is a truck blind spot?

digitalfailure said:
If the video had shown the view from the mirror mounted on top of the door facing down, at least 6 of the cyclists would have been in clear view.
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Not sure what you mean their DF.

All this threads criticism aside, I really don't think they have to manipulate anything beyond fact to get the point across.
 
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That unit and pretty much all trucks of a certain size now have a convex mirror mounted above the passenger side door which looks downward to the floor and is of a very wide angle, to enable the driver to see the area where most of the cyclists are. The video chooses to ignore the view from it. A mirror mounted above the windscreen is also a requirement now to enable the driver to see what's directly in front and below.

As a cyclist I'm all for education for exactly where it's safe to be when in the vicinity of large vehicles, but that video does make some exagarations to get the point across.
 
Ah I gotcha I can't see that mirror you mention this unit has, but ok I know what you mean. But putting modern requirements aside though, many trucks have just the pair set each side, and even earlier trucks have just the one mirror either side.

Those magnifying lens things (seen on the back of caravan windows) are good as well I hear.

So even if we have proved this video has some subjective exaggerations under scrutiny, we've also got to consider that real life conditions are likely to be confusing and even harder to analyse for all parties involved, and even if the truck has got the best mirrors ever, their is still a massive blind spot. So I'd argue. as a general guide, this video is honest and accurate enough to convey the problem.
 
In the opening frames of the video, look above the frame for the drop glass, you get a glimpse of the mirror at the top of the shot. And you'll also see it again as the camera pans around. That truck is vintage now ( it's a V plate :D ) and mirrors have only got better over the years.

Tbh, I'd like to see all cyclists trained at school age again then they could be taught all about the dangers of large vehicles and riding through red lights :bang:
 
well im back into work monday ,and i think i might just have time to arz about ,,i might try and get our driving assessor to show me the blind spot ,,,,report to follow
 
donut said:
sorry to be the one , but that is a load of tosh ,,,,for a start all the mirrors seem to be set up wrong ,and they didnt even show the top mirror ,,,if they are all set up right there isnt a blind spot ,,,,
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This
 
I think i will sell the bike and buy the Truck lol

Rob.
 
lol, Swapses

is the bike lalique? ;)

digitalfailure said:
In the opening frames of the video, look above the frame for the drop glass, you get a glimpse of the mirror at the top of the shot. And you'll also see it again as the camera pans around. That truck is vintage now ( it's a V plate :D ) and mirrors have only got better over the years.

Tbh, I'd like to see all cyclists trained at school age again then they could be taught all about the dangers of large vehicles and riding through red lights :bang:
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I second that.

Vintage v plate, lol ... classic insurance soon too. ;)


donut said:
well im back into work monday ,and i think i might just have time to arz about ,,i might try and get our driving assessor to show me the blind spot ,,,,report to follow
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Good idea, Ask him to get the chalk out and mark some lines down maybe, see how bad it is.
 
Steve Smith said:
No need. They are usually fitted with competent drivers. It's the cars which need additional safety features to make up for their drivers' shortcomings.


Steve.
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O dear - Usually ? You mean occasionally / bordering on seldom......Just my experience in over 30 yrs of driving
 
Perhaps every cyclist and motorist should sit in a truck cab and have blind spots demonstrated to them? Driving an HGV in a simulator would also be a good idea too.
 
digitalfailure said:
Tbh, I'd like to see all cyclists trained at school age again then they could be taught all about the dangers of large vehicles and riding through red lights :bang:
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Snip quoted to :plusone:!

Yesterday, while being driven through town, we were stopped at temporary lights (for roadworks) when a psycholist passed us, hands in pockets and sailed through the narrow part in front of a truck coming the other way. The truck slammed on and the tw@ on the bike managed to get his hands back on the bars just before he went into the front of the truck. Apart from the traffic chaos that would have ensued, it's a shame he didn't Darwinise himself.
 
LASTOLITE said:
O dear - Usually ? You mean occasionally / bordering on seldom......Just my experience in over 30 yrs of driving
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I most definitely mean usually. If you have a specialist licence, you usually have a specialist level of competence. It's more likely car drivers who get worse as time goes on.


Steve.
 
It's unfortunate that in almost everything, the vast majority are tarred with the same brush as the very small incompetent minority.


Steve.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
I tend to find I have more experience than most so I'm surprised you think this. Heavy haulers tend to be some of the best drivers on the road in general I think.
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I would like to think the way you do - but as I see it large articulated vehicles being driven by people who are less conscientious maybe? once the test is passed. There is a lot more pressure on these drivers to deliver on time and this shows in just how willing they are to trundle through red lights...

A few stats http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/media/21-10-2013-lorry-fatalities-research


I know its just stats but there are other data sources that depict similar results......
 
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This is the sort of generalisation which makes every teenager a troublemaking thug who sprays graffiti on walls, makes every foreigner a criminal and every unemployed person a workshy scrounger.

In all cases, and the case you cite, it is not true. We generally get inaccurate perceptions of any group of people from the small minority which we hear about - and due to the way the media works on sensationalising things, you only get to hear about the negatives relating to this very small minority and apply them to a group as a whole.


Steve.
 
well here's the blind spot from the truck i was in today ( not ) if i mention 90 degrees ignore it



 
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Great video and well done for taking the time to do it :thumbs:

The old truck predates the requirement to have the mirror above the screen, and as I said the original video cleverly chose to ignore the view from the downward facing mirror above the door.
 
DorsetDude said:
:geek: Over the top. About arm wrestling I think it was.
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That was it.

donut said:
well here's the blind spot from the truck i was in today ( not ) if i mention 90 degrees ignore it
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Excellent. Are you going to send a link to the owners of the original video?

phil8139 said:
1. Wrong. There can be huge blind spots when the cab to trailer angle adjusts. Those blind spots happen on BOTH sides of the vehicle.

2. Wrong. The position of the truck in this video is normal for the manoeuvre intended, as the driver can't see the rear of the trailer anything that 'sneaks up' the inside is invisible. Cars do this often then get stroppy when the tarmac runs out
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Steve Smith said:
As I have only driven rigids (and an articulated once) and never got round to converting my provisional class C licence to a full licence, I will bow to Phil's superior knowledge.
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Although Mr Donut's* video seems to disprove Phil's responses to the two points I made (I didn't comment on the positioning).

(* if that's his real name).


Steve.
 
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Well done Donut for taking the time to do that vid.

Let's hope all the other road users can distinguish between the new and old style mirrors ;)

Phil.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Heavy haulers tend to be some of the best drivers on the road in general I think.
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Best in the ability to steer with elbows while texting? I am dredding the journey to Newcastle and back this week with my wife commenting on the lack of concentration on the lorry drivers we pass. Winds her up to chronic levels!!!
 
I think my 'mates' in here, like Adam and Andy, are well aware from previous rants about my general ire with cyclists and their apparent lack of awareness however I want to add something to what Steve has just said with that article and actually comes from the late pa-in-law, for drivers [of any 4 wheeled contraption], take those bloody dolly danglers off your rear view mirrors, please!! That article explains how vision works, how little detail can be collected by peripheral vision and what saccade is.... so there you are sitting at a junction and whilst you are looking around a cyclist [or indeed pedestrian] appears off to one side, your Magic Tree/Cute Teddy is not only possibly obscuring the view, but the movement of pedestrian/cyclist could easily be mistaken by the brain for that swinging monstrosity and ergo not registered immediately as something to be aware of. Yes, it might only be a a moment, but that can be all the time that is needed to cock things up rather too well.
 
Amazed at your video, donut, never imagined you would get that image at such an acute angle, I was wrong but nice to learn something new everyday.
 
Makes me wonder if part of the solution might be if you want to drive an artic* in London it has to be left hand drive?

*or whatever large vehicles are part of the problem and assuming cyclists are being killed on the nearside of these vehicles.
 
Or, if you're a cyclist, be aware that every lorry IS trying to kill you, as are taxis, cars and other cyclists. Be extremely aware of your vulnerability and avoid putting yourself in harm's way. It would be lovely if every road user was 100% aware 100% of the time but in real life this simply isn't the case. Expect the worst and drive/ride (and even walk!) accordingly.
 
In aircraft accident investigation (probably other areas of risk management too) they sometimes refer to the Swiss Cheese model i.e. there are nearly always a series of events that result in the "holes" being aligned and the accident occurring. In the case of the recent London cyclists' deaths I don't know the exact cause of those accidents but it is very likely to be more than one factor. Putting the onus or blame on just one category of road user won't solve the problem.
 
Nod said:
Or, if you're a cyclist, be aware that every lorry IS trying to kill you, as are taxis, cars and other cyclists. Be extremely aware of your vulnerability and avoid putting yourself in harm's way. It would be lovely if every road user was 100% aware 100% of the time but in real life this simply isn't the case. Expect the worst and drive/ride (and even walk!) accordingly.
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i think this sums it up nicely ,,
 
i believe one of the deaths in London involved a tipper ( turning left ) ,,,,which for those that don't know is a rigid vehicle not an articulated one ( yes i know you can get bulk tipper artics )
 
Yv said:
, and it was don't ever ride your bicycle up the inside of a large vehicle at a junction and don't ride up the inside of a car indicating to turn left and even if it isn't indicating, be aware that it might anyway.
.
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Had a cyclist try this whilst I was riding my horse the other day! yes the idiot attempted to ride up the inside of the horse whilst on a clear country lane - no other traffic around. We stopped out of sheer surprise he then rode into the horse "because he couldn't unlcip in time". Thankfully the horse was an absolute saint and didn't kick out. When "politely" questioned on whether he had a death wish his answer was we shouldn't have stopped!!?? having been a cyclist, a car driver, horsebox driver and horse rider I try to see everybody's point of view but a few cyclists do seem to think they have right of way over everybody! I'm now going to duck as no doubt the horses on roads argument will start :exit:
:)
 
donut said:
well here's the blind spot from the truck i was in today ( not ) if i mention 90 degrees ignore it



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Nice video Andy, So your blind spot is 14 feet away then? ...which is pretty impressive coverage you're so right. :thumbs:

I think its important to point out to cyclists that although some drivers might have good well adjusted mirrors,(and added mirrors of differing qualities, some are not great) .. many will also not have them added at all. But in real life its not quite so easy to utilise all four mirrors in with the same finesse as is possible in Andy's video.
In real life people/cyclist are not always/often dressed in florescent jackets.
Dark evenings and rain, condensation, road dirt splatter and bright low sunlight all go into messing up the vision from those mirrors.
Not forgetting the speed of drivers and cyclists can still outwit even the most capable driver because he/she can't be looking into those mirrors all of the time...especially in bigger trucks where there's a whole heap of other angles and sizes to check, all of the time.
Plus that stuff Yvonne and Steve pointed out a few post back .... its hectic out their, don't put trust into people seeing you, in fact assume they haven't.

Plus plus, drivers don't all have such good zoom vision as Andy. ;)
 
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Dale_tem said:
Best in the ability to steer with elbows while texting? I am dredding the journey to Newcastle and back this week with my wife commenting on the lack of concentration on the lorry drivers we pass. Winds her up to chronic levels!!!
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May I refer you to Steve's answer please.
Steve Smith said:
This is the sort of generalisation which makes every teenager a troublemaking thug who sprays graffiti on walls, makes every foreigner a criminal and every unemployed person a workshy scrounger.

In all cases, and the case you cite, it is not true. We generally get inaccurate perceptions of any group of people from the small minority which we hear about - and due to the way the media works on sensationalising things, you only get to hear about the negatives relating to this very small minority and apply them to a group as a whole.
Steve.
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digitalfailure said:
Great video and well done for taking the time to do it :thumbs:

The old truck predates the requirement to have the mirror above the screen, and as I said the original video cleverly chose to ignore the view from the downward facing mirror above the door.
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Why Cleverly Brian, it makes little difference as that mirror covers the area below the door, I don't think it gives much if any sight into the main blind spot area....way less than the lower convex mirror right? So they had no reason to show us that one.
 
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Spuff said:
Makes me wonder if part of the solution might be if you want to drive an artic* in London it has to be left hand drive?
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Or as Donut's video shows - just use the mirrors.

Moving to left hand drive would improve vision on one side and reduce it on the other so nothing to gain.


Steve.
 
How many eyes is a truck driver supposed to have? To get round many left turns, the driver will need to pull out right a bit so will need to watch that side's mirror(s). He'll also need to keep an eye on oncoming traffic. Then there's the road he's turning into. That leaves -1 to watch all the mirrors for the 1/2 wit cyclist who's undertaking him despite him indicating his intention clearly. Of course there will be some drivers (of all vehicles) who don't do the above (and some who will have an eye on their satnav as well...) and there are some cyclists who will keep eyes and brains active. However, when an inattentive driver gets undertaken by a f***witted cyclist (if the sweary filter doesn't pick that up, I will...), there will be tears.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Why Cleverly Brian, it makes little difference as that mirror covers the area below the door, I don't think it gives much if any sight into the main blind spot area....way less than the lower convex mirror right? So they had no reason to show us that one.
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As someone with daily experience in the field of view of the downward mirror, I know how much you can see from it and it's clearly shown in the new video, so yes it was cleverly omitted to hammer the point home.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
May I refer you to Steve's answer please.
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Driving on average 25,000 motorway miles a year for the last 12 years, I have seen my fair share of lorry drivers due to the number I have passed over the years. I will admit they driver better while texting then any other driver. They should however know better.

How many lorry drivers driving does a lorry driver if a lorry driver could drive lorries (couldn't resist the wood chuck bit)

How many lorry drivers driving does a lorry driver see during along the motorway during his average day? Not many as they all drive the same speed and only when the pass one at a different speed can they see what the other driver is doing? So is a lorry driver a fair judge of other lorry drivers habits? I have learn't not to presume everyone is the same as me. I see that plenty of bad driving from all drivers, not keeping left, not keeping a constant speed, not getting into the left hand lane before the exit, not wearing seatbelts, oblivious to other road users, texting while driving, map reading while driving and reading while driving. It gets even worse at the weekend!
 
It was an old truck with old style mirrors, new legislation means newer trucks have better mirrors as Donut's video shows.

As I said before, is a cyclist (or other road user) likely to know or care which mirrors are fitted? Stay clear of ALL large vehicles, not all of them can see you ;)

Phil.
 
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