Honda poised to quit F1

A sign of the times, following a disappointing season.

If Honda are not at the front, will being an also ran really sell more cars and engines?
 
yikes - more unemployment

it will make life very interesting, as i would imagine the F1 TV deal contracts insist that the races have at least 18 cars on the grid.
 
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hmmm could be bad. Maybe Dave Richards has found his way back in? Would Honda still supply engines? I suppose if they are paid for them they would..
 
officially gone now?
 
Defiance said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7766092.stm

lets hope the rest of them quit the circus too
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i cant believe you've said that, peoples jobs and livelyhoods depend on hondas participation and the likely hood of finding a buyer isnt great in this climate, i hope for the sake of the staff that they do.


having found out only yesterday that my job is secure for another year (in the same industry) i feel very much for those less fortunate and your cry of 'i dont find it entertaining so lets hope it dissapears from the surface of the earth' a bit in bad taste for the 1000+ (a guess figure on how many hondaf1 employ) who may find themselves out of work in what are fairly hard times:shrug:






i really hope honda manage to find a buyer for the team, they have some very good staff and facilities that can produce a top car (dispite the last few years dissapointment), they also have one midfield driver in the shape of button on the payroll. lets hope a buyer can be found or i can see toyota doing similar if next years car isnt a front runner.
 
problem is raising the finance to do it, I don't see anyone taking advantage of this and buying in, effectively all you are doing is buying the assets - entry fees for next year presumably have to be paid, a new car is needed for next year that is (maybe) in the design or development stage. Then where will you get an engine from ?
I could see it costing £10m to get to the first race, big money, big gamble.
 
Sign of the times, motor manufacturers are feeling the pinch through falling car sales so expensive motor racing was bound to be a casualty
 
as you say about race entry fees, f1 appear to always try to sting new f1 teams (or new buyers for established teams) with massive 'entrance fees' can they not see that having more cars on the grid is better than a depleated grid and should be doing anything they can to ensure teams survive, and as such it may be better in the long run to waiver that fee, but then again f1 is now a business which is designed to make money for shareholders so (just like the massive fees to hold a race) i doubt it will waive anything.


anyone think that a deciding factor might be that f1 now no longer visits canada/america which i presume are big markets for honda/acura. as well as not visiting france in 2009, im not sure how many arabic oil shaiks in UAE buy hondas
 
whitewash said:
anyone think that a deciding factor might be that f1 now no longer visits canada/america which i presume are big markets for honda/acura. as well as not visiting france in 2009, im not sure how many arabic oil shaiks in UAE buy hondas
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Id image so tbh if you look at the rest of it too Honda are not that popularly in Italy, Spain, Australia and i believe in Germany. Running at the back of the grid for the last couple of years cant have been conviencing there directors its was worth the effort either.

Great shame though i was hoping after finding the issues with the wind tunnell and employing such great staff that they would have been upfront with the right drivers.

Maybe Dave Richards could get back this way a Dave Richards Honda partnership?

As for engines, i suppose it depends on where they are built.
 
whitewash said:
i cant believe you've said that.
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see i can, what i think was meant was they all need to leave the circus that is F1 and setup there own series elsewhere. it wont cost what it does now, you dont think Bernie has got his 2.4Billion from doing nothing.

he is ruining the sport along with Mosely and something needs to be done
 
They have announced they are stopping all f1 related activities so they will not supply any engines either. News reports are saying 800 people will be losing their jobs. My first thought was that Disco Dave will come in, especially after the failed Mclaren / Prodrive venture.
 
whitey said:
see i can, what i think was meant was they all need to leave the circus that is F1 and setup there own series elsewhere. it wont cost what it does now, you dont think Bernie has got his 2.4Billion from doing nothing.

he is ruining the sport along with Mosely and something needs to be done
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the problem is that no one team is going to pull out of formula one to compete in a series that doesnt exist. whilst something needs to be done i dont think everyone ****ing off and leaving eclestone holding the baby is the best one, talks of a breakaway formula were mooted and dropped a few years ago, what formula one is at the moment is very competitive, you have a large number of drivers who can fight for race wins, its up to the teams and the FIA to reduce the costs. the main problem would be mad max mosley and his whipping boys at the FIA and ecclestone to realise that they arent helping and about turn and point the sport in the right direction, sadly thats about as likely as a breakaway formula
 
yeah i know.

Formula 1 has alot of debt to which can only get worse, sure they paid something like 300 million in interest alone last year on debt which is a joke for a series that "should" have alot of money behind them
its a sad state of affairs the way everything is going at present, not just Formula 1
 
it owuld be interesting thoug with the way things are going whether any other teams fail to make the first race
 
whitewash said:
the problem is that no one team is going to pull out of formula one to compete in a series that doesnt exist.
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I worked in F1 for more than three years, back in the 90's and I can answer that.

Unless things have changed since I was there (which I doubt), then if Ferrari left F1, the majority of the fan base would follow them. Just think how many red flags you see at F1 races.

Ferrari have been threating to do just that since I worked in F1: why do you thing FOA/FIA are so baised towards Ferrari.....? Without Ferrari, F1 would fall apart.

The one thing I do hope happens is all F1 teams have their spending limited and so they can ditch all the electronics and get back to real racing. Just think how exciting F1 would be if the cars only had 'normal' clutches and gearboxes.
 
dave richards was all set to dive in last year, he is the only one i can see in a position to do it quick, though you would have thought he might have gone in with Aguri if he was keen. Maybe the brakely outfit might fit his plans better, he knows the place and the 'assets' of Brawn and Button might be very tempting. Where to get an engine though? Cosworth?
 
whitewash said:
having found out only yesterday that my job is secure for another year (in the same industry) i feel very much for those less fortunate and your cry of 'i dont find it entertaining so lets hope it dissapears from the surface of the earth' a bit in bad taste for the 1000+ (a guess figure on how many hondaf1 employ) who may find themselves out of work in what are fairly hard times:shrug:
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Does this mean Ford have commited to another year in the WRC?
I had read they were threatening to pull out unless they didn't get certain guarantees for the future of the WRC.
 
costs are futher on the way down aswell as Cosworth have apparantley agreed a deal with the FIA to supply engines and drivetrain from 2010 which would make it more interesting.
 
Mosley is pushing for a Cosworth spec engine, which woul be the benchmark which the manufacturers' engines wouldn't be allowed to surpass in terms of performance. One report (Autosport) was saying that Brawn had spoken to Ferrari about engines with a view to keeping the team together.

With Honda going, who's next? Will F1 last the decade out? Will the manufacturers set up their own series?
 
whitey said:
costs are futher on the way down aswell as Cosworth have apparantley agreed a deal with the FIA to supply engines and drivetrain from 2010 which would make it more interesting.
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Cosworth back where they belong. :thumbs:
 
Is Dave Richards even in a position to do it now? I might be wrong but didn't prodrive buy Aston who are in the process of laying off 600 employees? Perhaps his finances aren't up to buying in now or perhaps he wouldn't risk them at this time?
 
I don't think Richards will be able to raise the finance - thats why it hasn't happened for Prodrive so far, I don't see them being able to raise the cash to do so now.

Rumour is Toyota may follow Honda next year if results don't come.

The issue of spec engines is yet to be resolved, this will have a massive effect if Maxxx gets his way and implements them. Toyota and Ferrari have already stated that they would probably leave if they do come in, BMW/McLaren would probably follow (Imagine "the ultimate driving machine" with someone elses engine ? I think not!). With this potential implosion of the industry would you invest in a new team ? no, me either.

nilagin : AFAIK Ford will do WRC next year. Arena motorsport are going to run a customer Ford team in BTCC 2009, imho Ford are testing the water for 2010 (maybe). BTCC is a "cheap" sport and given the right exposure may work well as a sales promotion tool (certainly Vauxhall work hard at it and do well from it).
 
the funny thing is that Max has been trying to persuade the teams to cut costs for ages now but they have all had their heads in the sand and didnt see this financial situatuation coming (which in my book makes them a bit stupid)
 
Common engines is a big mistake in my opinion. It just turns it into a one make series.

Gearboxes - yes, not an issue there, as long as ratios remain free.

I would accept a common crankcase / bottom end - but manufacturers should be permitted to develop cylinder heads, camshafts, valves, pistons and so on.
 
I don't see Prodrive coming into F1 anymore, they are now taking on more work in the wrc which would mean less resources avaliable.

Part of the cost cutting saw teams running a standard ECU supplied by McLaren Electronic Systems and programmed by Microsoft, so a standard engine from Cosworth could be a possbliity but don't see it happening because then F1 will lose more car companies.
 
badgerbaiter said:
the funny thing is that Max has been trying to persuade the teams to cut costs for ages now but they have all had their heads in the sand and didnt see this financial situatuation coming (which in my book makes them a bit stupid)
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No, all he did was impose technical restrictions which basically meant the teams had to spend more to get around them - the move away from v10 engines for example - teams threw away everything (you cant just lop off a couple of cylinders) and started again, that wasn't cheap to do. In some cases this means a whole new drivetrain.

Certain exotic materials were banned under the guise of cost cutting, so the teams had to spend just as much (if not more) refining engineering techniques so they could use less exotic materials, this included alot of destructive testing.

In the old days teams developed stuff and then took it testing to prove it, testing has been repeatedly cut down to "save costs", so the teams now have complicated simulator machines that reproduce race track stresses and strains so they can do their testing. The bigger teams have wind tunnels running 24x7 to test their aero.

The 2 and now 3 race engines have meant a massive amount of development into extending the life of components before they fail.

Whilst not a cost cutting measure the new aero rules for 2009 have already cost the teams millions before they've even got a 2009 car assembled.

IMHO none of the "cost cutting" measures have actually cut costs (barring the restrictions on the number of tyres permitted).
 
Nod said:
Mosley is pushing for a Cosworth spec engine, which woul be the benchmark which the manufacturers' engines wouldn't be allowed to surpass in terms of performance. One report (Autosport) was saying that Brawn had spoken to Ferrari about engines with a view to keeping the team together.

With Honda going, who's next? Will F1 last the decade out? Will the manufacturers set up their own series?
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Well seeing as it'sa mahunfacturer that's pulled out (with possibly more to follow) there wouldnt be much point to that, would there
 
Craft said:
nilagin : AFAIK Ford will do WRC next year. Arena motorsport are going to run a customer Ford team in BTCC 2009, imho Ford are testing the water for 2010 (maybe). BTCC is a "cheap" sport and given the right exposure may work well as a sales promotion tool (certainly Vauxhall work hard at it and do well from it).
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I was under the impression Arena were building the cars themselves and entering as independants without any help from Ford. This was after evaluating several cars but settling on the Focus

andrewc said:
Common engines is a big mistake in my opinion. It just turns it into a one make series.

Gearboxes - yes, not an issue there, as long as ratios remain free.

I would accept a common crankcase / bottom end - but manufacturers should be permitted to develop cylinder heads, camshafts, valves, pistons and so on.
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I would agree with this, it would reduce costs drastically for the teams but still allow individuallity and put their own name on the engines.
I'd also go as far as all teams using a common tub but then adding their own aerodynamics.
 
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