Home studio problems

JayB

JayB

Suspended / Banned
Messages
204
Edit My Images
No
Hey guys, reasonably new to the whole studio thing and tried setting up a small studio (largest space we have available) in our garage, got the backdrop and what not all sorted. I'm using 3 speed lights. 2 to light up the background to blow it out white but I'm getting a lot of spill light on them and in the camera, If i turn the power of the speed lights down then they don't blow out the background, I'm using those rogue flash benders to limit the light to the backdrop. I have the model/subject around 1 meter away from background as that's as much as I can let them if I was to use my 50mm 1.8, I can use my 35mm 1.8 which will allow them to be about 1.5m away but I still get spill. anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

I was thinking that if I used a slower shutter speed then it would allow more light to the sensor and I could reduce the power of the 2 speed lights, but then when I do that it still ends up a similar result. My work Area is approximately 10 foot wide and 14 foot length. (shooting length ways of course)

Nikon D7100 so I have a crop factor :(

Any help is greatly appreciated folks, and if I left some details you need out, let me know
 
Last edited:
You really don't have enough space to do white background shots - or at least not enough to do them well.
If you really must do them, use black flags to reduce the amount of unwanted light reaching the lens, reduce the effective width of the white background, light the background perfectly evenly, use a good lens hood and reduce the power of the background lights as much as possible.
And think about whether the lighting you're using is likely to be flattering to your subjects.
 
Need to post a pic Jay.
 
Shutter speed will only affect ambient light levels....

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Talk Photography Forums mobile app
 
Garry Edwards said:
You really don't have enough space to do white background shots - or at least not enough to do them well.
If you really must do them, use black flags to reduce the amount of unwanted light reaching the lens, reduce the effective width of the white background, light the background perfectly evenly, use a good lens hood and reduce the power of the background lights as much as possible.
And think about whether the lighting you're using is likely to be flattering to your subjects.
Click to expand...

Garry, do you mean a bit like this diagram?
lighting-diagram.jpg

?

how thick is your background? why not shoot through the back of it, or use the speed lites with a lastolite type hollow background?
 
Thanks for the reply's folks,
@Garry Edwards - Its as much room as I've got at the minute ans its what people seem to be asking me for and I'm really not in a position to refuse work at the minute unfortunately. These black flags you speak of. what are they? I don't understand how you can get your white background through black (going by diagram above, sorry to be stupid)

@landwomble - Yea just thought that after I wrote it :(

@DizMatt - Thats the thing, there is about 5 foot of space behind the background which I cant use as there is "garage" things in it, there is however room for lights behind the background. If I'm honest its 2 bed sheets sewed together and held straight with clips. I could make it a single sheet the lights would shine through it but then how would I defuse it so it wouldn't look weird? Use the same lighting method only put them behind the sheets?
 
DizMatt said:
Garry, do you mean a bit like this diagram?
lighting-diagram.jpg

?

how thick is your background? why not shoot through the back of it, or use the speed lites with a lastolite type hollow background?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not, that's a recipe for producing an ugly shot on film. 2 stops overexposure is a bit much even for film, with digital it's way too much - 1/2 a stop will just about do.
And don't get me started on the rest of it. ..
 
Last edited:
You really can't go wrong with a lastolite hilite. It's a very effective 'cheat' for lit white background.

I use mine lit, unlit to give me a grey background and the rear is black (although a bit shiny so you have to be clever with lighting, grids etc) so you have three options.

They're not cheap but super quick and easy with speed lights or studio lights.
 
Okay garry. I wasn't getting that technical to be honest. Just thought the Op might not be au fait with black flags

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Talk Photography Forums mobile app
 
Those lastolite hilite's look the bomb but I can't afford that kind of money at the minute with trying to get on my feet. Will try the lights behind the sheets to see how that works, if anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears so to speak lol

And thanks for the ideas thus far guys.
 
Try working your way up from an ambient exposure...i.e. no flash on the subject and just a little on the BG. If you are still getting a bunch of spill from the BG onto the subject then you're done...you just don't have enough space.

Bedsheets are not a great BG for white... You'll have to hit them with a lot of light which will be hard to control as far as adding to the ambient. Seamless paper or vinyl is much better... I'm not actually certain this is a "problem" for you as you only have one light for the subject...you're kind of dependent on a pretty high ambient level.
 
DizMatt said:
Okay garry. I wasn't getting that technical to be honest. Just thought the Op might not be au fait with black flags

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Talk Photography Forums mobile app
Click to expand...
Fair point
 
sk66 said:
Try working your way up from an ambient exposure...i.e. no flash on the subject and just a little on the BG. If you are still getting a bunch of spill from the BG onto the subject then you're done...you just don't have enough space.

Bedsheets are not a great BG for white... You'll have to hit them with a lot of light which will be hard to control as far as adding to the ambient. Seamless paper or vinyl is much better... I'm not actually certain this is a "problem" for you as you only have one light for the subject...you're kind of dependent on a pretty high ambient level.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I see. I do admit it does take a lot of power to light the sheets properly, its as if they eat up some of the juice. I was looking into the vinyl roll. it looks decent. I have a 4th speed light coming (only a cheapie) for use on the background to i can use my better and stronger ones for the subject in matter, would that help me?
 
From a lighting perspective, listen to Garry.

From a business perspective, listen to Garry and step back a yard, metaphorically, although physically would help too. (Sorry, couldn't help that)

If that's the space and the gear you have, you're in no position to be selling white bg portraits, so you have to change the space, change the gear or convince the customers they're wrong and shoot a different bg.

That might sound like I'm being flippant, but it's the whole story and you probably have it worked out but you're hoping you're wrong and you've missed something.
 
Are you shooting full length shots? Have you tried adjusting the angle the light is hitting thus reflecting back from the sheet?

A cheat for the time being until you get some vinyl or seamless paper would be to bring the power down on your background lights enough it eliminates the problem then in PP mask the area and increase the highlights / shadows / exposure etc to blow it out. 100% it's preferable to get it right in camera but some times needs must until you find a solution.

Flags can be anything, they are just an object to block / absorb the light in this case e.g. foamcore board is popular in a V shape as its self supporting.
 
Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but it sounds like you're wanting to charge clients for sub-standard work (by your own admission) done in a garage full of junk, two bed sheets and hot-shoe guns.

Okay, let's leave that there, but the short answer for good results in a tight space is a Lastolite Hilite. Nothing else does that as well. And if you don't post an example pic you can only get very general advice or guesses.

Sorry to be blunt.

Edit: crossed post with Phil.
 
Last edited:
double post
 
Well cheers for the help and being honest I guess, Trying to get off the ground. I didn't mention anything about charging anyone. I'm doing it for myself if I'm honest to see if I can. We can't all start off with professional gear @HoppyUK , I'm trying to do the best I can with the materials I have at hand, which seems isn't good enough.

@Sharky - Some full lengths, I have done as you say in PP and its working ok. just thought I'd ask if there was a simpler option in my conditions but it seems there isn't.

Ill try something else then.
 
JayB said:
Well cheers for the help and being honest I guess, Trying to get off the ground. I didn't mention anything about charging anyone. I'm doing it for myself if I'm honest to see if I can. We can't all start off with professional gear @HoppyUK , I'm trying to do the best I can with the materials I have at hand, which seems isn't good enough.

@Sharky - Some full lengths, I have done as you say in PP and its working ok. just thought I'd ask if there was a simpler option in my conditions but it seems there isn't.

Ill try something else then.
Click to expand...

I did apologise in advance if I'd misunderstood, but your comment in post #6 does rather suggest paying clients ;)

And yes, we've all got to start somewhere, but for newcomers to studio work, pure white backgrounds are not easy at the best of times and all the problems you're having are very common. Quite few threads on this if you use search. To do it well, you need a bit of space so you can adjust light on the background evenly, avoid spill, control wrap and flare, balance ratios properly and minimise post-processing work. And as I said, a Hilte background is far and away the best method of doing that in a small area, typically cutting the width you need in half.

Avoid full-length until you've got half and three-quarters nailed, as it introduces a whole new set of difficulties. Stick to head and shoulders and couples for now, get a white paper or vinyl background if a Hilite is out of the question. If you post some pics, you will get plenty of specific help :)
 
well good luck
one thought. why are you looking at white high key backgrounds? are you trying to emulate a particular style?
venture portrait style for example?
as you're not doing things in a pro fashion and charging people i'll chime in again with a macgyver approach.
I would mount the speedlites on the wall, so they're less limited by the lack of space, then get some white plasticard and mount that over the flash head exposing the remote sensor. Then the white card will act as a bounce onto the background too, which will reduce the spotlight effect. Also light the LHS of the background with the flash on the right and vice versa.

another option is is get yourself to your local studio for a portrait course. I've found them very enjoyable . then when you want to do some work, £60 for four hours in a studio, split between yourself and another shooter is a bargain.
huge backgrounds, pro lighting, lots of space. very economical.
 
If you're doing the white background portraits just for fun... ditch them and do something more creative instead.
 
HoppyUK said:
I did apologise in advance if I'd misunderstood, but your comment in post #6 does rather suggest paying clients ;)

And yes, we've all got to start somewhere, but for newcomers to studio work, pure white backgrounds are not easy at the best of times and all the problems you're having are very common. Quite few threads on this if you use search. To do it well, you need a bit of space so you can adjust light on the background evenly, avoid spill, control wrap and flare, balance ratios properly and minimise post-processing work. And as I said, a Hilte background is far and away the best method of doing that in a small area, typically cutting the width you need in half.

Avoid full-length until you've got half and three-quarters nailed, as it introduces a whole new set of difficulties. Stick to head and shoulders and couples for now, get a white paper or vinyl background if a Hilite is out of the question. If you post some pics, you will get plenty of specific help :)
Click to expand...

I guess it does look like that, It seems I worded it wrong. But thanks for the help I know your only being honest and that's what I prefer. No good beating about the bush per say.

@DizMatt - The reason I was trying to do them is because that's what my mate wants for his new album (Country singer) so was trying to help him out, but I'm failing at the minute.

Thanks for the tips guys, it's much appreciated. Will try and change things about a bit more and if it doesn't work I'll just have to give it a miss.
 
Some misunderstandings here, I think.

But at the end of the day, whether you're charging or not, what you're trying to do is to copy a technique made popular by Venture back in the 90's. The difference here is that Venture had pro lighting gear and very large studios and you have the opposite. They also had a degree of expertise, although arguably their "unique" style was geared up to suit franchisees who had very little in the way of expertise...

My advice here is the same as that of others: Either abandon the idea of producing white background shots altogether or get the equipment you need to do them well. A Hi-Lite will be an enormous help here, in such a small space. But you should also look at getting studio flash instead of hotshoe flash, because lighting is actually about creating the right type of light from the right direction, to show the subjects at their best. It isn't just about having enough light for the exposure to look nice and bright, and this is where studio lighting, as opposed to hotshoe flashguns, comes into its own. Studio lights will allow you to create light, and to create the right types of shadows in the right places - it's 10x harder to do that with hotshoe flashes, even when it can be done at all
 
Okay. That makes sense. Then that's tricky . I would try something more interesting or get him down to a studio. Are these for posters? Websites? Personally I'd get him /her out into the sunshine for a portrait. A field maybe

If it's just for a poster you can anyways just shoot on grey and remove the background in photoshop

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Talk Photography Forums mobile app
 
The problem with hilite backgrounds is that they act as a soft box and you end up getting unnatural highlights on your subjects, which you don't with a well lit white background. Just something else to think about, they're not always the best solution.
 
CharlotteM said:
If you're doing the white background portraits just for fun... ditch them and do something more creative instead.
Click to expand...

This really is the best option.

Ignore your problems, and your studio for the time being; Think 'Country Singer'; what picture do you have in your mind? I can bet the fist 20 images you have don't include a white background.:shrug:

It might be what he's asking for, but that's because he's a musician not a visual artist ;).

This time of year you might get some bales still in the fields, they look great with a low sun and long shadows, you'll definitely get some interesting skies at sunset (and your flashguns will work brilliantly with those). If you can't get outside can you get into a local club* with a stage for an hour?

Failing all that, go mean and moody with a grid on a softbox and a spotlight on the background on a point of interest, try some interesting materials or even his amps and speakers, slightly OoF and a stop darker than the subject. Try a microphone or guitar as props to help him feel comfortable. Or is there a local car club* with members with American classics? Or a stables*?

*The club, stables, car owners could all be talked in to helping with a bribe of a few free pictures.

It's about being creative (in all the ways you can), rather than trying to copy something that's actually far from creative and technically difficult just for kicks.
 
It doesn't really matter what the BG is, hilite/paper/vinyl/muslin... What makes it "white" is enough light coming to the camera to make it white. And what makes it not a light source for the subject is distance (fall off). The only advantage the other BG's have is less spill into the ambient, which then requires less light on the BG to keep it above ambient, which means it will fall off quicker. Studio lights with the right modifier will allow better control to properly light the BG without adding to the ambient. The less area of BG you have to light, the less you'll add to the ambient... it's a self feeding cycle.
You could add some black panels around the subject (i.e. 3 sides of a box) to kill a lot of the BG spill which might help, but then you will be down to 1 light for the subject, more/less, due to loosing the ambient. Probably with a relatively small modifier and that's not going to work real well for most types of portraits.

3-5 ft is tough no matter how you go about it. In a way, such a small space acts more like a light tent than "a studio."

There are a couple other of options if the garage has a large car door. One would be to reverse the studio and hang the BG in the opening... in this case using the sheets backlit; hopefully backlit by daylight freeing up some lights. Assuming the sheets catch most of the light it will easily be above ambient without adding lights. This might also get you a little more working room for separation. It also makes you more dependent on the wx.
Another would be to open the door and step outside allowing more distance between the subject/BG. Having the subject just inside the shade can be a nice look...but the higher the ambient, the harder you have to hit the BG and the farther it will go.

IMHO, none of this is really a "solution" for a studio. But figuring out how to accomplish what you want/need to do in a given situation is never a bad thing...
 
I'm sure that makes perfect sense to you Steven, but you've lost me.
 
HoppyUK said:
I'm sure that makes perfect sense to you Steven, but you've lost me.
Click to expand...
Which part?
The problem with a small space is all of the spill adds to the ambient room exposure because there's not enough space for it to "fall off." That means you have to set your power higher to get it above ambient, which in turn adds more to the ambient.... And the harder you're hitting the BG the further it will bounce; so you wind up needing even more room between it and the subject.
 
sk66 said:
Which part?
The problem with a small space is all of the spill adds to the ambient room exposure because there's not enough space for it to "fall off." That means you have to set your power higher to get it above ambient, which in turn adds more to the ambient.... And the harder you're hitting the BG the further it will bounce; so you wind up needing even more room between it and the subject.
Click to expand...

It's perhaps your use of the word ambient, that usually refers to continuous light from other sources, eg room lights or daylight. Any studio space with significant ambient light that can't be controlled is a non-starter.
 
Ah, yes. I was using it as "ambient exposure," as in the part of the image that isn't supposed to be getting additional light. To my way of thinking, the light that's not controlled for placement is "ambient" regardless of how it gets there.
 
JayB said:
I guess it does look like that, It seems I worded it wrong. But thanks for the help I know your only being honest and that's what I prefer. No good beating about the bush per say.
@DizMatt - The reason I was trying to do them is because that's what my mate wants for his new album (Country singer) so was trying to help him out, but I'm failing at the minute.
Thanks for the tips guys, it's much appreciated. Will try and change things about a bit more and if it doesn't work I'll just have to give it a miss.
Click to expand...

LOL Jay, well you did ask for advice! And there is lots here. Personally, I think that it's very good advice too :)
I'm going to pipe in again!
I would do two things, firstly find the longest space you have in your house with a clean background. get a long lens and practice using 1 flash gun and a softbox.
There are lots of articles on the strobist or similar. I have a great photography magazine with single light portrait techniques.
Your garage at the moment isn't the best use of space I think.
This really is an opportunity to learn. With respect, if you aren't experienced with studio flash photography (speaking for my own experience), then buying more lighting isn't going to solve the problem.
To solve home studio problems, I would start with one light and then add them one at a time

Then there is the outdoors option. I really like this idea and several people have talking about it. Fill flash, outdoors, sunsets and whimsical looks over a field holding his guitar.
You'll need decent weather and some imagination but you will get something that you created. Anyone can point a camera nowadays, but can you create something interesting? also your subject is looking to use these in promotional flyers, then feel free to leave some dead space on one side for writing.
Look at the ex westlife blokes album, shane something.
I like these guys too, who are touring at the moment
http://www.jimdunlop.com/images/artists/ARTIST_TheTemperanceMovement_LG.jpg
http://www.mojo4music.com/media/2013/09/temperance-movement.jpg
 
@Phil V - You've got a good point, I didn't want to use white, I was thinking maybe some woodland or the likes or maybe beside a marina of some sort perhaps. Its just what he wanted, But it would be nice to try fulfil his request to if possible. I will look into the club end of things because I did hear him on about something like that a few months back.

@sk66 - Thank you Steven, that helps to, never thought on reversing the sheet to hang at the door. Some good tips there also, I know I'm not going to get a "studio" setup in my garage, as Phil says, it may be what I want to believe but its not going to happen. But I can try my best for now and see what happens.

@DizMatt - I know, I know lol. The garage is used cause its the only place I have with a somewhat ok size space, I live in the country and the house is a small bungalow so my choice of walls are VERY limited lol, but I do get where your coming from.

The outdoors things is probably what I'm going to go for with him as suggested by you and others here and rightly so. Its a chance to be imaginative and "try" things. The whole "studio" type setup I was just trying and would like to try again with others if I can until I can find somewhere decent in size which will help me do what I would like.

Thanks everyone, you have all helped educate me. I'll give all this a go over the next week or so and get back to you with a few pics of how things turned out and you can give your C&C lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top