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Cally

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Cally
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Hi guys,

Just wanted a bit of advice (although I am sure this comes up a lot) I'm very new with photography but I really want to get into portraits in the long run so looking for a home studio set up on the cheap that I could get decent shots out and be able to play with lighting a bit if possible?

Thing is for now I will just be doing family and friends for free so whilst I don't want anything that is going to fall apart after the first use I do want something cheap and cheerful to start... (I guess if I get a decent backdrop I can upgrade the lights as and when?)

What do people think of this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Studio-Vi...408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ed9016af8

I know flash lighting is better but from what I have found they are £200+ for those basic sets + and I hear that if you put do much power through our camera it can fry it? (D3200 if that helps)
 
They're simply unsuitable for photographing people. Not enough light to get a decent shutter speed.

If you really can't spring enough cash for flash (which can be done relatively cheaply) use daylight. Windowlit portraits are lovely, so too are low sun backlit images, portraits shot in open shade or overcast skies.

I'd avoid backdrops for a while, concentrate on learning to shoot people, think about your light source, and when you've exhausted all the above and you understand the limitations you'll have saved enough for a decent light source.
 
Phil as ever offers some really good advice. Those kits are terrible and in my opinion, a complete waste of time.

You'd be better off picking up a couple of cheap speedlights from Yongnuo and an inexpensive umbrella/softbox combo.
 
I'm really set on getting a back drop at least - I have two young children and a business alongside trying to run a house it's extremely difficult for me to find time and I want something I can do indoors, I can imagine their are creative things you can do round the house though. I took my camera out with me yesterday to the park but the pictures I got were far and few between because I can't run round after a child with a camera in hand.

Would the other suggestion to just be buy the back drop and not waste the money on the lights using natural light for now?(Assuming I would get the decent ones when I could afford it.) I know I still have a steep learning curve ahead of me but children's portraits is my long term goal and what I want to focus on the most.
 
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To echo what's already been said, don't waste your money on those lights.
I wouldn't buy a background either - what's the point unless you have the means of lighting it?
Your first buying decision should be a small, decent quality studio flash kit, learn how to use it well and then think about adding a background, if you really think that you need one.

A studio flash kit is by far your best option, compared to speedlights, but even speedlights are way better than junk continuous lighting.
 
I appreciate that's your long term aim, that's why I'm suggesting the first step should be 'learn your subject'.

A background pulls you into a specific path. Where will you set it up? Where's the natural light in relation to that? How easily can you control that light?
If those answers aren't simple, you need to add your own controllable light source. Flash is better than continuous, studio flash is better than speedlights.
An experienced photographer can perform miracles with a speedlight, some cardboard and a reflector.
But they generally learned that by using decent kit designed for the purpose.
Have a look at @Sir SR 's photos, Shaheed doesn't generally use a backdrop, what do you think he's got wrong?
Also have a look at Bethy @sunnyside_up 'a work, Bethy often uses a backdrop, but is it the backdrop that's creating the magic? Nope, it's her interaction with the subject and her imagination.

What kind of thing are you aiming for? We might be able to give you a realistic idea of the gear required.
 
I wouldn't discredit the kits entirely. They're a great way of teaching you what a terrible set of studio equipment is but a lot of people start off with one. I would say that pretty much everything in the kit is of terrible quality. The muslin backdrops are very prone to creasing and the colours are all messed up. I happen to know that the white one looks more blue than anything. The lights have nowhere near enough power, but if you could use a tripod and a still subject then maybe.

It's clear you want start taking studio style portraits with a budget. Why not go for a backdrop stand and a decent paper roll in a light shade of grey (probably about £25 for a 1.3mW roll) which will be a bit easier to light. You really need some sort of off-camera flash but you could always try it with your camera flash. In my head that doesn't look great but it's a starting point and although everyone will suggest ordering studio flash kits etc. I expect most people like myself have built it all up over time.
 
Cally said:
I know flash lighting is better but from what I have found they are £200+ for those basic sets
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There's no good continuous light kit that's cheap so scratch that off your list unless you like wasting money.

Cally said:
and I hear that if you put do much power through our camera it can fry it? (D3200 if that helps)
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The really old flash heads may put out enough voltage on the synch port to damage some modern cameras but it's not a problem because we're talking very old kit and most people will want to use a radio trigger so no worries about breaking anything.
 
Thanks ~ I do appreciate the replies. I know a photographer should be able to make the best out of a bad situation but my house is really not photo friendly. I guess the main aim is start building a bit of a portfolio and lets face it whilst a backdrop isn't everything ~ a proper backdrop gives the sense of being more professional, you have a picture in the garden of my kids people say oh that's nice...you do it on a white background people are going to ask where you went.(For a non photographer anyway) Second aim is to have something to build on, I just don't know what I want or what is going to suit what I need so I figured take the leap and figure the rest stuff out as I go along.

I know right now my photos would be crap compared to the big guys (or even the average) but I thought it would be a good starting point, something fun to do and best off something I can do at home! :)

I think the idea of the backdrop stand might be a good idea and then perhaps just spend a chunk on getting a decent light? (Would the eBay stands do if I did that or is that something someone can point me in direction of)

Don't worry I will still be practising outside the studio to! I'm youtube obsessed ATM with portrait style photography but they have been more people based then the tech side of things.

I did think of renting one out for an hour here and their but I am not having much luck seem to be getting ignored and no one getting back to me...
 
The thing about Ebay is that it offers an enormous choice - but there's nothing cheap on there, and low priced stuff is low priced for a reason, including light stands.

There's a lot of good stuff on Youtube, but most of the tutorials on there are in fact worse than useless, and it can be hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.

A single decent light is, IMO, a much better buy then a set of cheap ones. Add a 5 in 1 reflector and a decent stand, and away you go. The reason that most people buy 2 or 3 head kits is that they know that they are going to end up with them, so buy them as a kit because there are substantial savings when you buy a kit.

I'm not surprised that people are ignoring you if you want to hire a studio for an hour - it isn't worth their while, and it won't be worth your while either, 4 hours is more like it. Don't expect most hire studios to have anything more than very basic equipment, and don't expect any help offered by the owners to be worth having, because the hire studios offered to most amateurs are themselves very amateur.

As for white backgrounds - yes, there are still a lot of people who like them and photographers often have to supply what their customers want - but it isn't the only way of looking professional and it has inbuilt problems - to do it well, you need both space and experience, and you also need 2 x flash heads just for the background, which makes 3 heads an absolute minimum but not really enough for creative lighting on your subject.

The need for low trigger voltage did exist, about 15 years ago, with Canon cameras, but they are far less sensitive to voltage now and other makes never have been, it was primarily a Canon problem (Canon have never seemed to accept that anyone would ever want to use any kind of flash not made by them). But, all studio flash manufacturers reduced their trigger voltages to accommodate the Canon cameras, and to reassure the people who thought that it applied to all cameras, so there is no problem now - and as Simon Barker pointed out, we all use radio triggers now anyway.
 
I actually have a similar kit, never used it until the other day as I have a proper studio to play with but it's never going to be good for photographs. As an example both lights can just about light one of my vintage backdrops at f2 iso800 1/125th.


Verdict = garbage

a22bf0ca9e92b463dfbdd810c14f093e
 
Avoid the cloth backdrops terrible waste of time,

As you seem set on going studio why not buy a few yongnuo triggers and flash's and a couple of brollies and a proper paper backdrop and stand should be able to get the whole lot for under £200 then upgrade to studio flash heads later on down the line
 
Don't over complicate things would be my two cents - start with one light and a reflector. Change up your modifiers; umbrellas and softboxes (with / without grids) and Shaheed @Sir SR does wonders with a plain wall. Some of my best stuff (in my opinion) was done with just one light. I use Quadras personally, but there's plenty of decent battery flash units out there very reasonably priced. Don't run before you can walk.
 
@Cally I think you should specify you budget really because you've left it wide open for people to just suggest all possible combinations of kit that could either be cheap or not depending on what you're looking to spend.
 
Thanks guys, I've got a big order to do for my business so I will sift through and post back when I have a possible set up. I think reasonably looking under £200 to start as their are other things I need although it costs what it costs. I get married in June so I may have to wait for July if it was more then that.
 
Cally, I hate to do this, but if I don't you won't 'get it'. You think because you know what you want that there's a shortcut to get there, we're trying to tell you the path to that destination is to learn to shoot and then to light.
Cally said:
I guess the main aim is start building a bit of a portfolio and lets face it whilst a backdrop isn't everything ~ a proper backdrop gives the sense of being more professional, you have a picture in the garden of my kids people say oh that's nice...you do it on a white background people are going to ask where you went.(For a non photographer anyway)
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This is a grave misunderstanding. A badly lit, badly framed shot on a white background will look s***. It won't have your neighbours asking where you had it shot, it'll have them wondering why you paid more for the gear to create it than they spent having a better one shot. Erecting a white background doesn't create a 'studio'. When you understand this you can turn anywhere into a studio. You'll create professional looking images in the park, in the bathroom, in the hall, in the kitchen, anywhere.

A white background done properly is a struggle in a domestic size room, if you're really clever you'll get away with 2 lights, but I'd recommend at least 3 and a lot of space.

For simplicity, a single light (either a flashgun or studio head), a stand, a couple of umbrellas (or a softbox) a 5 in 1 reflector and a pair of triggers should be under £200 if you shop carefully.

I'll PM you a costed list later. I need to make tea and I'm off out to shoot the kids in the park.
 
One tip is you can't rely on brand names being an indicator of quality. I've seen some of the cheap Chinese lighting equipment branded with the name of a major player in UK photographic retailing (With a huge mark-up by the way) . Buyer beware as they say.
 
No that's great and would be much appreciated Phil! I guess I am taking my past experience as well as I had my kids photos done at the cheap photo studios in town and it wasn't until last week I realised it's out of focus! I don't think I ever would of if I hadn't of picked up a camera but that's not to say others would of been happy with it. That said I watched (another) youtube earlier and I completely get what you are saying, she used fabric backdrops that she had picked up in shops and got someone to hold it up or got it held up over the fire place and she got some brilliant shots..it's all about being creative.

I'm sure you get it all the time beginners wanting to run before they can walk and I know I fall into that category hands down but I also know I am not going to be happy till I get a studio to play with... :/ (Sorry!)

On a side note I am picking up my tripod tomorrow! Can't wait to have it in my hands. :D
 
Cally said:
No that's great and would be much appreciated Phil! I guess I am taking my past experience as well as I had my kids photos done at the cheap photo studios in town and it wasn't until last week I realised it's out of focus! I don't think I ever would of if I hadn't of picked up a camera but that's not to say others would of been happy with it. That said I watched (another) youtube earlier and I completely get what you are saying, she used fabric backdrops that she had picked up in shops and got someone to hold it up or got it held up over the fire place and she got some brilliant shots..it's all about being creative.

I'm sure you get it all the time beginners wanting to run before they can walk and I know I fall into that category hands down but I also know I am not going to be happy till I get a studio to play with... :/ (Sorry!)

On a side note I am picking up my tripod tomorrow! Can't wait to have it in my hands. :D
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I remember starting out and basically throwing money at the problem. I bought a couple of speedlights, a pop up background....all sorts.

Learn from all our advice/mistakes!! Or make the same ones some of us have and fritter away money.

One light and a reflector. Great way to start. A plain wall (you might need to move some furniture). A bit (a lot) of reading. Understanding how light behaves, especially in relation to your subject will help no end (light, science, magic - a definite book to read). I don't have a lot of space. I really wanted a studio space BUT you don't need it. A local (ish) award winning child photographer works out of his front room. Beth does the same with amazing results. I work in a small space, in a place I have affectionately dubbed the "bedroom wall studios"

Take pics, put them up for crit/advice and the friendly folk if TP will help you improve.

My small space View attachment 35149
 
Thanks :) , our dining room has old horrible wall paper (we are planning on redecorating) and the front room is mid decoration but even so it's not plain it has a white strip round the middle to which would put me off (plus it needs to be toddler friendly if it was in their). I have quite a big second bedroom that is my office ATM but I have down sized my business (Well I cut a few product lines out that weren't making much to focus on what was) and the overall plan was to shift some unwanted stock I have lying around so I can turn it into a temporary studio. It has a green wall though, certainly not ideal but I suppose workable if that's all you have?

Our main bedroom is a deep blue but their is no more space in here with two cots & wardrobes and things.

Appreciate the book advice, will get my hands on it.
 
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Sir SR said:
I remember starting out and basically throwing money at the problem. I bought a couple of speedlights, a pop up background....all sorts.

Learn from all our advice/mistakes!! Or make the same ones some of us have and fritter away money.

One light and a reflector. Great way to start. A plain wall (you might need to move some furniture). A bit (a lot) of reading. Understanding how light behaves, especially in relation to your subject will help no end (light, science, magic - a definite book to read). I don't have a lot of space. I really wanted a studio space BUT you don't need it. A local (ish) award winning child photographer works out of his front room. Beth does the same with amazing results. I work in a small space, in a place I have affectionately dubbed the "bedroom wall studios"

Take pics, put them up for crit/advice and the friendly folk if TP will help you improve.

My small space View attachment 35149
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Sound as a pound.
 
Cally said:
Thanks :) , our dining room has old horrible wall paper (we are planning on redecorating) and the front room is mid decoration but even so it's not plain it has a white strip round the middle to which would put me off (plus it needs to be toddler friendly if it was in their). I have quite a big second bedroom that is my office ATM but I have down sized my business (Well I cut a few product lines out that weren't making much to focus on what was) and the overall plan was to shift some unwanted stock I have lying around so I can turn it into a temporary studio. It has a green wall though, certainly not ideal but I suppose workable if that's all you have?

Our main bedroom is a deep blue but their is no more space in here with two cots & wardrobes and things.

Appreciate the book advice, will get my hands on it.
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A little bit of redecorating would be cheaper than the cheap background kits, and will probably last longer.;)
 
dizidav said:
A little bit of redecorating would be cheaper than the cheap background kits, and will probably last longer.;)
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This^
When I finally get time to upload my light modifier 101 you'll see that when we decorated I chose wallpapers that made suitable backdrops, so all I have to do is take the pictures off the walls to have a portrait sized backdrop.
 
I have one of those cheap eBay kits (few softboxes and backdrops) and completely agree with what others have said. They are useless for photography.

I bought my set for video a few years ago and they're passable for that.

I should point out that I've never tried portrait photography, it's not my thing, I just wanted to confirm the cheap sets are not worth it.

Not sure if these would be any good for your purpose (but I'm sure others in this thread will know) but I've just ordered 2 x Yongnuo 560 IV flashes and a 560 TX controller, giving me two manual flashes off camera. This set up cost me £130.
 
Phil V said:
This^
When I finally get time to upload my light modifier 101 you'll see that when we decorated I chose wallpapers that made suitable backdrops, so all I have to do is take the pictures off the walls to have a portrait sized backdrop.
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We are having building work done. SWMBO keeps asking why I want grey on a lot of the walls[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
 
Oh dear you've got me thinking what I can do with the dining room now... o_O It's good space to if you put the table to one side and decent lighting at certain times of day (well if you would use natural light for things I assume some would but I have no idea!)

If anyone has any books while you're here that you consider to be gems I would appreciate it for my list, I have read DSLR for Dummies back to front and I realised yesterday it's the only information book I've ever read all the way through...even my photoshop book is only about 50% through and I've had that over a year(At least I have a good grasp of PS that's one thing I can build on as I use it in my main business) I can't believe how hard photography is hitting me I've never really had an interest like this before!

Will update you with what I decided to go with and a few test shots when I am up and running :confused:

Edit: Forget the dining room just realised the a radiator where I was thinking it would actually work and the other side wouldn't be suitable.. #sigh

Wouldn't get away with painting upstairs again it's not long been done. OH wouldn't be happy esp not to grey either ! :-)
 
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Cally said:
Edit: Forget the dining room just realised the a radiator where I was thinking it would actually work and the other side wouldn't be suitable.. #sigh
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The radiator may not show in portraits as long as they are not full length, you can always paint it the same colour as the wall.:D
 
There are no rights or wrongs in photography and everyone has his own approach. I'm guessing that Shaheed takes a lot of photos of his daughters (I've met them and they're delightful) against his walls, and there's nothing wrong with his choices, but environmental portraits have their place too, with people in their natural surroundings - there is nothing 'unprofessional' about that.
I visited a gunsmith at the weekend, he is elderly and just oozes craftsmanship, and if I was photographing him it would be in his workshop, which is cluttered to say the least, and the clutter, the hand tools and the machine tools would be a very important part of the shot - it would be pretty well impossible to convey his 50 years of skill against a plain wall or any kind of 'studio' background.
 
I'm waiting it out ATM as someone on my partners side has come into some financial issues and I have a feeling our savings are going to be taking a hit soon and I still need to sort my office out which I am hoping to do today as the children are off with nanny for day now!! In mean time I played around with the light in my front room a bit can people give their expert eye? I know they are not great but I don't think I am getting the sharpness in them?

Do you realise how hard it is to photograph a 1 year old on the smallest backdrop ever? (in-between the sofa and his swing thing on half a wall as the top half is cream!!) I do realise how close he is to the wall but at time their was little I could of done lol.

I am gutted that the third photo came out so badly, I'm only posting it as I thought it would be a brilliant photo(again as the Mum!! lol) but it was a case of quick shooting and then the chance was missed, I do think these photos are abit of motherly love then a photographer..
Mikey.jpg

Mikey%203.jpg

DSC_0878.jpg
 
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You've just reminded me why I don't photograph kids and why my interest in them stops after conception:)

There are a couple of obvious reasons for the unsharpness.
1. You used a kit lens, maximum aperture f/3.5, at f/4. Kit lenses don't generally do well at anything less than 2 stops down from maximum, say f/8 with this lens.
2. There is very little depth of field at f/4
3. You shot at 400 ISO, which is sort of OK but 100 ISO would have been a bit better.

And, in your last pic at least, the soles of his trainers seem to be sharper than his face - do you have one of those awful clever features on your camera that decides for you what you're looking at and so decides what to focus on? If so, then turn it off and just use a single focusing point, and stick it on his eye.
 
Garry Edwards said:
3. You shot at 400 ISO, which is sort of OK but 100 ISO would have been a bit better.
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It absolutely amazes me that you know this. I was really struggling to get the light in some places of the room, I was at the highest(lowest? excuse my ignorance) f stop with my kit lens and ofc with children moving a lot I couldn't compromise to much on shutter speed so I racked up the ISO a bit.

My light science and magic book literally just got pushed through the door...happy!

Will have a look at getting that auto focus thing off and I am planning on getting the 50mm 1.8 any day now I have the money set aside for that.
 
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Cally said:
It absolutely amazes me that you know this. I was really struggling to get the light in some places of the room, I was at the highest(lowest? excuse my ignorance) f stop with my kit lens and ofc with children moving a lot I couldn't compromise to much on shutter speed so I racked up the ISO a bit.

My light science and magic book literally just got pushed through the door...happy!
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Either I'm incredibly clever or that info is in the exif data of your image - along with details of your lens, the focal length and aperture used:)
 
I'm just going to sit in the corner with my Dunce hat for a bit. :whistle:
 
Cally said:
I was at the highest(lowest? excuse my ignorance) f stop with my kit lens and ofc with children moving a lot I couldn't compromise to much on shutter speed so I racked up the ISO a bit.
.
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Don't freak out about upping your iso... most newer cameras these days can cope with some pretty high ISO's without compromising quality. Ideally you want to keep it as low as possible, but don't worry about dialing it up if your camera can handle it.
 
sunnyside_up said:
Don't freak out about upping your iso... most newer cameras these days can cope with some pretty high ISO's without compromising quality. Ideally you want to keep it as low as possible, but don't worry about dialing it up if your camera can handle it.
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That's right, I just mentioned it as something that wasn't ideal, but it's minor - even on a Canon:exit:
What does matter is using the lens wide open, and the focus point
Cally said:
I'm just going to sit in the corner with my Dunce hat for a bit. :whistle:
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Don't worry about it, there's a steep learning curve in photography
 
As has already been said, one light is the way to go for starting up, just keep it as simple as you can. See below

One Lencarta Smartflash 200 on a stand, with a 24 x 24inch softbox, shot against a wall in a very small room

 
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