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lucy901123

lucy901123

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Ok, so, iv been doing photography for years as a hobby and usually do outdoor s***s. I usually find my editing process is done on my phone as to date it's not been anything professional - and I must say they arent too shabby so far. I've got the smallest room to do photography in. But I need to start somewhere. What equipment do I need to start a mini studio. So far I have 2 backdrops, tripod, a flashgun for my camera (a cheap one mind. ...) and I have my back drop stand on order. I don't have any lighting at the minute as I'm unsure what's best with the space I have. Any advice on what things I need to create professional photos in a small space.
 
start with a flash (& a set of remote triggers Yongnou 622's)
 
Assuming it's portraits and budget is tight, the standard answer around these parts is Lencarta. There a quite a few good starter options available, but Lencarta is as good or better at keen prices, with good service and back-up. Garry Edwards is their man, a regular poster on here. Phone him to discuss.

I'm personally very fond of the Smartflash-2, that punches way above its weight. Check out their two-head kits for best value, but use their swap-out option to upgrade standard softboxes to the Profold versions, while retaining the discount. If you have to pack away each time, they are 100x easier.

Studio lights beat speedlite guns every time if you have mains power - a modelling lamp so you can see what's happening, fast recycle times, power when you need it, and tons of light modifier options. Often cheaper too.
 
HoppyUK said:
Assuming it's portraits and budget is tight, the standard answer around these parts is Lencarta. There a quite a few good starter options available, but Lencarta is as good or better at keen prices, with good service and back-up. Garry Edwards is their man, a regular poster on here. Phone him to discuss.

I'm personally very fond of the Smartflash-2, that punches way above its weight. Check out their two-head kits for best value, but use their swap-out option to upgrade standard softboxes to the Profold versions, while retaining the discount. If you have to pack away each time, they are 100x easier.

Studio lights beat speedlite guns every time if you have mains power - a modelling lamp so you can see what's happening, fast recycle times, power when you need it, and tons of light modifier options. Often cheaper too.
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Wow,
Ok. That is a very in depth and helpful answer! Thank u very much. I will have a look into it. I am shooting in a small area and will be portrait.
 
Working in a small space is a bit like a slow form of torture but what can you do, it is what it is.
 
You just have to do what you can, and work within the limitations. Solo portraits and couples should be okay.

The problem is mainly light spill, that bounces around the room, picking up any strong colours and returning as all-over light that brightens shadows un an uncontrolled way. Sometimes that's good, but not for say a low-key shadowy portrait with dark background. Things you can do include painting the room black* or using grids on the lights that are very effective at reducing spill. Use a smaller softbox, maybe 60-70cm rather than 100cm, eg Bessel Speedbox.

The other thing is obviously sheer space. Something like a 100cm softbox is big, and deep - meaning you can't get it very far away without meeting a wall. Umbrellas are better for that, you can push them right up against the wall/ceiling, but they naturally create a lot of spill.

It's not a deal breaker though. Crack on and give it a go :)

*or dark drapes, or polystyrene insulating boards painted back one side. They're very useful for all kinds of things etc, I use them a lot, either black or white side as appropriate.
 
Just to add to Richards brilliant response from a different angle.

It's the old 'I wouldn't have started from here' response. Most amateur 'studio photography' is fairly poor and that's simply due to the limitations of a small studio space and crappy use of backgrounds.

Learn to manipulate light, using flash or window light, use control of DoF to get interesting backgrounds to your shots.
 
Can I ask why you would have things painted black if your looking for light to bounce/reflect?

Might be a stupid question, but I'm just learning lighting...
 
drb5 said:
Can I ask why you would have things painted black if your looking for light to bounce/reflect?

Might be a stupid question, but I'm just learning lighting...
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You paint things black to stop unwanted reflections. You can't control your light if its bouncing about all over the place.
 
simonbarker said:
Working in a small space is a bit like a slow form of torture but what can you do, it is what it is.
Click to expand...

I think once you've realised what the imitations are of a small space and work around them, it's not too big a barrier.

Admittedly I don't use my 120 octa all the time!
 
drb5 said:
Can I ask why you would have things painted black if your looking for light to bounce/reflect?

Might be a stupid question, but I'm just learning lighting...
Click to expand...

As Phil said. For good light control, you have light where you want it, but not where you don't. Most custom studios get around this simply by being big, because brightness falls off very quickly with distance. If the walls etc are just two or three metres away from the shooting area, there will be very little light bouncing back from there; painting walls black does the same thing with closer walls, a darkish grey works pretty well too, and looks rather better. My ideal (small) studio, and maybe I'll have it one day ;) will have pure white walls and ceiling, but with black floor to ceiling drapes or blinds that can be closed or pulled back at will. White walls can make a great big softbox just by pointing a powerful light at them, ditto the ceiling.

On the other hand, for a lot of home portraiture, most people prefer quite a bright, soft light anyway. A bit of spill does no harm and may even be beneficial. The thing is to get started, get stuck in, and see what you get. If it's not quite what you were hoping for, post some pictures up here. There is usually an easy answer to most things.

NB Bear in mind that the most important thing is the subject, the right expression, at the right moment. A bad portrait, badly posed and poorly timed, is still bad, even if the lighting is perfect.
 
HoppyUK said:
As Phil said. For good light control, you have light where you want it, but not where you don't. Most custom studios get around this simply by being big, because brightness falls off very quickly with distance. If the walls etc are just two or three metres away from the shooting area, there will be very little light bouncing back from there; painting walls black does the same thing with closer walls, a darkish grey works pretty well too, and looks rather better. My ideal (small) studio, and maybe I'll have it one day ;) will have pure white walls and ceiling, but with black floor to ceiling drapes or blinds that can be closed or pulled back at will. White walls can make a great big softbox just by pointing a powerful light at them, ditto the ceiling.

On the other hand, for a lot of home portraiture, most people prefer quite a bright, soft light anyway. A bit of spill does no harm and may even be beneficial. The thing is to get started, get stuck in, and see what you get. If it's not quite what you were hoping for, post some pictures up here. There is usually an easy answer to most things.

NB Bear in mind that the most important thing is the subject, the right expression, at the right moment. A bad portrait, badly posed and poorly timed, is still bad, even if the lighting is perfect.
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Love this answer!
 
lucy901123 said:
Ok, so, iv been doing photography for years as a hobby and usually do outdoor s***s. I usually find my editing process is done on my phone as to date it's not been anything professional - and I must say they arent too shabby so far. I've got the smallest room to do photography in. But I need to start somewhere. What equipment do I need to start a mini studio. So far I have 2 backdrops, tripod, a flashgun for my camera (a cheap one mind. ...) and I have my back drop stand on order. I don't have any lighting at the minute as I'm unsure what's best with the space I have. Any advice on what things I need to create professional photos in a small space.
Click to expand...

Don't buy any more lights until you understand the abilities & limitations of your flashgun - the fact that it is cheap should make little difference. Get a convertible reflector / shoot-through umbrella, umbrella bracket, stand and some remote triggers. Get some large pieces of white and black card (or painted polystyrene panels) for use as reflectors / flags & some duct tape, and some voile fabric to soften window light and start from there. That lot should easily be enough to produce 'professional photos', even in a small space.
 
juggler said:
Don't buy any more lights until you understand the abilities & limitations of your flashgun - the fact that it is cheap should make little difference. Get a convertible reflector / shoot-through umbrella, umbrella bracket, stand and some remote triggers. Get some large pieces of white and black card (or painted polystyrene panels) for use as reflectors / flags & some duct tape, and some voile fabric to soften window light and start from there. That lot should easily be enough to produce 'professional photos', even in a small space.
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I can't agree with that. Hotshoe flashguns are brilliant for the purpose they're designed for, but they aren't designed for studio use, they just have too many limitations that make life especially hard for people who are just starting out and who need tools that make things easy.
The limited power isn't too much of a problem as long as you can exclude competing light sources, such as window light, but they do have some more serious limitations.
1. They don't have a modelling lamp, so constant test shots are needed just so that you can see where the shadows will fall, and to see the intensity of those shadows. This slows the process down, causes frustration and doesn't exactly get the best out of either photographer or victim subject.
2. They recycle very slowly, this is incredibly frustrating and means that a lot of good shots are missed. Studio flash heads typically recycle in 1/5th second at their lowest power setting, 1 second at their highest.
3. Their built in, very harsh reflectors mean that they are OK for umbrellas and very small softboxes, but for nothing else. The discussion above sets out the reasons for needing to control the light properly indoors, and in a small space with a low ceiling and reflective walls, the accessories that can be used with hotshoe flashguns are really the worst possible choice for most people, most of the time. Studio flashes make it easy to control the light, hotshoe flashes make it difficult to do anything more than just provide enough light, and that isn't what lighting is about, it's about quality not quantity.
4. There is virtually nothing in it, cost wise, between even a cheap hotshoe flashgun of uncertain quality from one of the myriad of small backstreet factories that knock them out with a known name on them, and a decent quality studio flash head that comes with a warranty and full support.

In short, it's studio flash every time for studio use.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I can't agree with that. Hotshoe flashguns are brilliant for the purpose they're designed for, but they aren't designed for studio use, they just have too many limitations that make life especially hard for people who are just starting out and who need tools that make things easy.
The limited power isn't too much of a problem as long as you can exclude competing light sources, such as window light, but they do have some more serious limitations.
1. They don't have a modelling lamp, so constant test shots are needed just so that you can see where the shadows will fall, and to see the intensity of those shadows. This slows the process down, causes frustration and doesn't exactly get the best out of either photographer or victim subject.
2. They recycle very slowly, this is incredibly frustrating and means that a lot of good shots are missed. Studio flash heads typically recycle in 1/5th second at their lowest power setting, 1 second at their highest.
3. Their built in, very harsh reflectors mean that they are OK for umbrellas and very small softboxes, but for nothing else. The discussion above sets out the reasons for needing to control the light properly indoors, and in a small space with a low ceiling and reflective walls, the accessories that can be used with hotshoe flashguns are really the worst possible choice for most people, most of the time. Studio flashes make it easy to control the light, hotshoe flashes make it difficult to do anything more than just provide enough light, and that isn't what lighting is about, it's about quality not quantity.
4. There is virtually nothing in it, cost wise, between even a cheap hotshoe flashgun of uncertain quality from one of the myriad of small backstreet factories that knock them out with a known name on them, and a decent quality studio flash head that comes with a warranty and full support.

In short, it's studio flash every time for studio use.
Click to expand...

I agree that studio lights are preferable but I think it's very easy to throw money at a problem and just end up confused. The OP already has a flashgun and understanding what it can & can't do would be a good way of ensuring that when she does buy stuff she understands what she actually needs. It would be possible to buy some gear, follow someone else's plan and set up some lights which gave satisfactory results but that's not the same as understanding what they do.

You have a vast amount more experience than me but I found my early attempts with large softboxes incredibly frustrating; IMO they're as hard to control as an umbrella, just different. Yes, they offer more fine control, but only once you've had a fair bit of practice.

It depends a fair bit on what sort of things the OP wants to produce; 'vanilla' head & shoulders portraits or something else?

Shaheed's recent work with simple flashguns is fabulous; I won't make any claims for my own but I like it.
 
juggler said:
I agree that studio lights are preferable but I think it's very easy to throw money at a problem and just end up confused. The OP already has a flashgun and understanding what it can & can't do would be a good way of ensuring that when she does buy stuff she understands what she actually needs. It would be possible to buy some gear, follow someone else's plan and set up some lights which gave satisfactory results but that's not the same as understanding what they do.

You have a vast amount more experience than me but I found my early attempts with large softboxes incredibly frustrating; IMO they're as hard to control as an umbrella, just different. Yes, they offer more fine control, but only once you've had a fair bit of practice.

It depends a fair bit on what sort of things the OP wants to produce; 'vanilla' head & shoulders portraits or something else?

Shaheed's recent work with simple flashguns is fabulous; I won't make any claims for my own but I like it.
Click to expand...

Having been round the houses with firstly buying multiple flash guns, then buying studio heads, I'll throw up my 2p.

I started with flash guns off camera and found it hard. It was expensive also. I did get some good results.

I then got some studio lights but it took a while for me to use them to its full potential. Got some softboxes, did some reading and then experimented a lot. The fast recycle and modeling light really helped here.

From reading and understanding a bit more about light, having used the studio lights, I felt more confident in the understanding of how light behaves and how to take advantage of that.

So recently I've not had access to the studio lights so have been using on camera flash and natural light. Yes I have had some decent results with it, but that came from having used the studio lights a lot previously to know how to control the available light/bounce on camera flash.

So, if it was me the smart flash 2 is a cracking option to start with, together with a pop up reflector!

Just my 2p

Shaheed
 
lucy901123 said:
Ok, so, iv been doing photography for years as a hobby and usually do outdoor s***s. I usually find my editing process is done on my phone as to date it's not been anything professional - and I must say they arent too shabby so far. I've got the smallest room to do photography in. But I need to start somewhere. What equipment do I need to start a mini studio. So far I have 2 backdrops, tripod, a flashgun for my camera (a cheap one mind. ...) and I have my back drop stand on order. I don't have any lighting at the minute as I'm unsure what's best with the space I have. Any advice on what things I need to create professional photos in a small space.
Click to expand...

I started with Speedlites and went to strobes later. I found that a good way to go for me.

If you decide to go straight for strobes, make sure they will go low enough in power so that you can be more flexible with aperture - ie, so you can artistically reduce your depth of field. This can be a serious problem with strobes.

With Speedlites, instead of a strobe's modeling lights, I am able to use the dof preview button on my Canon to get a pulsed light that shows me where they are pointing.

If you want to have a play before charging off in one direction, try one Speedlight and a 1 meter 5-in-1 reflector. Pick up a cheapo Ebay umbrella that does reflective and shoot through and a small 24" softbox with a grid.

In a small space you are going to have light bouncing around from your walls that will be hard to control which is one reason I feel you'll be happier with a softbox and grid. Umbrellas chuck light everywhere.

You will be amazed at one you can achieve with just one light as your main light and a reflector for fill. In fact, check out Youtube for one light tutorials - there is a ton of information on Youtube and you can't beat actually watching a shoot.

Here is a great intro video that shows you what's involved.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAbSn7VkhmY


To avoid hours of frustration, don't even bother trying a pure white background in a very small space. Gray is a good place to start and perhaps black. If you just want to do portraits the Lastolite backgrounds are great, will pack away when you're done and are very portable.

Working in a small space will always be frustrating. You will always be thinking, "if only I had just another few feet", but it is also possible to achieve good results.

Most of all, have fun! Best of luck :)
 
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I don't completely disagree with you. In particular, I agree that large softboxes can cause far more problems than they solve when used in a small space. We do in fact go out of our way to tell people, on our various softbox product pages, what each softox is ideal for and we warn people not to get one that's too big for their space - but unfortunately a lot of people just ignore us and get the biggest one they can:(

Everyone who knows me, and people who have asked for advice when I'm wearing my Lencarta hat, will know that I'm not someone who advises people to throw money at problems. Knowledge, thought and care trumps gear every time, it's just that using gear that's less than ideal makes the job harder and so needs more knowledge, thought and care.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Everyone who knows me, and people who have asked for advice when I'm wearing my Lencarta hat, will know that I'm not someone who advises people to throw money at problems.
Click to expand...

I hope I didn't imply that was the case; your generosity on these forums demonstrates that selling stuff is far down your list of priorities when posting here.
 
Garry Edwards said:
... Knowledge, thought and care trumps gear every time, it's just that using gear that's less than ideal makes the job harder and so needs more knowledge, thought and care.
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This.
Just this^
Read and practice.
You can create stunning results with the most basic gear, but you have to know what you're doing.
 
juggler said:
I hope I didn't imply that was the case; your generosity on these forums demonstrates that selling stuff is far down your list of priorities when posting here.
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No, you didn't imply that and I didn't infer it either, you just have a different viewpoint to mine, which is fine:)
 
aTog said:
To avoid hours of frustration, don't even bother trying a pure white background in a very small space. Gray is a good place to start and perhaps black. If you just want to do portraits the Lastolite backgrounds are great, will pack away when you're done and are very portable.

Working in a small space will always be frustrating. You will always be thinking, "if only I had just another few feet", but it is also possible to achieve good results.

Most of all, have fun! Best of luck :)
Click to expand...
I've bored people with this story before, but it's true and I think it's relevant too, so I'll carry on boring...

Years ago, I ran the lighting forum on what was probably the biggest photography forum there is, www.photo.net.
And each week I wrote a Lighting Theme, explaining and illustrating how to do various different types of lighting. Then, for the rest of that week, members could post their own examples and hopefully learn.
Anyway, there was one particular member, Mike, who became interesting in shooting artistic nudes using "my" approach of creating shadow via rimlighting. His first results were terrible beyond description because he didn't understand the principles, but over the course of a few weeks he kept asking me questions via email and sending me his latest work, and in no time at all his work turned from terrible to outstanding - I just didn't understand how he had progressed so quickly, and as he had told me that he was shooting in a tiny, tiny basement room his progress and work quality was nothing short of amazing.

He lived in New Mexico, I knew nothing about him, as is normal with forums. And then one day I got an email, he was coming to England for a visit, he was doing an American visit to York, which would take nearly 2 hours, could he then come and meet me?
Anyway, we had a good day, had a meal and a few drinks and got to know each other. It turned out that he has a phd in physics, which is the reason why he was able to do so well and learn so quickly - knowledge trumps not just gear but space limitations too:)
 
One of the problems with forums is that there is just so much information to get across in a very short space of time.

I found books like Syl Arena's to be invaluable, especially in the awesome way the information is presented - many authors could learn from Syl :)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedliters-Handbook-Learning-Craft-Speedlites/dp/032171105X

I found more useful to come to forums when I'd read from the experts, but perhaps needed something clarified. Forums can also be most valuable for sourcing the gear AFTER you know what you want.
 
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