Home "Darkroom"

[karmagarda]

Ok, I'm thinking of giving this a crack and looking for advice. Just going to try B&W to start with. Colour is going to be a bit difficult yet. Now, I don't have the facilities to set up a proper darkroom, but I've seen methods where they use a light sensitive bag that you can do the "dark" work inside.

So, as far as I've gathered the equipment I need is fairly straight forward:

- Developing tank that can hold 120 film and is light proof
- Preferably an automatic threading real for a nub nub like me
- Dark bag
- Developer and Fixer chems
- Thermometer

Next, I believe I just need someplace pretty dust free to do all this, my bathroom will be sufficient for now I reckon.

Now, the general method I'm reading on how to do this is:

- In the dark bag, feed the film onto the reel
- Pop the reel into the developing tank and place the spool/top on.
- You can now work in light (from the tutorials I've read).
(next steps I need to re-read for temps/timing)
- Put the chem bottles in hot water until they reach x temp
- Add developer to dev tank
- Agitate x times over x period
- Remove developer
- Add fixer to dev tank
- Agitate x times over x period
- Remove fixer
- Wash out dev tank with water
- Remove water
- Remove film and squeegy off excess water
- Hang to dry


Anything I'm missing/overlooking? Or have I misread tutorials and insanely wrong in the above ? Tips/advice would be much appreciated!

Finally, anyone know of places to buy the above equipment?

 

[karmagarda]

Oh, and the question I meant to ask but forgot! Anyone know of places to buy the above equipment?

 

[Steve Smith]

You seem to have the idea of it. Have a read of Ilford's advice here: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/download.asp?n=386

And some more stuff here: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=9

From your list of processes, I would add a rinse step between pouring out the developer and pouring in the fixer and I wouldn't use a squeegee to dry the film as if it picks up a bit of grit, it can scratch the film.

Kaiser reels are quite easy to load as they hve large guide tabs on them. These can be bought from Silverprint: http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=1085


Steve.

 

[Phillip Mac]

In the good old days I used a drop of washing up liquid in te last couple of washes this rel^placed the squeegy as it allowed the liqid to run of the film, only one drop though.
As to finding the right temp ,try it before as it's a bit of an art to get it dead right.
Phillip

 

[karmagarda]

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. Good thinking on the squeegee (now with proper spelling!) and using washing up liquid instead.

And cheers for the site link, that seems to have most of what I will need! Only thing I didn't spot a dark bag though, so will have to hunt around for one of those.

Ok, maybe a slightly revised set of steps to keep track of myself:

- In the dark bag, feed the film onto the reel
- Pop the reel into the developing tank and place the spool/top on.
- You can now work in light (from the tutorials I've read).
(next steps I need to re-read for temps/timing)
- Put the chem bottles in hot water until they reach x temp
- Add developer to dev tank
- Agitate x times over x period
- Remove developer
- Wash out dev tank with water
- Add fixer to dev tank
- Agitate x times over x period
- Remove fixer
- Wash out dev tank with water & drop of washing up liquid
- Remove water
- Remove film
- Hang to dry

 

[RaglanSurf]

Another shout for Silverprint, they will have everything you need. There are also many bargains to be had on ebay, loads of people selling everything from single dev tanks to full darkroom kits. You don't say where you're based but delivery costs can be quite high for chemicals from Silverprint, RK Photographic, Firstcall etc. unless you're spending a lot of cash so collection can save you a few bob.

 

[karmagarda]

Another shout for Silverprint, they will have everything you need. There are also many bargains to be had on ebay, loads of people selling everything from single dev tanks to full darkroom kits. You don't say where you're based but delivery costs can be quite high for chemicals from Silverprint, RK Photographic, Firstcall etc. unless you're spending a lot of cash so collection can save you a few bob.

I'm based in southwest london so I could potentially collect. they are based closish to Waterloo from the looks of the site. Although, by the time I've paid for the train ride, had a coffee or something, I've probably spent the delivery cost

 

[RaglanSurf]

I'm based in southwest london so I could potentially collect. they are based closish to Waterloo from the looks of the site. Although, by the time I've paid for the train ride, had a coffee or something, I've probably spent the delivery cost

Easy walking distance from Waterloo or Southwark tube, just combine it with a day out shooting round the City and pop into Silverprint on the way home. Nice people and there's always something interesting to found in their bargain box

 

[karmagarda]

Easy walking distance from Waterloo or Southwark tube, just combine it with a day out shooting round the City and pop into Silverprint on the way home. Nice people and there's always something interesting to found in their bargain box

Good thinking

 

[TheBigYin]

the PDF link in Steve's message is pretty much bang on, I managed to develop my first BnW film pretty much solely upon the info on there. It's really just a matter of getting the process straight in your head, then going for it. I found that the trickiest part was mixing the chem's up in the first place, and making sure that the temp's were correct. Now for BnW I make sure that the box with all the dev. gear comes out of the store-room a couple of hours early to ensure it's at normal room temp. I then run a sink with water at around 22c (this for processing at 20c standard) and mix up the chem's i'll be using - ilfosol 3 1+9 dev (being a one-shot i've to mix fresh each time) and ilford rapid fix1+4 ( I make up a 500ml bottle from which I draw 300ml for my tank - the fix is re-useable 3-4 times, just give it a bit longer in fix each time). When i've prepared the chemistry, I stick them in the sink to stabilise temperature, and go off to load my film into the dev. tank. I couldn't get on with a dark bag, but fortunately my loft is pretty much light tight (apart from the trapdoor, which a blanket sorts easily.) So, 5-10 minutes later, film loaded to tank I'm ready to do the pour and shake shuffle...

rest of it really is pretty much just following the instructions in that PDF. You may initially want to write a time-sheet out with space for minute-by-minute tally marks (to prove to yourself you've agitated it every minute!) while waiting for the timer to go PING!

 

[karmagarda]

the PDF link in Steve's message is pretty much bang on, I managed to develop my first BnW film pretty much solely upon the info on there. It's really just a matter of getting the process straight in your head, then going for it. I found that the trickiest part was mixing the chem's up in the first place, and making sure that the temp's were correct. Now for BnW I make sure that the box with all the dev. gear comes out of the store-room a couple of hours early to ensure it's at normal room temp. I then run a sink with water at around 22c (this for processing at 20c standard) and mix up the chem's i'll be using - ilfosol 3 1+9 dev (being a one-shot i've to mix fresh each time) and ilford rapid fix1+4 ( I make up a 500ml bottle from which I draw 300ml for my tank - the fix is re-useable 3-4 times, just give it a bit longer in fix each time). When i've prepared the chemistry, I stick them in the sink to stabilise temperature, and go off to load my film into the dev. tank. I couldn't get on with a dark bag, but fortunately my loft is pretty much light tight (apart from the trapdoor, which a blanket sorts easily.) So, 5-10 minutes later, film loaded to tank I'm ready to do the pour and shake shuffle...

rest of it really is pretty much just following the instructions in that PDF. You may initially want to write a time-sheet out with space for minute-by-minute tally marks (to prove to yourself you've agitated it every minute!) while waiting for the timer to go PING!

Just finished reading through the ilford pdf there now, it's an excellent read (Thanks Steve!). Thanks for the tips too BigYin.

I'm gonna try develop my next film (as opposed to the one in the camera... I'm hoping some of the photos are pretty good so would rather not mess it up!). Next roll I'll use up a bit faster just so that I can trail run a home jobbie, and see how the timings work. In the mean time, suppose I'd better get organising some equipment for myself.

Fun times!

 

[Mohain]

Don't forget storage bottles for mixed chemicals and a funnel!

Best to practise loading onto a reel with an old/runined 120 film several times before you process your first film. It can get a bit sweaty in the bag and the sweatier it gets the harder the film is to load

 

[IgorFB]

I'm based in southwest london so I could potentially collect. they are based closish to Waterloo from the looks of the site. Although, by the time I've paid for the train ride, had a coffee or something, I've probably spent the delivery cost

Just out of curiosity, where abouts do you live? First TPer I've seen that is also based in sw London.

 

[karmagarda]

Don't forget storage bottles for mixed chemicals and a funnel!

Best to practise loading onto a reel with an old/runined 120 film several times before you process your first film. It can get a bit sweaty in the bag and the sweatier it gets the harder the film is to load

ohhh yes, storage bottles, forgot about those!

Further question, how easy is it to scan the film to PC/CD? What equipment is involved?

 

[karmagarda]

Just out of curiosity, where abouts do you live? First TPer I've seen that is also based in sw London.

I live in putney You SW too?

 

[MartynK]

Just finished reading through the ilford pdf there now, it's an excellent read (Thanks Steve!). Thanks for the tips too BigYin.

I'm gonna try develop my next film (as opposed to the one in the camera... I'm hoping some of the photos are pretty good so would rather not mess it up!). Next roll I'll use up a bit faster just so that I can trail run a home jobbie, and see how the timings work. In the mean time, suppose I'd better get organising some equipment for myself.

Fun times!

B & W developing is pretty straightforward, and you'll be fine. I started doing this before I hit my teens (a long time ago) and I wasn't any sort of child prodigy! A few practical suggestions,to add to the good advice you've been given.

Practice loading the reel with an old film if you can, in daylight if you like, then in darkness. It's quite easy, but there is a bit of a knack to it. Shoot a good quality, in date, film (FP4?) for your first attempt. That's removes one of the variables, and you can eliminate the film as a possible cause if the results aren't what you were hoping for. Try liquid developers first. They can be a bit easier to mix, although I normally relied on Microphen which is a power. Don't stress too much about the temperature. Get as close as you can and stabilise it, but medium speed B & W film is reasonably forgiving.

 

[IgorFB]

I live in putney You SW too?

Aye, Battersea

 

[karmagarda]

B & W developing is pretty straightforward, and you'll be fine. I started doing this before I hit my teens (a long time ago) and I wasn't any sort of child prodigy! A few practical suggestions,to add to the good advice you've been given.

Practice loading the reel with an old film if you can, in daylight if you like, then in darkness. It's quite easy, but there is a bit of a knack to it. Shoot a good quality, in date, film (FP4?) for your first attempt. That's removes one of the variables, and you can eliminate the film as a possible cause if the results aren't what you were hoping for. Try liquid developers first. They can be a bit easier to mix, although I normally relied on Microphen which is a power. Don't stress too much about the temperature. Get as close as you can and stabilise it, but medium speed B & W film is reasonably forgiving.

Thanks Martyn. I'm shooting medium format so it will all be HP5+. It's a pretty fast film, so not sure if that's more forgiving or less forgiving than medium speed . Also, there's a park, the thames, a jetty/pier close by that has easily 12 shots in it so I'll just spend a film round there and practice on that. I heard liquids are easier to start with alright, so thanks for confirming that for me. Definitely will go liquids first.

The rest will just come with practice I suppose

 

[TheBigYin]

Definitely a second for practicing loading the spool with an old film first - in daylight, then eyes closed, then when it's second nature, in the changing bag. I didn't get on with the changing bag for the reasons mentioned - it all got a bit hot and bothered in there, so I found an alternative...

Have to say, my first home dev'ed film was shot at a bunch of locations, all within a couple of miles of my home, so I would't be mortified if it all went pete tong (though I was using 35mm and a 36x film rather than 120).

It certainly gets easier with practice, I'm now happy that I can go from a camera fresh reel of film to a strip of negs hanging in the shower cubicle within a hour, and without reference to a crib-sheet once. What doesn't diminish - or at least hasn't yet, is the immense sense of self-satisfaction I get when I hold the negs up to the light and see real honest-to-god pictures on there!

 

[karmagarda]

Definitely a second for practicing loading the spool with an old film first - in daylight, then eyes closed, then when it's second nature, in the changing bag. I didn't get on with the changing bag for the reasons mentioned - it all got a bit hot and bothered in there, so I found an alternative...

Have to say, my first home dev'ed film was shot at a bunch of locations, all within a couple of miles of my home, so I would't be mortified if it all went pete tong (though I was using 35mm and a 36x film rather than 120).

It certainly gets easier with practice, I'm now happy that I can go from a camera fresh reel of film to a strip of negs hanging in the shower cubicle within a hour, and without reference to a crib-sheet once. What doesn't diminish - or at least hasn't yet, is the immense sense of self-satisfaction I get when I hold the negs up to the light and see real honest-to-god pictures on there!

Yeah, I think I have a dodgy roll sitting about someplace that I'll have a play with first. Or if not I'll chance my arm on my first one, and if it goes belly up, sure I have a roll to practice on then!

How easy, or what's the setup required to scan films to PC/CD?


Edit: Just remembered, I asked that already! Ah, sure it saves people reading up

 

[MartynK]

Yeah, I think I have a dodgy roll sitting about someplace that I'll have a play with first. Or if not I'll chance my arm on my first one, and if it goes belly up, sure I have a roll to practice on then!

A very positive way of looking at it!

How easy, or what's the setup required to scan films to PC/CD?


Edit: Just remembered, I asked that already! Ah, sure it saves people reading up [/QUOTE]

 

[TheBigYin]

How easy, or what's the setup required to scan films to PC/CD?
]

Budget - try and find a Epson 4490 (probably on fleabay)

Mid Priced - Epson V500 or Canon Canoscan 8800F (around £180)

Expensive - Epson V700/V750 (£400-£500)

or get the labs (if you're having colour dev'ed for you) to dev and scan - probably around a tenner a roll (peak imaging process only 120 £3.75, proc. and scan £14.95) As a tenner a roll, it soon adds up, and pays for a scanner (thst's how I justified mine, anyway!)

 

[karmagarda]

Budget - try and find a Epson 4490 (probably on fleabay)

Mid Priced - Epson V500 or Canon Canoscan 8800F (around £180)

Expensive - Epson V700/V750 (£400-£500)

or get the labs (if you're having colour dev'ed for you) to dev and scan - probably around a tenner a roll (peak imaging process only 120 £3.75, proc. and scan £14.95) As a tenner a roll, it soon adds up, and pays for a scanner (thst's how I justified mine, anyway!)

Actually, here's a good word for Jessops for a change (they've been getting a beating round here lately!), had a quote from them: £2 per CD scanned. Now, if I heard the guy right, that was per CD, so multiple rolls on the same CD still = £2. I need to go back and confirm though.

So that's either 100 cds or (if I misheard what they said) 100 rolls to go through to in order to justify a mid priced scanner. I'll have to think about that one!


Edit: That's £2 just for scan. They quoted me £4 per roll develop.

 

[TheBigYin]

Actually, here's a good word for Jessops for a change (they've been getting a beating round here lately!), had a quote from them: £2 per CD scanned. Now, if I heard the guy right, that was per CD, so multiple rolls on the same CD still = £2. I need to go back and confirm though.

So that's either 100 cds or (if I misheard what they said) 100 rolls to go through to in order to justify a mid priced scanner. I'll have to think about that one!


Edit: That's £2 just for scan. They quoted me £4 per roll develop.

Check that that's for the 120, rather than 35mm as well - 35mm is usually quite cheap to get scaned - I think some of the new minilab systems actually scan negs and output prints on same basis as digital prints rather than traditional "wet-prints" so turning out a cd is a sort of by-product rather than an additional process... If it is for the 120 then thats a good price, and for Jessops.

Edit: also - check te resolution they're scanning at - most cheap scan deals tend to be suitable for printing at 6x4" (again i'm taking 35mm) so probably 1800x1200 px- fine for posting on here, but not the best for exhibition quality prints - understandable I suppose - handing out 7200x7200px 120 scans could put a crimp in your enlargement print sales.

 

[karmagarda]

Check that that's for the 120, rather than 35mm as well - 35mm is usually quite cheap to get scaned - I think some of the new minilab systems actually scan negs and output prints on same basis as digital prints rather than traditional "wet-prints" so turning out a cd is a sort of by-product rather than an additional process... If it is for the 120 then thats a good price, and for Jessops.

I'll have to double check, but I did mention several times:

"That's for 120 right?"
"And we're talking medium format here yeah?"
"Not 35mm yeah? 120?"

So if he gave me a quote for 35mm I might go back and slap him

 

[Carl V]

What doesn't diminish - or at least hasn't yet, is the immense sense of self-satisfaction I get when I hold the negs up to the light and see real honest-to-god pictures on there!

I couldn't agree more. I don't think that feeling of satisfaction ever goes away, even after having done it for many years. It's the same with printing - seeing your image slowly appearing before your eyes in the developing tray.

I have just been reading through this thread, and there isn't really anything I can add to the excellent advice already given. All I'll say is just keep at it, and don't get disillusioned if things don't go too well at the beginning. I think you'll find you enjoy doing your own processing. The Ilford fact sheets you were linked to are a very good source of reference.

 

[karmagarda]

I couldn't agree more. I don't think that feeling of satisfaction ever goes away, even after having done it for many years. It's the same with printing - seeing your image slowly appearing before your eyes in the developing tray.

I have just been reading through this thread, and there isn't really anything I can add to the excellent advice already given. All I'll say is just keep at it, and don't get disillusioned if things don't go too well at the beginning. I think you'll find you enjoy doing your own processing. The Ilford fact sheets you were linked to are a very good source of reference.

Thanks Carl. If anything I'm getting more excited the more I think about it. And sure if it all messes up, I'll just keep at it. The though of developing all my own photos sounds extremely satisfying!

 

[MartynK]

I'm not any sort of expert on scanning, but do you intend to wet print from the negatives, with the scans as an electronic archive, or do you intend to post process them digitally for printing? Most "develop and scan" offers are low resolution, for people who just want to bang out postcard sized prints at home, and high resolution scans can get expensive, I think.

My only experience of this was a couple of years ago, when there was an event featuring F1 cars scurrying around the roads in the Sandton CBD (South Africa). I was doing some consultancy for a law firm and they asked me if I could shoot some photographs - nothing to do with work, just for fun - for them from their balcony, right above the start/finish line. I didn't have a long lens for my DSLR, so I used my F2 and a telephoto. They turned out well and the law firm decided that they wanted to scan them for some reason, to get digital images with enough resolution for A4 or A3 prints, IIRC. Cost a packet, but law firms have lots of money!

 

[PaulCowan]

You want to find out what resolution Jessops scan at. There is no point in shooting medium format and then having it scanned to give a 2MP file.

I would vote for the Epson v500. It is quite cheap but it is easy to use and gives excellent results. I usually scan my files to between 20MP (6x4.5) and 40MP (6x9) for ISO 400 colour film, and then reduce them to whatever size produces a result that I consider acceptable - usually between about 6 and 12MP. I shoot mostly with folding cameras which limits the resolution a bit, but I've got acceptable 17MP scans from my Pentacon Six, which were good enough to pass inspection by Alamy and Getty Images.

 

[RaglanSurf]

Budget - try and find a Epson 4490 (probably on fleabay)

Mid Priced - Epson V500 or Canon Canoscan 8800F (around £180)

Expensive - Epson V700/V750 (£400-£500)

or mucho expensive a Nikon Coolscan 9000

 

[MartynK]

There might be a better, and less expensive, way into this. Shoot a few rolls, develop them and decide if you're satisfied with the negatives (there's no point scanning poor negatives, the results will be misleading), then get them scanned by the local processing station. Load the images into your computer, play around with post processing, print at your preferred size and see what you think. Pick a couple of the best shots and get them professionally scanned, follow the same process and compare the results with the budget scans. This should give you a better idea if you want to go the scanning route, and what sort of scanner you're going to need for DIY.

 

[karmagarda]

I'm not any sort of expert on scanning, but do you intend to wet print from the negatives, with the scans as an electronic archive, or do you intend to post process them digitally for printing? Most "develop and scan" offers are low resolution, for people who just want to bang out postcard sized prints at home, and high resolution scans can get expensive, I think.

My only experience of this was a couple of years ago, when there was an event featuring F1 cars scurrying around the roads in the Sandton CBD (South Africa). I was doing some consultancy for a law firm and they asked me if I could shoot some photographs - nothing to do with work, just for fun - for them from their balcony, right above the start/finish line. I didn't have a long lens for my DSLR, so I used my F2 and a telephoto. They turned out well and the law firm decided that they wanted to scan them for some reason, to get digital images with enough resolution for A4 or A3 prints, IIRC. Cost a packet, but law firms have lots of money!

You want to find out what resolution Jessops scan at. There is no point in shooting medium format and then having it scanned to give a 2MP file.

I would vote for the Epson v500. It is quite cheap but it is easy to use and gives excellent results. I usually scan my files to between 20MP (6x4.5) and 40MP (6x9) for ISO 400 colour film, and then reduce them to whatever size produces a result that I consider acceptable - usually between about 6 and 12MP. I shoot mostly with folding cameras which limits the resolution a bit, but I've got acceptable 17MP scans from my Pentacon Six, which were good enough to pass inspection by Alamy and Getty Images.

I don't intend to wet print. Just scan to CD/PC. But I would like somewhat decent quality scans. So that's a good point about the quality of scans. If it's going to be a bad quality then I might be better off geting a mid ranged and doing it myself!

or mucho expensive a Nikon Coolscan 9000

I'm trying to save for a Nikon D300, so I think that's a tad out of my reach just yet!

There might be a better, and less expensive, way into this. Shoot a few rolls, develop them and decide if you're satisfied with the negatives (there's no point scanning poor negatives, the results will be misleading), then get them scanned by the local processing station. Load the images into your computer, play around with post processing, print at your preferred size and see what you think. Pick a couple of the best shots and get them professionally scanned, follow the same process and compare the results with the budget scans. This should give you a better idea if you want to go the scanning route, and what sort of scanner you're going to need for DIY.

That's an excellent idea. Definitely will give this a go. I must find out what type of scanners these "budget" guys use too as it might be a useful insight into what sort of price range of scanner I'm looking at as well.

 

[karmagarda]

Well, take 1 is just complete... and it went way better than expected! But it wasn't without drama .

My process was refined to this:


1. Fill sink with water.
2. Monitor temperatures to get as close to 20 degrees as possible.
3. Prepare chemicals
4. Realise I forgot to buy storage containers [insert swear words here]
5. Hide in the wardrobe with film and dev tank
6. Fiddle around trying to find start of film
7. Feed start of film into spindal
8. Hit end of paper... and think... CRAP! I've been feeding the paper, not the film [insert swear words here] :bang:
9. Open spindal, take "paper" out and search for film not paper...
10. Realise that I WAS actually loading the film and not paper :nuts:
11. Fiddle with spindal to put it together again
12. Feed film AGAIN
13. Close dev tank.

Development as per previous posts. I didn't bother with a darkbag because our wardrobe is pitch black. I had pretested this by sitting in it for a while .

Anyway, I can see some lovely photos hanging to dry in my shower as we speak! Chuffed with myself.

Thanks again for all the tips and advice folks. Much appreciated

 

[karmagarda]

First photo on the film, and probably the best of the bunch too:

Shot the film with a D300 and just re-B&W & inverted it.

 

[Ambermile]

Looking good, a wee contrast kick and you're off

Arthur

 

[karmagarda]

Wow... now why didn't that occur to me!

This is a bit better alright:

 

[Ambermile]

Yup - getting there! I find things go better at this stage if the image is greyscale rather than RGB, makes the adjusting easier when there're no colours to get in the way.

Arthur

 

[karmagarda]

Yup - getting there! I find things go better at this stage if the image is greyscale rather than RGB, makes the adjusting easier when there're no colours to get in the way.

Arthur

Yeah, same here. I shot this using my D300 so first thing I did was set it to greyscale mode. I usually bump the contrast on B&W conversions from digital... not sure why it didn't occur to me to do the same from a film shot

 

[Ambermile]

Ah - but it is still colour, just black and white colour - still RGB though. I mean convert the image to greyscale before you work on it.


Arthur

 

[TheBigYin]

If you've got that Image by just shooting the backlit neg, then It'd be pretty impressive when you throw it through a scanner