Holiday Changes Grrr! (Rant) Outcome

beyond the blue

beyond the blue

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Last year I booked my retirement holiday to Turkey with Thomas Cook 5star all-inclusive (the works) with nice daytime flight times. I have just had an email to say they have changed the flight times to the middle of the night both outbound and return, it had the usual apology but no more than that. Now I am not the type to start asking for compensation or anything like that but I feel sure that if the holiday was originally offered with these flight times it would have been cheaper. I would imagine that they have not sold as many holidays to Turkey this year and finished up joining together with other operators and bunged us all on the same cheapest flight in the middle of the soddin night. and they will be rubbing their hands.:mad:
 
No harm in asking. What if you had booked something at your destination based on your flight times?
 
It's probably buried in the signed Ts & Cs that they can do it. :(
 
I agree their T&Cs probably cover them but definitely worth a try, especially as you can genuinely say your wife will have to change her plans because of their action.
Unless your holiday is imminent(when a short notice change could be unavoidable) I think you are pretty much correct in your analysis of the situation, particularly as they have just apologised but not given a reason.

Although you have said you are not the type to ask for compensation the changes to the flights will inconvenience you. Apart from, as you say, you chose 'nice daytime flights', getting to the airport here for the middle of the night could be more costly - for a daytime flight you might have used a train or had someone drop you off; at night it might have to be a taxi. When you arrive are you able to get into your hotel rooms earlier than originally planned (I assume the change of flights has not shortened your stay) or are you going to have to hang around somewhere until later in the day?

If you do not get any joy, you could contact one of the consumer programmes, eg Radio 4's Money Box. Often a holiday company that is reluctant to do anything about a problem suddenly has a change of heart when the problem is aired on national radio.

Dave
 
I had to cancel a holiday once. The travel agent tried to charge me an extra 20% on top of the 100% I had already paid. How I laughed.
 
Our fight times have been put back a couple of hours each way. Means that we'll be heading west after sunset rather than straight into the sunset and will have time for a "last supper" before heading for the airport on the way back.
 
PaulF said:
By 'middle of the night' is this still on the same date? ie you now have an earlier flight.
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Outbound flight is 9hrs later it leaves on the same day but arrives the day after. Return flight is 8 hour later, again leaves on the same day (just) and arrives the following day. The bad bit is we have to vacate the room at 12noon and hang around for 10 hours. As my first post said I'm not usually the complaining type, but will admit to getting a bit annoyed now. I am due to pay the balance next week so might bend their ear a bit.
 
As the link Paul gave suggests the tour operators have it pretty much sown up, but there might be an angle and it is still worth a try.

Imagine what the tour operator would say if you emailed them and said you wanted to change your flights?

Good luck

Dave
 
beyond the blue said:
Outbound flight is 9hrs later it leaves on the same day but arrives the day after. Return flight is 8 hour later, again leaves on the same day (just) and arrives the following day. The bad bit is we have to vacate the room at 12noon and hang around for 10 hours. As my first post said I'm not usually the complaining type, but will admit to getting a bit annoyed now. I am due to pay the balance next week so might bend their ear a bit.
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It is that, that I hate. For me it would be enough reason to cancel it all. It is no longer the holiday you booked carefully to avoid exactly such situations. It is supposed to be nice and relaxing.
 
What did the terms and conditions say?

If the holiday is actually provided by Thomas Cook then their conditions state that they can change your flight times by up to +/- 12 hours without compensation.
https://www.thomascook.com/ota/pdf/Booking_Conditions_and_Holiday_Information.pdf

If it's provided by another operator but just booked through Thomas Cook then it might be different.

Personally I think this 12-hour rule should be challenged under the unfair consumer contracts legislation. It's obvious that a holiday with flights in the middle of the night is completely different to a holiday with flights in the middle of the day, and you'd expect it to be significantly cheaper, so the idea that they could switch you from one to the other without compensation is palpably unfair.

The Office Of Fair Trading, as was, looked into package holiday contracts in 2004 and published guidance on what they considered to be unfair terms.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284435/oft668.pdf
Your rights when the operator makes changes before departure are addressed on page 13 and following.

The Thomas Cook booking conditions are narrowly compliant with this, as you'd expect. They allow flight times to be changed by up to 12 hours. So on the face of it this doesn't give you much comfort. However there a couple of angles which I think are worth pursuing.
  1. The OFT guidance points out (page 15) that exhaustive lists of "significant" changes are vulnerable to be deemed as unfair, because "some alterations, though not generally considered fundamental by some consumers, may be important to others". And Thomas Cook do not claim that their list of "significant" changes is exhaustive: they say that the changes which they consider significant include change of airport, change of destination, change of timing by more than 12 hours, etc. So I think that gives you scope to argue that the timing changes are very significant to you, taking into account the special nature of the holiday etc.
  2. The OFT recommend (page 17) that "terms providing for compensation, even if they have a scale as a yardstick, should allow for payments that reflect the actual loss of the consumer". Thomas Cook's terms provide for the tabulated compensation amounts to be increased "in appropriate circumstances".
So I think that's your approach. Write to them, and politely point out the OFT guidance that the definition of "significant" change and the amount of compensation payable can be flexible. Explain the special nature of your holiday and the inconvenience and additional cost which this would impose on you, and ask them to do the decent thing.

Good luck!


Disclosure: I am not a lawyer. However last month I successfully obtained £1500 compensation from a double glazing firm after a botched installation, by following this exact approach. They initially denied liability until I politely pointed out that the relevant OFT guidance suggested otherwise. No need to make any threats or anything: they quickly came round to my way of seeing the issue!


EDIT: The regulations governing the industry are the Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package
Tours Regulations 1992.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3288/contents/made
These do not enshrine the 12-hour timing change rule. They simply require that "significant alterations to essential terms" must be notified to customers ASAP and must allow customers to cancel without penalty. So there is clearly scope for Thomas Cook to interpret "significant" in a more flexible way.
 
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StewartR said:
Personally I think this 12-hour rule should be challenged under the unfair consumer contracts legislation. It's obvious that a holiday with flights in the middle of the night is completely different to a holiday with flights in the middle of the day, and you'd expect it to be significantly cheaper, so the idea that they could switch you from one to the other without compensation is palpably unfair.
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I think that's a really good point. After all, they charge extra for flights at more convenient times of day.

If a night time flight costs £100 and a day time flight costs £150 then the absolute minimum compensation should be £50 if they move you from day to night. Otherwise they could just sell day flights and then swap them all to a night flight and pocket the difference. A fair amount might be the current cost to rebook the daytime flight.
 
It is a good reminder why I've only twice taken a package holiday when I see those terms and conditions :eek:
 
Outcome. Today was the last day to pay the balance. I went into the agents ( I know the lady quite well which made it a bit easier) and told her I wasn't happy about the flight changes and wanted some kind of compensation, if I get one I will pay the balance, if I don't I will probably cancel, even if it means losing the deposit. She rang the company and was told there was no compensation owing to me. I left it with her while I did some other shopping and returned later to find that they were willing to give me £80 as a good will reduction but it would have to show on the invoice as "good will" and not compensation. So with that I paid the balance. Thanks for listening to my rant.
 
Well done
 
A fair result, I think.
 
I'm glad they gave you their good will gesture and that you are happy with it....I thank you for the reminder on the terms and conditions, just goes to show like with the other thread on car rentals that a full package holiday is not in the benefit of the traveller in my opinion.
 
There was something about this on Radio 4's "You and Yours" this week. It appears that, if you come across as someone who'll take the matter to the small claims court, they'll cave in to avoid the bad publicity. Your travel agent might have told them you're just the type to do that!

:exit:
 
Good will is a cop out - they're compensating you without admitting it since the admission would open the floodgates for all who have relatively minor changes made to their holidays to claim.
 
dejongj said:
I'm glad they gave you their good will gesture and that you are happy with it....I thank you for the reminder on the terms and conditions, just goes to show like with the other thread on car rentals that a full package holiday is not in the benefit of the traveller in my opinion.
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Does anything operate in favour of anything other than the business doing the selling?
 
viv1969 said:
Does anything operate in favour of anything other than the business doing the selling?
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Nope - point was that when you do it yourself you have more control. It really isn't hard to select your own flights, hotel/villa and car.
 
dejongj said:
Nope - point was that when you do it yourself you have more control. It really isn't hard to select your own flights, hotel/villa and car.
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Oh I agree.
I've never done a package holiday.
 
viv1969 said:
Oh I agree.
I've never done a package holiday.
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Last time I did it, Mallorca, they even had the nerve to tell me where I had to sit (pool side was for regulars who come there year on year, even though about 12 tables were empty we weren't allowed to sit there for breakfast), and what to wear (long trousers in the evening; lots of men in that old persons shade of grey with long trousers, sandals, socks and vests....yet a pair of chino shorts and a polo shirt (at least has a collar) wasn't suitable for their all-inclusive restaurant). And then there was the bus journey from the airport. Oh never ever again.
 
dejongj said:
Last time I did it, Mallorca, they even had the nerve to tell me where I had to sit (pool side was for regulars who come there year on year, even though about 12 tables were empty we weren't allowed to sit there for breakfast), and what to wear (long trousers in the evening; lots of men in that old persons shade of grey with long trousers, sandals, socks and vests....yet a pair of chino shorts and a polo shirt (at least has a collar) wasn't suitable for their all-inclusive restaurant). And then there was the bus journey from the airport. Oh never ever again.
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Accommodation-wise, I've only ever booked the first night.
After that it's drive and wing it....I love it.
 
We've been package holidayers for years. Works well for our needs.
 
dejongj said:
Nope - point was that when you do it yourself you have more control. It really isn't hard to select your own flights, hotel/villa and car.
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I have been doing my own holidays for donkey's years, I usually book all the hotels myself but book most of the flights with this agent. This time she asked if she could do everything as a package and I stupidly let her. Never again.
 
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