HND course

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Steve said:
This is the best reply I have ever read to address that criticism. Do you mind if I use this when I get into another one of those discussions with my in-laws?
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Put it on a tee shirt.

Although thinking about it, it may be a bit long...
 
simon ess said:
Another thing you can do, and I've done this, show them Gustav Klimt's early work for them to ooh and aah over.

Once his skills are accepted, show them his later work and ask why they think he did that.

Certainly makes 'em think.
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Look as LS lowry's early academic work and it is hard to understand how he got from there to Matchstick men. Picasso also had an academic background.

Artists go their own way, some become so successful that they can afford not to care how many can understand, others starve.

In the USA Fine Art photographers can make a good living. We are miles behind them. We do not see value in a photo print.
 
There is quite a difference in types of analysis which is where the farty comes into it. everyone understands art, that its beauty.

Pookeyhead said:
What's wrong with analysing a film? Someone has to be critical or we'll be awash with facile, meaningless flim flam on TV or in the Cinema.. oh.. hang on...

LOL

Your reaction is just typical of someone who doesn't understand art. Fine... but that doesn't mean you are right. I don't understand football either. I sit and listen to post match commentary and think "What the hell do find to talk about for so long... they kicked a ball around"... but you know what? I don't try to discredit them for that... it's ME that's not getting it... so I'll quite honestly say that that I just don't get it instead of criticising football.

Try it sometime.
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Terrywoodenpic said:
In the USA Fine Art photographers can make a good living. We are miles behind them. We do not see value in a photo print.
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I know quite a lot of fine art photographers that make a good living.


POAH said:
There is quite a difference in types of analysis which is where the farty comes into it. everyone understands art, that its beauty.
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Really. Art is Beauty? That all you got? So if it's not beautiful it's not art? I think you should go away and think about what you just said. Come back when you've realised your mistake.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I know quite a lot of fine art photographers that make a good living.

I do not know of any photographer with an income equal to an artist of equivalent fame in this country. Or to a fine art photographer in the USA




Really. Art is Beauty? That all you got? So if it's not beautiful it's not art? I think you should go away and think about what you just said. Come back when you've realised your mistake.
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Think Goya , Bosch, hurst .... think horror
 
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Heheheheh.

Anonymous Bosch the secret Nazi and Alf Brex Durex, The sensitized German wood cutter. always put a pin hole in every hundreth of his additions.

I like Beauty and fakery. That's the good side of photography. does anyone really want to shoot ugly every day people.... see them in the street.

Dear Helmut and Bob Carlos......R.I.P. Not a size 16 in sight.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Think Goya , Bosch, hurst .... think horror
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Not sure why you're typing this in reply to me.. I'm agreeing with you. I read POAH's post as meaning only beautiful things can be art... which is clearly absurd.

I suspect that POAH made a typing mistake actually, hence the confusion. I think he meant to say "That's it's beauty"... not "That it's beauty".. I know POAH can troll like the best of them, but he's not actually stupid. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt any way.

However... that still leaves us with his statement (corrected)..

POAH said:
everyone understands art, that's its beauty.
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Which I would argue that no, not everyone understands art at all.. clearly.
 
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Don't know what this thread has escalated into, BUT my experience of the HND course is beginning to change, rapidly!

Almost 4 assignments in, I've not picked up ANYTHING about photography I haven't already heard of and there aren't classes or teaching on the techniques I wanted to pick up on. When we did Portraiture I would of expected to spend a lot of time learning to use studio flash & get to grips with OCF too. Not the case, most of the time was spent researching Art movements from the Renaissance etc, picking one and recreating it & a contemporary version.

When we did Scapes in B&W film, I was loving the darkroom as it was a new experience to me. Would of like to of had in-depth learning on the use of filters & get the general gist of hyperfocal focusing.

As for workbooks - well I tend to spend more time behind a camera (Scout n' About) than I do behind a pen!
Rant over I guess
 
Pookeyhead said:
What's wrong with analysing a film? Someone has to be critical or we'll be awash with facile, meaningless flim flam on TV or in the Cinema.. oh.. hang on...

LOL

Your reaction is just typical of someone who doesn't understand art. Fine... but that doesn't mean you are right. I don't understand football either. I sit and listen to post match commentary and think "What the hell do find to talk about for so long... they kicked a ball around"... but you know what? I don't try to discredit them for that... it's ME that's not getting it... so I'll quite honestly say that that I just don't get it instead of criticising football.

Try it sometime.
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There is nothing wrong with analysing a film, however the level that people go to is where the "arty farty" stuff comes from. I put films in to 2 categories; movies and films. Die Hard 4.0 is a classic example of an American movie, explosions, guns and exaggerated action scenes. I do not expect to have to listen to 2 media students spend nearly an hour talking about how Bruce Willis's is a classic example of man's struggle in the modern world.

Analysis is fine, speaking for the sake of speaking is what annoys me.
 
Scout n' About said:
Don't know what this thread has escalated into, BUT my experience of the HND course is beginning to change, rapidly!

Almost 4 assignments in, I've not picked up ANYTHING about photography I haven't already heard of and there aren't classes or teaching on the techniques I wanted to pick up on. When we did Portraiture I would of expected to spend a lot of time learning to use studio flash & get to grips with OCF too. Not the case, most of the time was spent researching Art movements from the Renaissance etc, picking one and recreating it & a contemporary version.

When we did Scapes in B&W film, I was loving the darkroom as it was a new experience to me. Would of like to of had in-depth learning on the use of filters & get the general gist of hyperfocal focusing.

As for workbooks - well I tend to spend more time behind a camera (Scout n' About) than I do behind a pen!
Rant over I guess
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That's a shame. I know of some great HND courses. Yours still might be.. it just may not be for you.

I'm not completely defending your course... as I can't, but have you considered that the act of re-creating the lighting found in a Carravagio or a Rembrandt would have actually taught you a great deal? If you sat through a 2 hour demonstration and practice session of studio lighting, you'd probably be happy as a student because you're doing studio lighting but unless you practice it, it's all for nothing. Recreating lighting from another piece of work is actually a fantastic way to learn how to use lighting when you're starting out. I'm assuming at some point there was a demonstration of how to use the studio lighting? I'm pretty sure they didn't just give a lecture on classic painters, and say "There you go... some lights in there.. get on with it". The idea is you practice. Did you? How many hours have you spent practising in your studio? I could spend hours teaching you to ride a bike with practical demonstration, but unless you practice it yourself.. a lot.. you'll never be able to ride a bike.

As for workbooks... that's a mistake though. They're incredibly useful. I still use a sketchbook/Log book/Work book to this day. How else can you plan your shots? You can't get all your images by walking around. If you shoot sport/press, street or documentary, weddings etc. maybe, but anything else you you need to be planning your shots, analysing them post shoot, developing ways to move your work forward. Every professional I know, at some level or another uses a sketch book to develop ideas. All creatives do, no matter if they are a writer, painter, photographer, film maker... makes no difference. You should be recording your inspiration, thoughts, and analysis of your work, and that of others.

There should also be some pretty robust business modules on you course too, and I hope you engage with those. You'll be a freelance.. self-employed. You need insight into the industry, and entrepreneurial skills, and people skills... your course should have a industry related module. Pay attention to that... do not think "this is all business stuff.. what's this got to do with photography". If you do... you'll have missed a vital part of your course.

Sounds to me like what you were expecting was training... not education. There's a massive difference.


Darkroom stuff is always great. I'll be teaching second years wet plate collodion today... woohooo!! My fingers will be black from silver nitrate by 4pm. Proper photography :)
 
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I learned about using the studio during NQ and HNC. At HND level we were expected to be able to use the studio and OCF ourselves and explore our creativity. Workbooks are definitely a good resource, my graded unit workbook is invaluable to me.
 
I am Starting HND in September 2013. I have read with interest most of the pages on this thread. I was looking to see what the two year course involves. I have read that the local college will define the structure apart from some statutory subjects. Reading the comments has opened my eyes.....there is definitely a niche in the market.... I will persue this for starters, because I know what I am doing within my limitations....as they expand then so will the tangents and ideas and contacts...

Thank you all
Regwood.
 
Hi

Scout n' About, I had similar expectations that technical skills in lighting, composition and how to use the equipment would make up a large part of the course. As your finding there is far more emphasis on theory and contextulisation. With the exception of photoshop sessions I felt the course severely lacked practical skill building, however there were exceptions, the dark room modules was taught by one of the most enthusiastic tutors I have ever met. (Unfortunately it was not something I was interested in, my problem not theirs.).
Our course had 9 HND and 2 HNC students and they were often the greatest source of practical knowledge, sharing tips, where to find good deals, how to resolve issues etc.
I have just finished the course, 2 years full time and am now setting up in business.
At some point you will probably do a professional practice module (or similar), this for myself provided a lot of resources and advise in who to contact about grants and business support. If your going on to top up to a degree bare in mind what your going to do afterwards, if your going to do commercial work start planning now, build contacts, sort out a web site, research suppliers and work out costs etc, boring I know, but essential in the long term.
If your interested in portraiture, try working with other college depts, I did a lot of work with the Hair & Beauty and Performing Arts depts at Llandrillo College where I studied.
Apologies for the ramble
 
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