Hit and run by a cyclist! What can we do?

[boyfalldown]

This may well be very similar to the article which Graham referred to.

Thank you for that.

In 2017, 3 people were killed after being hit by a bicycle, and 531 hit in total. In the same year, 467 people were killed by motor vehicles and 23,805 hit in total.

I've seen this argument used a lot. Do you think that the 3 deaths should go unremarked because a far greater number are killed by motor vehicles?

 

[Gremlin]

I've seen this argument used a lot. Do you think that the 3 deaths should go unremarked because a far greater number are killed by motor vehicles?

Perhaps an addition to the equation should be how many bicycles there are compared to motor vehicles and how many miles are covered
by both ?

 

[boyfalldown]

Perhaps an addition to the equation should be how many bicycles there are compared to motor vehicles and how many miles are covered
by both ?

Probably, I suspect when push comes to shove, even if you compared it using deaths/injuries per mile, then cycling would probably come out safer. It'd be interesting to see though. I do think those hit by bikes is probably woefully under reported. Simply cause I guess people can't be arsed to report it

 

[ancient_mariner]

I do think those hit by bikes is probably woefully under reported. Simply cause I guess people can't be arsed to report it

Very likely. A clot rode into my wife while we were walking on a public footpath in Cambridge around 15 years ago, and it would never have occurred to us to report it - it was just an incompetent on a bike they couldn't control, and no serious damage was done. Of course where no damage is done then one might ask why it would be useful to report the incident, other than taking an ISO9001 non-conformance style approach to life.

 

[DemiLion]

Very likely. A clot rode into my wife while we were walking on a public footpath in Cambridge around 15 years ago...

If you haven't had a bike run you down/ run into you in Cambridge, then you've never really been there!

 

[boyfalldown]

If you haven't had a bike run you down/ run into you in Cambridge, then you've never really been there!

Equally true in Richmond Park Double points if the cyclist is on a pedestrian only footpath

 

[Fuji Dave]

If you haven't had a bike run you down/ run into you in Cambridge, then you've never really been there!

Same here in Brighton and Hove, they even spent millions to make cycle paths only but the fools hardly use them.

 

[nandbytes]

If you haven't had a bike run you down/ run into you in Cambridge, then you've never really been there!

To be fair there is a lack of cycle lanes or they are very dangerous with vehicles constantly crossing over them to turn.

 

[gman]

To be fair there is a lack of cycle lanes or they are very dangerous with vehicles constantly crossing over them to turn.

I would gladly welcome more cycle lanes or paths because I can understand the frustration when stuck behind the cyclist who likes to bumble along. Then, after being stuck far too long, comes either a dangerously close pass or a full out into oncoming traffic sprint. Introduce the inevitable Grand Canyon of a pothole whilst making your pass and you have to make a choice....

 

[nandbytes]

I would gladly welcome more cycle lanes or paths because I can understand the frustration when stuck behind the cyclist who likes to bumble along. Then, after being stuck far too long, comes either a dangerously close pass or a full out into oncoming traffic sprint. Introduce the inevitable Grand Canyon of a pothole whilst making your pass and you have to make a choice....

I normally don't take the risk. The 5-10 minutes I might save isn't worth the risk should things go wrong.

In Cambridge there are cycle lanes in places but sometimes its either in middle of the road where cars/buses are crossing over or its on a narrow road where cars have to drive over. And not mention dark unlit national speed limit roads.

 

[Pound Coin]

Perhaps an addition to the equation should be how many bicycles there are compared to motor vehicles and how many miles are covered
by both ?

Ah, adding bits to the equation.

Let’s add the thousands of extra deaths caused by motor vehicle pollution, the environmental damage (oil, other fluids, brake dust, tyre crumbs), the health disbenefits of driving (fatties with diabetes, heart disease, etc.), the monstrous waste of world resource that is a Vanity Tank carrying one person, then factor in the health benefits of cycling (cardiovascular fitness, weight loss etc.) and the social benefits (connected with environment, transport on a human scale etc.)

There’s a nasty anti-cycling culture in this country that is completely out of proportion.

 

[andya700]

Thank you for that.




I've seen this argument used a lot. Do you think that the 3 deaths should go unremarked because a far greater number are killed by motor vehicles?

You and I know that a death caused by a cyclist NEVER goes "unremarked", it always makes the front page on a national level.
When was the last time a pedestrian being killed by a car made the national news - BBC etc, apart from terrorist attacks?
The ratio of deaths caused by cars is 177 times more than bicycles.

 

[boyfalldown]

You and I know that a death caused by a cyclist NEVER goes "unremarked", it always makes the front page on a national level.
When was the last time a pedestrian being killed by a car made the national news - BBC etc, apart from terrorist attacks?
The ratio of deaths caused by cars is 177 times more thasn bicycles.

What is the comparative miles travelled in cars?

The last time I remember was early September

 

[nandbytes]

You and I know that a death caused by a cyclist NEVER goes "unremarked", it always makes the front page on a national level.
When was the last time a pedestrian being killed by a car made the national news - BBC etc, apart from terrorist attacks?
The ratio of deaths caused by cars is 177 times more thasn bicycles.

There aren't enough front pages to make at all the motor accident deaths front page. In fact there would be nothing but the car accidents in news if they had to cover all of those.
Not the case with cycles. It's not normal or expected for them to cause deaths. So it's more sensational and makes front page.
All this has nothing to do with how law should deal with cyclist and their offenses.

 

[andya700]

There aren't enough front pages to make at all the motor accident deaths front page. In fact there would be nothing but the car accidents in news if they had to cover all of those.
Not the case with cycles. It's not normal or expected for them to cause deaths. So it's more sensational and makes front page.
All this has nothing to do with how law should deal with cyclist and their offenses.

That should be "offences" with a "c" and "cyclists" - pluraL
The only offence in this case - which probably, currently is not an offence - was the cyclist leaving the scene. The accident was 100% caused by the pedestrian.

 

[boyfalldown]

That should be "offences" with a "c" and "cyclists" - pluraL
The only offence in this case - which probably, currently is not an offence - was the cyclist leaving the scene. The accident was 100% caused by the pedestrian.

Whilst he didn’t do anything illegal and it certainly wasn’t his fault he’s still a knob to leave a badly injured child in the road following an accident. Don’t you agree?

 

[nandbytes]

That should be "offences" with a "c" and "cyclists" - pluraL
The only offence in this case - which probably, currently is not an offence - was the cyclist leaving the scene. The accident was 100% caused by the pedestrian.

Plural should end with a lowercase 'l'.

I wasn't referring to my case (or any case for that matter) in specific. We went off-topic 2-3 pages back.

Was commenting on media coverage and how it shouldn't affect the laws.

 

[cambsno]

I am very surprised at the amount of cyclists not using paths. Sure, I get why those lycra clad ones stay on the roads, but the average person often goes on the road. There is a small stretch near me - cycle path with just fields on the other side - no drives or anything. You still see some cyclists on the road??? I always go on a path, yes, you have to be careful of drives and the like but imo its safer than being on a busy road.

 

[Dave *]

Whilst he didn’t do anything illegal and it certainly wasn’t his fault he’s still a knob to leave a badly injured child in the road following an accident. Don’t you agree?

A 15 year old youth in a suit isn’t necessarily seen as “a child” and the cyclist could have perceived him as a young man with a group of young men around him.

It still isn’t known if the cyclist reported the incident to the police at a later stage.

 

[boyfalldown]

A 15 year old youth in a suit isn’t necessarily seen as “a child” and the cyclist could have perceived him as a young man with a group of young men around him.

It still isn’t known if the cyclist reported the incident to the police at a later stage.

Regardless of excuse a 15 year old is still a child. You’d be a knob for not stopping regardless of age.

Fair point about later reporting but I guess the police would put two and two together

 

[nandbytes]

A 15 year old youth in a suit isn’t necessarily seen as “a child” and the cyclist could have perceived him as a young man with a group of young men around him.

It still isn’t known if the cyclist reported the incident to the police at a later stage.

There weren't a group of young men around him. In fact my brothers were the only two "young men" there.

He didn't and I don't think he is going to do it after all this time. There isn't any law requiring him to report it either.

 

[the black fox]

We have had footpaths up here converted to dual usage ,I.e cycle track and public footpath , and having looked into this a couple of years back it should never have been passed as it’s not at the prescribed width ,but the arrogant Lycra lads can’t except one it’s shared with walkers ,dog owners, birdwatchers etc and that it’s also to narrow and not fit for the purpose .
No problem with the family type cyclists who generally behave . But Lycra clad lard arses are a totally different breed . The council have even put in gates and chicanes to slow them they tend to last for a week or so before being destroyed ..

 

[cambsno]

We have had footpaths up here converted to dual usage ,I.e cycle track and public footpath , and having looked into this a couple of years back it should never have been passed as it’s not at the prescribed width ,but the arrogant Lycra lads can’t except one it’s shared with walkers ,dog owners, birdwatchers etc and that it’s also to narrow and not fit for the purpose .
No problem with the family type cyclists who generally behave . But Lycra clad lard arses are a totally different breed . The council have even put in gates and chicanes to slow them they tend to last for a week or so before being destroyed ..

On the busway cycle path its normally the lycra clad who are better behaved. Its the 12-20yo on bikes weaving all over the place and being 4 abreast that is the problem, along with the pedestrians who sometimes do the same or step out without checking.

 

[Dave *]

There weren't a group of young men around him. In fact my brothers were the only two "young men" there.

So another change of story? From lots of people around, busy bus stop, very crowded place, other school kids helping to they were the only two there?

Happened right in front of a London tube station which also has a massive bus stop. There are at least 4-5 busses pulling in an out at any give time. Its a very crowded central place.

As soon as the road seemed clear another person quickly jumped on to the road to cross. One of my brothers decided to follow his lead only he wasn't as lucky as the other person and got hit few steps into the road by a speeding cyclist.
The people there and my other brother couldn't move him

considering the location it happened, there is plenty of CCTV coverage and witnesses

Even the school kids who were around saw that my brother was getting cold on the ground and gave up their blazers to keep him warm

Strange how the story changes like the tide, maybe to better meet your version of the story as required?

 

[gman]

I think he means who was with (and known) to his brother when crossing. I don't think it's feasible to try and defend the cyclist on the basis that he may have believed that all the people in the area were "with" his brother and therefore would do him in. I think the cyclist should have stopped but he doesn't need to because he can slither away knowing that identifying him will be near to impossible. He probably didn't know if he could be held responsible and liable in some way.

 

[Dave *]

I think he means who was with (and known) to his brother when crossing. I don't think it's feasible to try and defend the cyclist on the basis that he may have believed that all the people in the area were "with" his brother and therefore would do him in. I think the cyclist should have stopped but he doesn't need to because he can slither away knowing that identifying him will be near to impossible. He probably didn't know if he could be held responsible and liable in some way.

True, but there is nothing that disproves the possibility the cyclist felt threatened, if there was a large bus stop and a significant number of youths at/near the bus stop he may well have felt threatened (though equally he could have left for other reasons, but that doesn’t disprove the feeling threatened possibility).

It’s also posssible he has reported the incident and the OP just hasn’t been made aware.

 

[nandbytes]

So another change of story? From lots of people around, busy bus stop, very crowded place, other school kids helping to they were the only two there?

Strange how the story changes like the tide, maybe to better meet your version of the story as required?

where did I say men in any of those quotes!? Don't falsely accuse someone if you cannot read and comprehend.

Lots of people is NOT same as "group of young men" (in fact there were none, they were all female waiting at the signals).
There were school kids in school blazer who were two year 8s who are NOT and would NOT look like "group of young men".

So the only two who could have looked like "young men" as per YOUR description are just my brothers which there were 2 of. Also NOT a "group of young men".

Nothing has changed. you just need to learn to comprehend what you read and stop making assumptions and then falsely accuse someone when your assumptions are wrong.

 

[Dave *]

where did I say men in any of those quotes!? Don't falsely accuse someone if you cannot read and comprehend.

Lots of people is NOT same as "group of young men" (in fact there were none, they were all female waiting at the signals).
There were school kids in school blazer who were two year 8s who are NOT and would NOT look like "group of young men".

So the only two who could have looked like "young men" as per YOUR description are just my brothers which there were 2 of. Also NOT a "group of young men".

Nothing has changed. you just need to learn to comprehend what you read and stop making assumptions and then falsely accuse someone when your assumptions are wrong.

So, at a place that was

right in front of a London tube station which also has a massive bus stop. There are at least 4-5 busses pulling in an out at any give time. Its a very crowded central place.

There were only females and “two year 8’s”?

No males over 15 waiting for or getting off at a bus stop where “at least 4-5 buses pulling in an out at any give time” or going to or from “a London tube station”? Or waiting to get onto the school bus your brother was running across the road to catch?

Yeah right...




PS

If you weren’t there, how do you know who was present at the scene straight after the collision occurred?

 

[gman]

Ah, adding bits to the equation.

Let’s add the thousands of extra deaths caused by motor vehicle pollution, the environmental damage (oil, other fluids, brake dust, tyre crumbs), the health disbenefits of driving (fatties with diabetes, heart disease, etc.), the monstrous waste of world resource that is a Vanity Tank carrying one person, then factor in the health benefits of cycling (cardiovascular fitness, weight loss etc.) and the social benefits (connected with environment, transport on a human scale etc.)

There’s a nasty anti-cycling culture in this country that is completely out of proportion.

Unfortunately, some of those health benefits of cycling will be negated by sucking in all that tailpipe pollution and brake dust. Even in the city we'll always need cars because bicycles don't have boots and aren't the most appealing in heavy rain. So although we can (and are) address the pollution issue with cars etc, I doubt there's ever be integrated treadmills built into them.

 

[andya700]

So, at a place that was



There were only females and “two year 8’s”?

No males over 15 waiting for or getting off at a bus stop where “at least 4-5 buses pulling in an out at any give time” or going to or from “a London tube station”? Or waiting to get onto the school bus your brother was running across the road to catch?

Yeah right...




PS

If you weren’t there, how do you know who was present at the scene straight after the collision occurred?

Psychic powers Dave.

 

[gman]

True, but there is nothing that disproves the possibility the cyclist felt threatened, if there was a large bus stop and a significant number of youths at/near the bus stop he may well have felt threatened (though equally he could have left for other reasons, but that doesn’t disprove the feeling threatened possibility).

It’s also posssible he has reported the incident and the OP just hasn’t been made aware.

Nah, doesn't wash with me. Unless they were shouting at him or something then their presence alone doesn't warrant being threatened, especially if he had allegedly done nothing wrong. I don't think I've ever come across a cyclist who would be so easily spooked. Quite the opposite, they all seem to be "at the ready" to mouth off and get violent at the least wee thing - regardless of fault. I reckon it's more like there was a significant number of witnesses and he was getting the hell out of there! lol

 

[Pound Coin]

I am very surprised at the amount of cyclists not using paths. Sure, I get why those lycra clad ones stay on the roads, but the average person often goes on the road. There is a small stretch near me - cycle path with just fields on the other side - no drives or anything. You still see some cyclists on the road??? I always go on a path, yes, you have to be careful of drives and the like but imo its safer than being on a busy road.

Paths, in my experience, are often littered, unlit, bumpy, poorly signposted, don’t go where you want to go, require you to stop at every occasion it meets with a road, etc.

I’m not surprised people don’t use them.

 

[neil_g]

I am very surprised at the amount of cyclists not using paths. Sure, I get why those lycra clad ones stay on the roads, but the average person often goes on the road. There is a small stretch near me - cycle path with just fields on the other side - no drives or anything. You still see some cyclists on the road??? I always go on a path, yes, you have to be careful of drives and the like but imo its safer than being on a busy road.

I have no experience of the one you mention specifically, but around here the roads are (shockingly) generally safer than cycle lanes. Random obstructions, poor maintenance, shared with wandering adults / kids / dogs, often retarded routing of lanes etc.

Cyclists aren't obligated to use cycle lanes, and for fair reason a lot aren't fit for purpose.

 

[neil_g]

Whilst he didn’t do anything illegal and it certainly wasn’t his fault he’s still a knob to leave a badly injured child in the road following an accident. Don’t you agree?

I think we covered in the first couple of pages that morally the cyclist shouldve stopped, but with such high anti cyclist attitude and mob culture it was perhaps understandable why he didn't.

 

[nandbytes]

So, at a place that was

There were only females and “two year 8’s”?

No males over 15 waiting for or getting off at a bus stop where “at least 4-5 buses pulling in an out at any give time” or going to or from “a London tube station”? Or waiting to get onto the school bus your brother was running across the road to catch?

Yeah right...

PS

If you weren’t there, how do you know who was present at the scene straight after the collision occurred?

I know because I asked my brother.

Once again you don't read properly and make assumptions (even worst you state them like facts as if you were a witness!)
I said they were at a crossing. The crossing is next to a massive bus stop with many stops for many different busses pulling in and out. It is perfectly possible that there were no males at a crossing. The crossing normally only has a handful of people in it.

I don't know what your problem is, if you are simply here to antagonise me then I am not replying to you anymore since I have better things to do.

If you want to have a discussion without falsely accusing me and alluding me to doing things I didn't do I'll be happy to draw you a diagram for clarity and provide any information to best of my ability.

 

[boyfalldown]

I think we covered in the first couple of pages that morally the cyclist shouldve stopped, but with such high anti cyclist attitude and mob culture it was perhaps understandable why he didn't.

I guess we disagree how understandable it was. The cyclist has done his bit for his sports image (which does have problems) and sinking it that bit lower

 

[nandbytes]

here's a quick rough sketch


WhatsApp Image 2018-10-04 at 16.22.12 by nandbytes on Talk Photography

 

[Dave *]

here's a quick rough sketch


WhatsApp Image 2018-10-04 at 16.22.12 by nandbytes on Talk Photography

Like this thread, there is a lot of BS in that drawing


By the way @nandbytes, I’m only questioning what you say and have even quoted every separate scenario you’ve posted. If you’re angry about all the differing arguments I’m putting forward maybe you shouldn’t have made so may different excuses and scenarios...

 

[nandbytes]

Like this thread, there is a lot of BS in that drawing


By the way @nandbytes, I’m only questioning what you say and have even quoted every separate scenario you’ve posted. If you’re angry about all the differing arguments I’m putting forward maybe you shouldn’t have made so may different excuses and scenarios...

Lol ok. It doesn't match your assumptions so it must be BS.

Again assuming I am angry. Haven't made a single excuse. Perhaps try reading stuff you quote next time.

Anyway believe what you want. Hardly makes a difference now.

 

[Dave *]

Lol ok. It doesn't match your assumptions so it must be BS.

Again assuming I am angry. Haven't made a single excuse. Perhaps try reading stuff you quote next time.

Anyway believe what you want. Hardly makes a difference now.

I read and even quote the specific sentences you’ve written that I reply to, it’s almost like you’ve got multiple personalities the number of times things have changed since the OP.

Go back and look.

I know because I asked my brother.

Would that be the same brother that has changed his account each time you've had to post an amendment?