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and please use their services
Hey, you can't leave that thing there!
- Thread starter Mr Badger
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As a youngster in the early '70s I would sometimes think about what I would do if I was a terrorist. I always wondered, for example, why the IRA didn't blow up a couple of motorway bridges. Imagine the chaos.
I also used to wonder why international terrorist didn't block the Suez.
I was a bit special.
I also used to wonder why international terrorist didn't block the Suez.
I was a bit special.
JohnC6
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The authorities are saying that a strong gust of wind (there was a sandstorm at the time) hit it which skewed it across the canal and once it hit the embankment it lost power and steering. The only wind speed I could find for that time was 30mph. Considering the ship is 400m long and weighs 225,000 tons I'm struggling to understand how that came about unless it's to do with the physics of a wind like that hitting 400m length of high containers cargo.
I was also amazed to discover that it costs shipping companies $700,000 [£511,409]....to transit the 120 mile-long canal.
The ship can be seen here on Vesselfinder https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000
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Reports also said earlier that the ship had been partially re-floated - I wonder if they just meant the middle bit was still afloat? It seems odd to me that the alleged gust of wind doesn't appear to have done the same to any of the other massive container ships following it or in front of it? Perhaps it was a freak gust in very localised terrain? It's given the Twitter-verse something to talk about anyway, I particularly enjoyed seeing the track of the route the ship took between raising anchor and entering the canal too.
Edit: For some reason Twitter won't let me put a direct link to the thread in this post, but just enter #EVERGIVEN into Twitter to find it.
PS Just in case anyone is wondering, the ship has EVERGREEN written on its side, that's the name of the company, the ship itself is named Ever Given. Although perhaps they may have to change this to Ever Grounded?
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JohnC6
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Two attacks happened in 2013. Here's a video of two men with RPG's. You can see the explosion and it didn't cause much damage. It was one of two ships the group attacked a month apart.I think to cause real damage and possibly a sinking an attack would have to involve filling a remote-controlled boat (unless they wanted to meet Allah and the 72 'eternally young and beautiful virgins allegedly allocated to each one who dies in combat.ie martyrdom when they enter Jannah (Paradise Garden. equivalent of Heaven) ...with high explosives and strike the vessel. The attack in the video was claimed by the Furqan Brigade which supports the al- Qaeda ideology and which fought in the war in Syria.
This is the statment they put out which was translated by SITE Intelligence Group (US)
“After becoming fed up with criminal practices such as sieges of mosques, killing and displacement of Muslims, detentions of Muslim scholars, and the vicious attack by Egypt’s Crusaders on Islam and its people and mosques, the Furqan Brigades declare their responsibility for targeting the international waterway of the Suez Canal which is the artery of the commerce of the nations of disbelief and tyranny. By the graces of God, it was carried out with two RPG rounds amid their weak guards.”
The US still sends it's navy ships through May 9 2019..
U.S. carrier to deter Iran passes through Suez Canal
The U.S. aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln, deployed by President Donald Trump's administration to the Middle East as a warning to Iran, passed through Egypt's Suez Canal on Thursday, the Suez Canal Authority said.
www.reuters.com
There must be a reason why more such attacks haven't taken place because there must be weapons available today that weren't available back in 2013 that could sink a ship.
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JohnC6
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Reports also said earlier that the ship had been partially re-floated - I wonder if they just meant the middle bit was still afloat? It seems odd to me that the alleged gust of wind doesn't appear to have done the same to any of the other massive container ships following it or in front of it? Perhaps it was a freak gust in very localised terrain? It's given the Twitter-verse something to talk about anyway, I particularly enjoyed seeing the track of the route the ship took between raising anchor and entering the canal too.
Edit: For some reason Twitter won't let me put a direct link to the thread in this post, but just enter #EVERGIVEN into Twitter to find it.
PS Just in case anyone is wondering, the ship has EVERGREEN written on its side, that's the name of the company, the ship itself is named Ever Given. Although perhaps they may have to change this to Ever Grounded?
Earlier this evening I heard a report on the news stating that the ship has not been partially re-floated...ie refuting an earlier claim. This morning I heard a ship's captain, who had sailed through the canal on several occasions, speaking on Five Live stating that it was a major task to get it re-floated and that he didn't see it happening anytime soon.He said that it would have been panic stations on board.
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From what I've seen from a few photos I'd imagine it will have to be dragged out backwards, via the route it went in, as I'd reason that trying to pull the bough round to the north would be something like trying to pull a plough sideways out of a furrow. However, damaging the structural integrity of the ship may be something of a risk if too much force is applied in the wrong way if it's badly aground! From what I've read, it seems the tides will get higher as the month goes on, so that may help. I'm glad I'm not responsible for sorting this out though!
Bobsyeruncle
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That horizon.....
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That horizon.....
I'll help it slide out. IF all the water doesn't drain out first!
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Given the position and the angle of the Ever Given to the banks of the canal I tend to disbelieve the "gust of wind" explanation. The most likely cause is a failure of the steering gear or a "blackout", failure of the ship's electrical generators.
If it was a gust of wind then to be effective it would have acted equally on the whole length of the vessel, she would have moved either to port or starboard and hit the bank of the canal roughly parallel to it.
The most likely cause was a failure of the steering gear. When this happens a vessel will swing either to port or starboard under the influence of the rotation of the propellor. If I remember correctly, my time at sea was spent many years ago now, if the propellor rotation is clockwise she will swing to starboard and if it is anticlockwise to port. The normal rotation of a single propellor is always clockwise so that all ships have the same handling characteristics.
From the link John posted Ever Given's bow is firmly embedded in the right hand bank which also points to a steering gear failure being the most probable cause of the grounding.
Jelster
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Reports also said earlier that the ship had been partially re-floated - I wonder if they just meant the middle bit was still afloat? It seems odd to me that the alleged gust of wind doesn't appear to have done the same to any of the other massive container ships following it or in front of it? Perhaps it was a freak gust in very localised terrain? It's given the Twitter-verse something to talk about anyway, I particularly enjoyed seeing the track of the route the ship took between raising anchor and entering the canal too.
Edit: For some reason Twitter won't let me put a direct link to the thread in this post, but just enter #EVERGIVEN into Twitter to find it.
PS Just in case anyone is wondering, the ship has EVERGREEN written on its side, that's the name of the company, the ship itself is named Ever Given. Although perhaps they may have to change this to Ever Grounded?
Didn't it's engines fail, so it was sitting dead in the water? My Mrs' sister & hubby have a narrow boat on the canals, and you'd be amazed at how difficult it is to control on a windy day. That container ship has a huge surface area for the wind to hit, a bit like a sail....
JohnC6
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I agree. Much more plausible. These ships, as you've probably experienced yourself battle against very high winds including hurricanes,typhoons,cyclones .. the name depending on location in the world..you'l know that,though
Box Brownie
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Honest.................not to hi-jack the thread but seemed to 'match' the thread title.
On the BBC world service a couple of nights ago they had an article about the plight of seafarers who are and haver been stranded for years(?) in offshore moored (in the Persian Gulf) ships whose owners have ceased trading. It seems they cannot legally leave their vessels (any port authorities return them to the ship if they try) and the failing company fails to maintain supplies to them. Plus they stop paying them and eventually when they say they will it is likely to be a fraction of what they are due!!!
It does make me wonder why, by now, that there is nothing in international law to protect these workers rights and conditions of employment?
On the BBC world service a couple of nights ago they had an article about the plight of seafarers who are and haver been stranded for years(?) in offshore moored (in the Persian Gulf) ships whose owners have ceased trading. It seems they cannot legally leave their vessels (any port authorities return them to the ship if they try) and the failing company fails to maintain supplies to them. Plus they stop paying them and eventually when they say they will it is likely to be a fraction of what they are due!!!
It does make me wonder why, by now, that there is nothing in international law to protect these workers rights and conditions of employment?
JohnC6
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I should have read your post before replying to Christopher. If that's the case..ie failed engines, so dead in the water then,yes..I imagine even low wind speed on such a large area would push it onto the embankment.I did wonder why the engine and steering failed just because it grounded.
I tried to find out if there was an engine failure and as you see the issue of power failure has been denied.
Early reports suggested the ship's power failed, leading it to drift from its course. The was contradicted by the ship's technical manager Bernhard Schulte Shipmanagement, which said in a statement to Insider that "initial investigations rule out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause of the grounding."
So, thinking out of the box I'm wondering about insurance and the nature of cover. This aspect is straightforward
Peril of the Sea — refers to extraordinary forces of nature that maritime ventures might encounter in the course of a voyage. Some examples of these perils include stranding, sinking, collision, heavy wave action, and high winds.
Definition of Perils:
“Marine Perils means the perils consequent on”, or incidental to the navigation of the sea, that is to say, perils of the seas, fire, war perils (enemies), pirates, rovers, thieves, captures, seizures, restraints and detainment of princes and peoples, jettisons, barratry and other perils, either of the like kind or ...
I found this in a comprehensive article in the International Institute of Marine Surveying...2016.
We are haemorrhaging money! Machinery is the biggest cost in terms of overall claims amount that insurers pay. Machinery incidents amount to over 40% of the overall claims paid by underwriters. To give some background, insurers cover the cost of replacing machinery which has broken as a result of negligence by the crew providing such loss or damage has not resulted from want of due diligence by the insured, owners or managers. This is very wide coverage and effectively acts as warranty insurance for the machinery. Obviously it is open to abuse and insurers trust the owners to be open and honest when presenting a claim for machinery damage.
This suggests that even negligence re operatin g machinery/engines resulting in damage is covered but I see the term 'due diligence' in there which I interpret as a proper maintenance schedule having been adhered to.
Lastly. Maybe it was the wind. It's happened before with this ship which, by the way, is classed as one of the largest of its kind in the world. It's only three years old .
2019 Hamburg
On 9 February 2019, the ship struck and heavily damaged a 25-meter-long HADAG ferry boat at Blankenese near the harbour of Hamburg.Two minutes after the collision, a traffic ban on the Elbe river was issued due to high winds.
Not so much a whodunnit as a whatdunnit..
JohnC6
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Not hijacking the thread atall. It's a good opportunity to air this related ever-increasing problem due to shipping companies going into liquidation re Covid.
Here's a very good Bloomberg article (Dec. 19 2020) on the issue. It's long (ish) but worth reading. Here's the last paragraph of it'
The problem of abandonment has become so commonplace that the IMO [International Maritime Org.] met recently to develop guidelines for flag and port states to deal with vessels and their crew. Those recommendations, though, aren't expected to be finalized before 2022. As of now, the fates of abandoned mariners are left to the discretion of local port officials.
From the IMO website re Covid
IMO is also running a series of regional webinars to discuss and develop best practices aimed at addressing the current challenges seafarers are facing during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.
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boogie man
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They did. The IRA planted a van bomb at Staples Corner in 1992 causing a huge amount of damage to the flyover. It’s a major intersection in NW London where two multi lane roads converge, also it’s right at the end of the M1. Caused a massive amount of chaos, plus killed and injured quite a few people.
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I have always maintained that if the terrorists that carried out the 9-11 attacks had focused on the 3 big internet hubs in the US (New York, LA & Chicago), it would have been far more devastating for their economy. However, the twin towers were a showpiece of Western Capitalism, would have taken more lives, and was more of a spectacle.