Help with my first DSLR

C

c4rv3r

Suspended / Banned
Messages
225
Name
Steve
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi peeps :)
I am currently undertaking a 2 year Photography course, but i don't have a DSLR yet (obviously a bad situation lol), i am going to be saving every scratch of pennies for a DSLR.... but heres the problem... i haven't a CLUE what to go for!
I know this thread has appeared time and time again, but any help would be appreciated.
Originally i was going to go for the cheapest option, but since handling the bulky Nikon D50's that the college own, i have since changed my mind about getting a bulky 'lower end' camera, it seems to be that all the of the lowest end cameras are the chunkiest things.
Anyway.... My Dad has a refurbished Canon, i can't remember whether its a 400d or a 450d, the book says 400d but i think the camera is a 450d, now i've handled this and i can vaguely remember it feeling very sleek and nice to hold; i know its all about the feel of the camera more than anything, as they are mostly the same; but what i really want to know about are the 'other' DSLR's.

Basically you have your Canon's and your Nikon's, and then there are the other brands. I've seen a couple of students in my class with Sony's, and it got me interested in them, but they seem too good to be true. You can buy a 'Sony A450' for £330, it has a 14mp sensor, 7fps continuous shooting, amongst other 'higher end' features, all for a rediculous price that doesn't seem to make sense.
What i'd like to know is.... are the 'other' brands any good? So to speak...
What are the catches with this sony?
Is the price tag on this sony really too good to be true for its features? I've read on an amazon review that it has terrible autofocus, and that it isn't very sharp, could there be any truth in this?
What are the other brands like? Panasonic, Olympus etc.
I know Canon and Nikon are good cameras with good lenses, i just haven't a clue about the 'less big' DSLR names.
Thanks for reading, and thank you for any comments,

Steve
 
I forgot to add that i'm definitely looking for a higher end one, i'll have to stretch the pennies, but i want one that will still be good to go outside of college and even after college, so anything in the canon 450d range of camera's.
 
I have the 1000d, and have got to say, Ive out-grown it.. I want a 5dmk2 or even a 7d,... but i'd settle for 50D or 60D :D..
 
six6six said:
I have the 1000d, and have got to say, Ive out-grown it.. I want a 5dmk2 or even a 7d,... but i'd settle for 50D or 60D :D..
Click to expand...

Thats the problem with the lower end ones, i want something that can keep up with me :P Since i am learning about photography, i will be needing things like exposure bracketing and stuff, i just don't know if these other ones are any good lol. Ooh and the 1000d looks awfully chunky! :P I have small hands so i really feel the thickness on those bulky things lol.
 
strangely enough I'm doing a two year BTEC photography course and there are alot of people who use Sony (more than I expected) and there are about two canon users who we take the micky out because they have crap camera's :lol: joking aside its best to molest as i always say, in other words go and handle all brands at jessops or a near camera shop and try them out and see which one feels comfy ;)
 
c4rv3r said:
Thats the problem with the lower end ones, i want something that can keep up with me :P Since i am learning about photography, i will be needing things like exposure bracketing and stuff, i just don't know if these other ones are any good lol. Ooh and the 1000d looks awfully chunky! :P I have small hands so i really feel the thickness on those bulky things lol.
Click to expand...

LoL.... I have small hands too, but in fairness i couldnt say how different it is in size compared to the xxxD series.. however it does have AEB :thumbs: .. which is one of the features i wanted in deciding on which camera to get..
 
if you really want a higher end camera you'll find they aren't small

the 1D is huge and heavy, because it's made to last, the 450d etc I could never use as my big hands would swamp it
 
Thanks for the comments, what level are you doing mastertrinity? I'm on the level 3.
By high end i mean medium to be honest because i couldn't afford a 1d no way, my budget is around £400 ish, might be able to stretch it though.
I am seriously concidering either a Sony A390 or a Canon 450d. Has anyone had experience with refurbishments or Sony's or any other kind of DSLR?

Steve
 
If the canon 1000D looks chunky to you, then you're in for a shock if you go and look at a 50D or 5DmkII.

The 1000D is canon's smallest DSLR!


If you want high quality but smaller than that, look into an olympus PEN or panasonic GF1.


'Other' brands like Sony/olympus/pentax/panasonic make excellent cameras. None of them offer the same massive choice of new lenses as nikon or canon, but in your situation, it doesn't really matter too much that you don't have 60 lenses to choose from.


Go into a good, big camera shop and try out as many models in your budget as you can find. Pick the one which feels nicest to hold and you feel you would take out with you most. Don't let megapixels influence your choice, unless you plan to make absolutely massive prints, megapixels don't matter.
And unless you plan on shooting sports and wildlife, the fps rate doesn't really matter either.
Whether it's a canon, nikon, sony, olympus, pentax or whatever, it'll still take great photos (if you can take great photos with it).

Pay no attention to anyone telling you that 'this brands better', just pick the one that makes you want it when you hold it in your hands.
 
Last edited:
squishy said:
If the canon 1000D looks chunky to you, then you're in for a shock if you go and look at a 50D or 5DmkII.

The 1000D is canon's smallest DSLR!


If you want high quality but smaller than that, look into an olympus PEN or panasonic GF1.


'Other' brands like Sony/olympus/pentax/panasonic make excellent cameras. None of them offer the same massive choice of new lenses as nikon or canon, but in you're situation, it doesn't really matter too much that you don't have 60 lenses to choose from.


Go into a good, big camera shop and try out as many models in your budget as you can find. Pick the one which feels nicest to hold and you feel you would take out with you most. Don't let megapixels influence your choice, unless you plan to make absolutely massive prints, megapixels don't matter.
And unless you plan on shooting sports and wildlife, the fps rate doesn't really matter either.
Whether it's a canon, nikon, sony, olympus, pentax or whatever, it'll still take great photos (if you can take great photos with it).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, i'll defo check those out. It might not have been the 1000d that i saw, the canon i saw was a lower end, but it was HUGE, more like the 5d in size (without the battery grip).
 
that's strange.

Canon don't make any 'huge' lower end cameras.
 
c4rv3r said:
Ooh and the 1000d looks awfully chunky! :P I have small hands so i really feel the thickness on those bulky things lol.
Click to expand...

The 1000D is the same body as the 450d. But i think it has a smaller screen. I had a 450D and it is a good DSLR but it did feel crampt in my hands and i put the battery grip on it. i sold it a few weeks ago and got a lumix G10 (and then a G1), this is smaller than the 450D but is more comfy to hold for my big hands. It's all about the shape of the grip and the way it feels in your hand.
 
matt b said:
The 1000D is the same body as the 450d. But i think it has a smaller screen. I had a 450D and it is a good DSLR but it did feel crampt in my hands and i put the battery grip on it. i sold it a few weeks ago and got a lumix G10 (and then a G1), this is smaller than the 450D but is more comfy to hold for my big hands. It's all about the shape of the grip and the way it feels in your hand.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i think i'm gona have to brave up and go to a Jessops, i just feel wrong asking to feel their cameras, when i know full well i'm gona buy the camera online from Amazon or eBay and save £50 Lol.

I'm just wondering if the Sony's have a higher noise on them? I'm sure the extra dosh for the Canon's or Nikon's isn't for no reason at all.
 
Best advice, is to go and try out a few camera bodies at your local camera shop. As for picking a camera, go with the one that you feel comfortable holding and operating, each system has their own quirks. One thing you need to remember is you're buying into a system, so check out what lenses are available as well, you might want to do landscapes or action photography, both require a completely different lens, check what lenses are available and the price. Canon and Nikon tend to have the larger ranges, but the other brands are slowly catching up and the 3rd party manufacturers are also producing lenses for the other brands.

Another way to get more for your £££s is to go 2nd hand, stick with a rep dealer like Camtech, MBP, Ffordes, Park Camera's, Digital Depot or Mifsuds, all have a reasonable selection of camera's, ok not the latest gimmicks, video, live view etc depending on the model, but personally you'll get a better camera for your budget then going new, especially as you only have £400 for camera and lens. Avoid the kits, the lenses ain't that good.
 
A £400 budget will buy a lot of 2nd hand camera. Since the launch of the 60D, the 40D is getting much cheaper. I saw one go with a genuine grip on ebay for £330 but that was over the recent bank holiday weekend. £300 would buy a 450D leaving you some left over for a lens/lenses.

Canon and Nikon have many more lenses available than the Sony (I think, I'm a Canon man myself). One good thing about the Canon range is that all EF Canon brand lenses will work, even those from 20 years ago.

Go to Jessops and see what fits in your hand, you don't have to buy from them.
 
Thanks guys.
@pete.rush, what kind of lens would you recommend instead of a kit one?
 
You will find most camera shops will let you handle their cameras places like jessops and even big pc world stores have them out on display with lens's on so you can have a go, for years I had a canon eos5 (35mm) with all the toys but to make the brake into digital I went for second hand, My local London camera exchange done me a great deal on a used body with a lens which ment I could get a very good spec for not loads of cash.
 
Thanks guys, its good advice. I always feel a bit dubious going for second hand though, i'm not sure why, but it sure would be a wise move to make. I'm not sure how refurbished cameras work, are they just used ones that have been tested by canon?

sorry i feel like such a noob Lol.
 
Last edited:
A lot of this is going to hinge on the type of subjects you will be shooting for your college course, though you cant go wrong with a fast 50mm lens, its almost a statutory requirement and will cover most subjects.
I would have said go second hand, buy from a dealer so you get a 6 month warranty then go out and make whatever you have work in the situation, its not all about having loads of lenses, but about being able to adapt whatever you have with you to the situation.

My local cameraworld currently has a mint boxed 450D with 18-55IS for £400 with 6 months warranty..

Oh on a side note a panny G1 or similar isn't really suitable for the college course, you really need a real DSLR
 
c4rv3r said:
Yeah, i think i'm gona have to brave up and go to a Jessops, i just feel wrong asking to feel their cameras, when i know full well i'm gona buy the camera online from Amazon or eBay and save £50 Lol.
Click to expand...

lol? Not really. With 4% cashback, Jessops are the cheapest around for the D300s, D700, and D5000, and close for the D90. I don't work for them, I'm just sick of hearing "Jessops is expensive" all the time when it's a fallacy.

c4rv3r said:
Thats the problem with the lower end ones, i want something that can keep up with me :P Since i am learning about photography, i will be needing things like exposure bracketing and stuff,
Click to expand...

Do they teach you to use auto-bracketing at college? I'd have hoped it would be more like get a manual exposure right first time....

Anyway, on a more positive note, if you want small and cheap get a second hand D40 with 35mm f/1.8. It's all the camera anyone who doesn't know what camera they need needs.
 
Thanks peeps, i'll defo look into a second hand/refurbished camera from a street dealer.

@martsharm, we are learning all aspects of photography and cameras, both manual and automatic. When i say all aspects.. i mean the history as well Lol (interesting, but less enjoyable than practical lessons :P).
 
c4rv3r said:
Yeah, i think i'm gona have to brave up and go to a Jessops, i just feel wrong asking to feel their cameras, when i know full well i'm gona buy the camera online from Amazon or eBay and save £50 Lol.
Click to expand...
Sometimes you can get instore deals and negotiate a bit and end up with as good a deal as online.

A good place to look at different bodies can be Currys - my local one has Canon 1000D, 550D, Nikon D3000, D5000 and D90 all in a row so could look at them all and compare how they felt, what the viewfinder was like etc without taking up any staff time - limited as they are 'tethered' - but it gave me somewhere to start.
 
Last edited:
One thing that I'd love is in body image stabilisation and I'm pretty sure that all Sony's have this but Canon and Nikon bodies don't and if you want image stabilisation you therefore have to buy image stabilised lenses. However, not all lenses have it so obviously in some situations having in body image stabilisation could help and as I said, I'd love it.
 
c4rv3r said:
I'm just wondering if the Sony's have a higher noise on them? I'm sure the extra dosh for the Canon's or Nikon's isn't for no reason at all.
Click to expand...

It's for the name. Two years ago new Sonys had high ISO noise issues with in body generated jpgs (esp the 2xx/3xx and the initial firmware for the 700, which has since been upgraded). Not now at comprable price points. If you can live without live view, the A450 is a lot of camera for the price of the Comet kit offer.

Regarding lenses, which are always mentioned as a reason to buy Canon or Nikon, you will only run into a brick wall on lenses for Sony bodies when you get to the point where you are looking to spend £5k+ on a lens (e.g. 200/2, 400/2.8) as there have never been lenses like that made in the mount. Sony took over the Minolta camera business and the Alpha bodies are compatible with Minolta autofocus lenses as they share the same mount. Since Minolta introduced the first autofocus SLR 25 years ago there is a vast amount of second hand glass available in addition to the current, ever expanding, Sony range, not to mention the Sigma and Tamron range of lenses.

All Sony bodies have image stabilisation built in (no need for IS / VR lenses) and they all have a motor to drive the AF mechanism of older lenses that don't have in lens motors.
 
For what you want to do, you'd have a real problem beating a Nikon D90.
 
Coaster was saying something similar to what i was thinking. The problem with the 450D et al is that they are a few years old now.

If it was my cash and i had a budget of £400-500 then i would seriously consider a 2nd hand D200 something with the ability to manully overide everything so you can actually learn about photography.

Too many courses nowadays just dont teach the basics about photograply :(
 
If you consider the D200, also consider the 40D.

But considering your comment about 'bulky' bodies, I wouldn't have thought either of those would suit you particularly.



PeterCollins said:
Coaster was saying something similar to what i was thinking. The problem with the 450D et al is that they are a few years old now.

If it was my cash and i had a budget of £400-500 then i would seriously consider a 2nd hand D200 something with the ability to manully overide everything so you can actually learn about photography.

Too many courses nowadays just dont teach the basics about photograply :(
Click to expand...

You say the problem with the 450D is that it's a few years old, but the D200 is hardly any more recent.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the posts guys, i know some Nikon lovers are gona hate me for this, but they feel so ugly in my hands Lol, i actually think they look better than Canon's though. I think its really between Canon and Sony, i just hate the feel of Nikon's :(

That was the problem with the 450d, it is a bit old now, but i know its a top camera and i like to believe that its the photographer that makes the camera, rather than the other way round.
I have a good few months to find the right one, its just a hard decision amongst models, there are so many choices and things to concider, i definitely like the idea of IS in the Sony bodies, its just the lens choices are slightly less. Ultimately i want an investment that will last me a good 10 years, otherwise i would be going for the lowest possible end camera's for £300 ish.

Steve.
 
c4rv3r said:
Thanks guys.
@pete.rush, what kind of lens would you recommend instead of a kit one?
Click to expand...

The kit offers I was talking about are like the ones offered in curry's where you get a 18-55mm (not a bad lens), the generic 70(75)-300mm (sigma / tamron / canon, budget lenses offering very average IQs) and camera body if you when for the canon, Sony would probably have something similar.

Personally the canon I would look at would be a 20D, you could get 1 for just over £200/220, its still a very capable camera, leaving you some of your budget for a lens, cards, spare battery etc alternative, if you went sony, then Ffordes has 2 A450 + 18-55mm going for £350/400

I know funds are limited, you'll have to buy a camera body and lens(es) for around the £400 mark and going 2nd hand will get you more for your £££, it depends what the 2nd hand dealer offers, usually, they just have a camera body, occasionally the 18-55 included, but something like the 50mm f1.8 is a good all round starter, but it depends what you want to photograph and what will be required for the course.
 
If £400 is your budget for everything, I personally would go for:


Canon 20D from ebay = £175 to £200.
Canon 18-55IS Lens = £60, from on this very forum.
Canon 55-250 IS Lens = £130, Used, from here or ebay.
This would leave a small amount for a CF card.

Keep an eye out on here or ebay for a camera bag. The Tamrac System 3, or Lowepro 160AW would be ideal for now. These can be had for £20 ish on ebay.

If I were you, my next purchase would be a Canon 50mm 1.8 II Lens, for just £75 from Kerso.
 
c4rv3r said:
i definitely like the idea of IS in the Sony bodies, its just the lens choices are slightly less.
Click to expand...

What lenses (other than the £5k+ ones I mentioned) do you feel are unavailable in a-mount that you might need?
 
c4rv3r said:
Thanks for the posts guys, i know some Nikon lovers are gona hate me for this, but they feel so ugly in my hands Lol, i actually think they look better than Canon's though. I think its really between Canon and Sony, i just hate the feel of Nikon's :(

That was the problem with the 450d, it is a bit old now, but i know its a top camera and i like to believe that its the photographer that makes the camera, rather than the other way round.
I have a good few months to find the right one, its just a hard decision amongst models, there are so many choices and things to concider, i definitely like the idea of IS in the Sony bodies, its just the lens choices are slightly less. Ultimately i want an investment that will last me a good 10 years, otherwise i would be going for the lowest possible end camera's for £300 ish.

Steve.
Click to expand...

Don't feel embarrassed! I don't like the feel of nikons either. It's why I shoot canon.

The fact is, as any nikon user will agree, you'd be silly to buy a camera that just doesn't feel right in your hands.

Sony offer some fantastic cameras at the moment. You get less lens choice in some areas, but for a lot of things that shouldn't be an issue.
Definitely don't be swayed towards canon just to have one of the 'big two' brands. If you buy a canon, buy it cos you like the camera.

Whatever you go with, you'll be very pleased with it.
 
c4rv3r said:
Thanks for the comments, what level are you doing mastertrinity? I'm on the level 3.
By high end i mean medium to be honest because i couldn't afford a 1d no way, my budget is around £400 ish, might be able to stretch it though.
I am seriously concidering either a Sony A390 or a Canon 450d. Has anyone had experience with refurbishments or Sony's or any other kind of DSLR?

Steve
Click to expand...

im also on the level 3, its a bit much in the way of work aint it, were doing self portraits in studio photography and learning about cindy sherman who is pretty psycho lmao, theres other stuff aswell like were doing an alternative birmingham project which is pretty big aswell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top