Help with low key portraits

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Mr Mike

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Mike
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As per subject looking for some guidance on how to PP low key shots?

I only have the rear of lastolite hilite which i tried to use, in the future i will purchase the black bottle top due to its light sucking abilities.

So far i have tried using the black eye dropper in cs4 levels which will make the background black but drops the levels too much making hair detail dissappear and the edge of anything black, when trying to then correct the levels are all over the place making the person look far from right.

Any advice on how to do this the correct way?

Cheers
Mike
 
Have you tried using a black sheet?

I got two doubles from Asda at around 9 quid for the pair.

Try and minimise the light falling on the background and it should be OK.

I am going to shoot some lowkey portraits on Friday night. I will try and post some up when I've done with the set-up details if you like?

Andy
 
EDIT:

Just realised you are looking for PP techniques.

Try what you have already done but on a seperate layer then erase the subject back to the background layer.

I've used the same method for high key but looks better when done right in camera.

Andy
 
A good piece of velvet like material makes a good black backdrop. If you have any try that.

The only problem with a white background material using it in a low key environment is the amount of light it kicks back into the subject. Whilst you could possibly select the background and then make it darker, you do run the risk of getting a bright ring around the subject, which is a result of this kick back. It can be a real pain to get rid of it especially on hair.
 
daddy day care said:
EDIT:

Just realised you are looking for PP techniques.

Try what you have already done but on a seperate layer then erase the subject back to the background layer.

I've used the same method for high key but looks better when done right in camera.

Andy
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, i will give that a go and see how i get on :thumbs:

Chappers said:
A good piece of velvet like material makes a good black backdrop. If you have any try that.

The only problem with a white background material using it in a low key environment is the amount of light it kicks back into the subject. Whilst you could possibly select the background and then make it darker, you do run the risk of getting a bright ring around the subject, which is a result of this kick back. It can be a real pain to get rid of it especially on hair.
Click to expand...

The back of the lastolite hilite is black not white and i do intend to purchase the bottle top in the future but until then just playing with what i have. I do appreciate the getting it right in camera but i had no idea low key was harder to achieve results than high key
 
Low key should not be harder than high key.

PP can be difficult as already said but setting up to get it right in camera should be dead easy.

I shot a very quick portrait this morning which demonstrates how simple it is. I can post it up if you want me to.

Andy
 
daddy day care said:
Low key should not be harder than high key.

PP can be difficult as already said but setting up to get it right in camera should be dead easy.

I shot a very quick portrait this morning which demonstrates how simple it is. I can post it up if you want me to.

Andy
Click to expand...

Hi Andy, yeah if you dont mind posting a low key that would be great :) I dont have much space at the moment so trying to fit in 2mtr space makes this harder for me. I get the idea of lights closer to subject and subject away from background but just dont have the space hence the hilite for high key because you can almost touch it although my attempt here does have a little wrap so its still a little tight.

I think my problem is i dont actually know how much light should be used on a low key so im just tryin my luck but the black side of the hilite is reflective and due to my space i cant light the subject without lighting the background too much.As stated before i do intend to by the bottle top in the future which would probably make my small space possible, until then i just want to capture best i can the PP it acceptable.

I am looking for guidance on how to make the background nice and black without killing the levels on the subjects :shrug:

Looking forward to your example, might help me get the correct level of light on the subjects at least

Mike
 
Bear in mind that my low key shot won't help you with PP. That said, if you have room to take high key shots with a hilite then you should have room for low key with a black sheet.


Kevin by Andy Miszkiel, on Flickr

This was shot with a black sheet as a background about 6 feet behind the subject. Light was to the side with a 90cm octobox about 2 feet away from subject. There was no PP on the background at all just a slight tweak on the overall levels.

As space is an issue, do you have a room that you could shoot into through a doorway? I have used this trick a few times to give me more length. The shot above was in my hallway. The light was in the doorway of the living room and I was stood in the kitchen.

HTH,

Andy
 
Last edited:
Sorry to be picky - but I don't think that is a low-key shot.

In my understanding, low key lighting tends to leave much of the subject in shadow & accentuates the outline and only lights some features.

I think Andy's example is simply a standard-lit portrait against a black lighting.

It could be to do with common misuse of the terminology. A portrait on a blown white background isn't necessarily high key - that depends on the lighting of the subject. I think it would be technically possibly (although unusual) to have a high-key shot against a black background and a low-key shot against a white one.

Phil
 
Is this more what you mean ?

self.jpg


If so then lighting was a single snooted head at about 90 degrees to the camera axis. PP was some (probably too much with hindsight) sharpening and some mopping up of unwanted details.
 
Hodders said:
Is this more what you mean ?



If so then lighting was a single snooted head at about 90 degrees to the camera axis. PP was some (probably too much with hindsight) sharpening and some mopping up of unwanted details.
Click to expand...

Definately - I was just fishing out an example from my shots and came up with the one below, but the face is lit more strongly than a true low-key shot. If her face was turned away slightly so more shadow was visible it would be a typical low-key example.

Phil

p1035225740-4.jpg
 
Last edited:
daddy day care said:
Bear in mind that my low key shot won't help you with PP. That said, if you have room to take high key shots with a hilite then you should have room for low key with a black sheet.


Kevin by Andy Miszkiel, on Flickr

This was shot with a black sheet as a background about 6 feet behind the subject. Light was to the side with a 90cm octobox about 2 feet away from subject. There was no PP on the background at all just a slight tweak on the overall levels.

As space is an issue, do you have a room that you could shoot into through a doorway? I have used this trick a few times to give me more length. The shot above was in my hallway. The light was in the doorway of the living room and I was stood in the kitchen.

HTH,

Andy
Click to expand...

Thanks andy, i can manage close to that ok but as stated i dont think this is really low key, even with this if the background can be made even back without creases showing it would be closer. Handy tip on the leaving the room to get the distance, house on market at the moment and hopefully if it sells quick enough to get the house im after i will be able to setup a dedicated studio room 24/7 which will be great.

Hodders said:
Is this more what you mean ?

self.jpg


If so then lighting was a single snooted head at about 90 degrees to the camera axis. PP was some (probably too much with hindsight) sharpening and some mopping up of unwanted details.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is more what im after for sure, thanks for taking the time to post, how did you meter for this shot?

philthejuggler said:
Definately - I was just fishing out an example from my shots and came up with the one below, but the face is lit more strongly than a true low-key shot. If her face was turned away slightly so more shadow was visible it would be a typical low-key example.

Phil

p1035225740-4.jpg
Click to expand...

Cheers for this Phil, can you advise how to go about this? How do you meter for this, should the exposure still be as normal but just different angles?
 
Isn't low key just a general term for a image with a high level of black on the histogram?
 
chazp1979 said:
Isn't low key just a general term for a image with a high level of black on the histogram?
Click to expand...

No - from my understanding that's an oversimplification.


As for the exposure, Mike, this was a very simple setup.

There was no backdrop and it was simply taken in a living room.

I pointed a honeycomb snoot downwards from a tall stand and used a flashmeter by the face pointing towards the camera.

HTH

Phil
 
I have used a large black sheet, with 1 soft box, and a hair light to create seperation between the subject & back ground.

Extremely effective, and a very simple setup, will post images shortly
 
If you can stop your lighting spilling onto the background then it should be pretty easy to get it looking black without PP. Have a look at this example, achieved in very limited space and with a mid-grey background....

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=3076553&postcount=7

If you do go the PP route then, as you have discovered, making a global change like adjusting the black point is going to screw up other parts of the image. As I use Lightroom my approach would simply be to paint in a reduction in exposure/brightness using the local adjustment brush, making sure only to affect the background area.
 
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