Help with local paper

wegotitugetit

wegotitugetit

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Name
alex
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Yes
im after some help

i currently taking photos for a local club who get published in the local paper

here is my situation although im the official photographer now , there is another photogapher who covers the game and already sends off to the local media ie his shots get published . Im not a complete idiot so i stay away from that area as he was covering it before me and i dont want to upset him and i wouldnt want the same happening to me

i cover some away games and the last one i sent a report ( some one else in the club did tthe report i just sent it in ) and some photos covering the game but not one got published nor did the report could this be because i previosuly did not speak to them .

i have a phone number is it best to give the local paper a ring and introduc myself , what should i be asking

im doing a away game tonight so hoping to get published this time
 
Try different papers? Contact the sports editors? I got peed off with the locals as they would 'only give credit'. So I stopped submitting. However, the Club talked to one local about getting more coverage, so now I submit to them only. No way to make a living, though.
 
Photodiva said:
Try different papers? Contact the sports editors? I got peed off with the locals as they would 'only give credit'. So I stopped submitting. However, the Club talked to one local about getting more coverage, so now I submit to them only. No way to make a living, though.
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im not after making a money and they certainly are not a national team

they are in the NCEL premiership division , 1 league below the unibond division which is where there trying to get

it is more fun than anything for me but tht occasional published photo would be good ,

when i say local paper they also cover hull city , hull fc , full kr , i few teams in high leagues
 
I'm far from an expert on these matters but if I was in your position I would suggest contacting the Sports Editor and explain your situation.

From my dealings with local papers, in a paid and non-paid capacity, some are more than happy to carry club notes on a regular basis as page fillers but don't run contributors match reports/photos as they have their own reporters/snappers at games and only go with the games their staff cover.

Others then have had no problem with Clubs submitting match reports along with Club Notes and photos.

And then some others again do not print photos they did not explicitly request as they are unsure if the sender is expecting payment.

I've found that it's horses for courses and so its best to make contact and explain the situation to make sure there's no confusion on either side.
 
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if it is a paper that cover hull city they will have a budget for photography. it may be fun for you to see your photograph published but think of the bigger picture. you wanting to do it for 'fun' may be playing a part in a professional not being sent to the match in future because they know people will send in free pictures for fun and a credit. if you value your photographs why give them away for free?
 
If this paper in question is the Hull Daily Mail then they have several well paid staff sports photographers who would be seriously ****ed if they thought the paper was giving up column inchage to someone submitting for free.

I know 2 staff photographers who have lost their jobs simply because "amateurs" are submitting decent pics for free.

Thers a guy local to me who submits free to my local paper and im sick to the back teeth of telling him that they used to pay me so they will pay him, he wont listen, he even had the balls to ask me how to go about working for an agency, yeah, like id even consider giving the fool any advice.
 
so the suggestion is to speak to the editor but not mention about free images

and ask about how to get the images published for away games not interfearing with home games ????

one thing i dont want is to upset people and upset other photographers


and yes hull daily mail , the team is Hall road rangers not a major league team , iwas told from a friend most there photographers are private
 
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wegotitugetit said:
so the suggestion is to speak to the editor but not mention about free images
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That will always be the answer for every question like this for everyone... You know where you are and what the script is once you speak to the pic editor

wegotitugetit said:
and ask about how to get the images published for away games not interfearing with home games ????
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No thats his job... I would ask if he has any requirements from "club x" away games and would he be interested in purchasing any images from such games..

The likely scenario is that he has a staff photographer who pops in to home games .. its no extra cost for him and he wont be interested in spending money on away games.. Yes he will ahve a budget but budgets have limits and he probably wont stretch to paying extra for your team..

wegotitugetit said:
one thing i dont want is to upset people and upset other photographers
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oops too late.. not me but look around.. just the mention of free to newspapers and your branded I am afraid :( even in this thread... If the actual photographers who cover the games find out they will be even less pleased... doesnt matter if away only..


wegotitugetit said:
and yes hull daily mail , the team is Hall road rangers not a major league team , iwas told from a friend most there photographers are private
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Most but not all and I would bet the guy covering the home games is on a shift anyway...

PS contact the picture editor not the papers editor IMHO :)
 
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KIPAX said:
PS contact the picture editor not the papers editor IMHO :)
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Kipax has about summed it up but don't try ringing the Picture ed as hull doesn't really have one any more best thing to do would be to chat to the sports editor. Ring Midweek as its when they are normally quite unless its the day before or after a big game.

Hull as a paper also has quite a bit of a budget the most in the area, and I know they do pay some of their freelancers
 
Alex I'm interested in how this "Other Photographer" gets his shots in ahead of you as you are the club photographer,I am the club photographer for a team one rung lower than yours and I have had no problem getting my shots in the local rag.Was this other photographer already taking shots before you started and does he just take your team or others as well?
I always submit mine with the official match report so maybe that is something you could consider but as others more experienced than I have said get in touch with the paper first
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Alex I'm interested in how this "Other Photographer" gets his shots in ahead of you as you are the club photographer,I am the club photographer for a team one rung lower than yours and I have had no problem getting my shots in the local rag.Was this other photographer already taking shots before you started and does he just take your team or others as well?
I always submit mine with the official match report so maybe that is something you could consider but as others more experienced than I have said get in touch with the paper first
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Do you get paid for your published images Nigel ?
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Alex I'm interested in how this "Other Photographer" gets his shots in ahead of you as you are the club photographer,I am the club photographer for a team one rung lower than yours and I have had no problem getting my shots in the local rag.Was this other photographer already taking shots before you started and does he just take your team or others as well?
I always submit mine with the official match report so maybe that is something you could consider but as others more experienced than I have said get in touch with the paper first
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he was there before me but i help out with there website etc and the press officer wants me to submit them aswell but the other photographer is something to do with the bosses son so i have to tread carefully

i know he has applied for a liscense so he can do hull city which would be perfect for me lol as he wouldnt be there as most matches at home are on the same day as hall road's matches som im just waiting paitentley

but i am going to approach the owner to see if there is any implacations if not images will be submitted , im good firends with the press officer so will be chatting to him too
 
im sorry if i upset any one with the word free lol

i didnt mean to upset any one i have never submitted and been succesfull so it's kind of new to me and i didnt expect to be paid but if this is the way then so be it i will be happy been paid lol

i suppose i have just started the old wedding style threads with this lol
 
Tugster said:
Do you get paid for your published images Nigel ?
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Not initially and I got deservedly slaughtered on here for mentioning that but I am now in negotiations with the paper as they publish my shots on a regular basis.
Saying that what sort of payment should I be expecting for a tier 10 league.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Not initially and I got deservedly slaughtered on here for mentioning that but I am now in negotiations with the paper as they publish my shots on a regular basis.
Saying that what sort of payment should I be expecting for a tier 10 league.
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Why does the standard matter? All that matters is the standard of your work. If they really want to use it they'll pay the standard rate. I still cannot comprehend why you would devalue your work.
 
kieranmcmanus said:
Why does the standard matter? All that matters is the standard of your work. If they really want to use it they'll pay the standard rate. I still cannot comprehend why you would devalue your work.
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I dont devalue my work Kieran but I assume (Maybe wrongly) that you get paid more dependant on the level of league that you are photographing.Isn't a shot of a Wayne Rooney goal worth more than that of a Rickie Anslow (Our centre forward) goal,then again Rooney's do have rarity value recently .
 
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My club said football focus magazine was going to do an article on them, and could they use my images. Fine, I said, what rate do they offer? Oh, we don't think they pay for images, they said. Well, I heard no more. I thought initially this was a print magazine, but perhaps it is just web based. Anyhow they did an article on the club, but no photos at all, not even a stock one of the ground. Anyone else familiar with this enterprise?
 
CaptainPenguin said:
I assume (Maybe wrongly) that you get paid more dependant on the level of league that you are photographing.Isn't a shot of a Wayne Rooney goal worth more than that of a Rickie Anslow (Our centre forward) goal,then again Rooney's do have rarity value recently .
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Nope thats not how it works... Local papers pay per pic or per job or in some cases per inch... they dont look at the pic and decide how much its worth... how would you set a price pre match like that?

So You submit a pic of wayne rooney scoring and I submit a pic of fred bloggs scoring... we both get published and we both get same size picture say 6 inch by 4 inch .... we should both get paid the same..
 
KIPAX said:
Nope thats not how it works... Local papers pay per pic or per job or in some cases per inch... they dont look at the pic and decide how much its worth... how would you set a price pre match like that?

So You submit a pic of wayne rooney scoring and I submit a pic of fred bloggs scoring... we both get published and we both get same size picture say 6 inch by 4 inch .... we should both get paid the same..
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Many thanks for that Kipax what sort of fee should I be asking for from a regional newspaper for say that 6x4 shot
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Many thanks for that Kipax what sort of fee should I be asking for from a regional newspaper for say that 6x4 shot
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All reguonal papers ahve different budgets... I recenty did work for one paper owned by company X and they had a 50 quid match fee for pics.. so no matter how many they use its 50 quid.... Same rules at another paper owned by same company X and the budget was 25 quid a match...

Who owns the paper? Regionals will probably go for pay per match.. you submit as many pics as you can and they choose whatever they want..

Someone will be along to tell you they work differently.. But thats how the ones "up north" seem to work :)
 
Actually just thinking about the in's and out's of these kind of situations and was wondering what are peoples views on if the OP was the official club photographer, and paid by the club to take pics and submit them with notes/reports etc to the papers.

The paper wouldn't be paying for the images as they were sent in by the club but at the same time the OPs work isn't devalued as the club are paying for it.

From a clubs point of view they just want coverage and it wouldn't enter their minds about the papers staffers/freelancers so long as they get coverage, while at the same time the OP mightn't want to step on toes of others, but they are getting paid to do the work.
 
If the club pay the photogrpaher to take the pictures then the club will own the copyright to the pictures... its then up to the club what they do with them..If they freely give them to the local paper then its still a problem but caused by the club not the photographer..


I should add.... IMHO
 
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Tend to agree with KIPAX here, i get paid by an agency to shoot games, i then have no say in whats done with them afterwards.
 
KIPAX said:
I should add.... IMHO
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:)
I think that should be built in to everyone's sig for these kind of debates :)

Good point about there still being a problem, just created by someone else.
I'm not sure what level of coverage the OPs team/league gets but I was assuming that it was low enough, coverage wise, and so it wouldn't be putting others noses out of joint as it wouldn't be something they were covering anyway.

Interesting one to mull over all the same .... IMHO :lol:
 
EireAsh said:
:)
Good point about there still being a problem, just created by someone else.
I'm not sure what level of coverage the OPs team/league gets but I was assuming that it was low enough, coverage wise, and so it wouldn't be putting others noses out of joint as it wouldn't be something they were covering anyway.
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Unfortunatly thats an old argument that doesnt stand up... I used it myself many moons ago... If no one else was there what does it matter what I do with the pics?.. well no one else will ever go there because you are there? :)
 
Gary Coyle said:
Tend to agree with KIPAX here, i get paid by an agency to shoot games, i then have no say in whats done with them afterwards.
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Actually that's probably a better example ... would, or could, a case arise where a paper might have a staffer/freelancer at a game, they submit images but an agency has a snapper at a game and their images are also submitted to the same paper. The agency shots are used and the staffer/freelancer gets nowt.?

(Sorry if that all sounds a bit mad or impossible, its just something that popped into my head)
 
KIPAX said:
If the club pay the photogrpaher to take the pictures then the club will own the copyright to the pictures... its then up to the club what they do with them..If they freely give them to the local paper then its still a problem but caused by the club not the photographer..


I should add.... IMHO
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Thats the answer Kipax I'll get the club to pay me


Or Not :lol::lol::lol:

Thanks for all the advice
 
KIPAX said:
If no one else was there what does it matter what I do with the pics?.. well no one else will ever go there because you are there? :)
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Haha, yeah its a bit of a catch 22. From the clubs point of view they weren't getting much coverage in the first place ... and now that they provide their own, nobody else will want to cover them. Some just cant win :bonk:
 
Bluesman graham said:
Hi Nigel,it's not set in stone but here's a link to a pricing ladder used!
http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/index.php?&section=Photography&subsect=All&subsubs=All.
& Alex whatever you do don't offer to undercut going rates:thumbs:
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Thanks Graham this is an interesting quote from that link but its not going to stop me trying to get something from them now that I have
"Hopefully made a name for myself"

"Some regional and provincial newspapers pay such low rates that the NUJ cannot actually recommend that such work is undertaken, unless the photographer can compensate by using the pictures as stock, or needs to make a name for him/herself. "


Oh and Alex sorry if I appear to have hijacked your thread hopefully all this information will be of much use to you as it is to me.
 
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CaptainPenguin said:
Thats the answer Kipax I'll get the club to pay me


Or Not :lol::lol::lol:

Thanks for all the advice
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It wasnt advice it was an answer... if you actually do that as a way around charging the paper then your the problem... if your going about your business and the club do it then they are the problem...

sorry :)
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Thanks Graham this is an interesting quote from that link but its not going to stop me trying to get something from them now that I have
"Hopefully made a name for myself"

"Some regional and provincial newspapers pay such low rates that the NUJ cannot actually recommend that such work is undertaken, unless the photographer can compensate by using the pictures as stock, or needs to make a name for him/herself. "
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wow.. never seen that before... kinda shoots themselves (and everyone else going on about charging) in the foot :)
 
EireAsh said:
Actually that's probably a better example ... would, or could, a case arise where a paper might have a staffer/freelancer at a game, they submit images but an agency has a snapper at a game and their images are also submitted to the same paper. The agency shots are used and the staffer/freelancer gets nowt.?

(Sorry if that all sounds a bit mad or impossible, its just something that popped into my head)
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Yes and No... but not madness... its happened to me :) But if a paper has you there then a fee has already been agreed and you ahve gone and done the job. freelance or staff.. if the paper send you then your getting paid... quality doesnt come into it at that point..

I did a match for a paper on commision... an agency was there and the goal scorer ran straight to him and not me... the paper used his pic and will ahve paid... But I did what they asked so I got paid as well.. absoloutly 100% true.
 
KIPAX said:
Yes and No... but not madness... its happened to me :) But if a paper has you there then a fee has already been agreed and you ahve gone and done the job. freelance or staff.. if the paper send you then your getting paid... quality doesnt come into it at that point..

I did a match for a paper on commision... an agency was there and the goal scorer ran straight to him and not me... the paper used his pic and will ahve paid... But I did what they asked so I got paid as well.. absoloutly 100% true.
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Ditto has happened to me too:(, but, as much as I love taking pics of sport If I'm owed money agreed they godda pay:)!.
 
while i am checking this thread I ahve an email from a paper wanting a pic.. I ahve just replied.. I am almost certain they will say no budget... but they say urgent and need today so they might :)...
 
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Hi Tony, if they've asked & want it they'll pay!, as a publication they'll know it's not for nowt!
 
Bluesman graham said:
Hi Tony, if they've asked & want it they'll pay!, as a publication they'll know it's not for nowt!
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yer kidding... its happened to me all too often... they ask.. i ask what budget they say none and i apologise to them!! for not being able to help them on this occasion :)

lets see how bad they want it :)
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Thanks Graham this is an interesting quote from that link but its not going to stop me trying to get something from them now that I have
"Hopefully made a name for myself"

"Some regional and provincial newspapers pay such low rates that the NUJ cannot actually recommend that such work is undertaken, unless the photographer can compensate by using the pictures as stock, or needs to make a name for him/herself. "


Oh and Alex sorry if I appear to have hijacked your thread hopefully all this information will be of much use to you as it is to me.
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no worries nigel this is alot of use to me im ust sitting here and reading this is the kind of stuff i like to see and what keeps this forum going

Kipax thanks for all your input once again i have learnt something from you

Gary - again thank you for your input

you are both spot on guys and TP is lucky to have you both

and to the rest that have applied thank you for the posts we are lucky to have such a good forum with all you doing your part

thanks
 
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