Help with Hilite setup

I've only got that and the kit lens!

I'm using it on a DX camera so effectively 52.5mm on 35mm equivalent!
 
landerson07 said:
I've only got that and the kit lens!

I'm using it on a DX camera so effectively 52.5mm on 35mm equivalent!
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Try the kit lens at 50-ish mm. 35mm is too short for solo portraits anyway.

That might help, but you've got to screen off the background.
 
landerson07 said:
Will do! Would a black sheet taped to the wall be OK?
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That would stop unwanted light reflecting from a white wall - generally a good thing to do, but not relevant here.

As Richard keeps saying, you need to mask off the Hi-Lite. What that means is that you need to put something opaque (black card, cinefoil, thick black cloth etc) on the Hi-lite so that the only part showing white is the bit that needs to be white - the bit immediately behind the subject. If you want 'extra' white each side you can very easily add it in Photoshop later. NOT doing that is creating unnecessary flare.

Wideangle lenses are especially prone to flare, apart from accepting a wider angle (including he lit bits of the Hi-lite that you don't want) they are prone to flare because of their construction and the shape of the front bit of glass, so are best avoided.

Other notorious causes of flare are dirty lenses, filters, poor lens hoods. And of course, including a light source, such as the Hi-Lite, in the frame.
 
Ah, sorry I understand what Richard was saying now! I'm thinking some black fabric of some sort with Velcro to hold it in place on the hilite would work?

Maybe *******ize a black out blind?

I would never have thought of doing that! I love this forum lol
 
landerson07 said:
Ah, sorry I understand what Richard was saying now! I'm thinking some black fabric of some sort with Velcro to hold it in place on the hilite would work?

Maybe *******ize a black out blind?

I would never have thought of doing that! I love this forum lol
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Try the kit lens, you never know. It will certainly take in less of the background.

The ideal is to screen off bright light at source, ie black card or paper, sellotape and clothes pegs on the HiLite - top, bottom and sides. But any method that stops excess light from hitting the lens, positioned anywhere between the light source and camera.Eg, scroll down here the the studio view and the bi-fold doors http://www.zarias.com/white-seamless-tutorial-part-1-gear-space/
 
HoppyUK said:
Try the kit lens, you never know. It will certainly take in less of the background.

The ideal is to screen off bright light at source, ie black card or paper, sellotape and clothes pegs on the HiLite - top, bottom and sides. But any method that stops excess light from hitting the lens, positioned anywhere between the light source and camera.Eg, scroll down here the the studio view and the bi-fold doors http://www.zarias.com/white-seamless-tutorial-part-1-gear-space/
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In all of the posts I've read about the hilite I have never seen anyone doing this?? I will certainly give it a go though.

My batteries are nearly dead with all the failed attempts lol but here is one before I have my tea.

The hilite was metered at f11, the lens was the kit lens at 50mm, 1/160, f7.1 (90% of the white background was blinking at me apart from the bottom right) and there was no key light. I don't have a hood for this lens so might have to invest in one. Are official Nikon only ones recommended??

Thanks again for all your help, I'll get there eventually, but looking at this latest photo I think a big part of the problem was the 35mm

Edit: sorry forgot to say the room light was turned on above the subject

dsc1596y.jpg
 
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There is still flare there, it is still overexposed, but you're getting there...


Richard posted something a while back about a lens hood that he had made/adapted. Basically it ended up in the shape of the actual sensor, and it works. It doesn't matter which make of lens hood you use as long as it does a good job of shielding the lens from the light, so you need a deep one. One of the cheap rubber ones is likely to be at least as good as something with an expensive brand name written on it.
 
landerson07 said:
In all of the posts I've read about the hilite I have never seen anyone doing this?? I will certainly give it a go though.

My batteries are nearly dead with all the failed attempts lol but here is one before I have my tea.

The hilite was metered at f11, the lens was the kit lens at 50mm, 1/160, f7.1 (90% of the white background was blinking at me apart from the bottom right) and there was no key light. I don't have a hood for this lens so might have to invest in one. Are official Nikon only ones recommended??

Thanks again for all your help, I'll get there eventually, but looking at this latest photo I think a big part of the problem was the 35mm

Edit: sorry forgot to say the room light was turned on above the subject

<snip>
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Then you have never read any of my posts ;)

I'm surprised the lens has made quite that much difference, but a bit more focal length was always going to help. The subject looks a bit under, so turn the front light up 0.6 stops and it'll look better still, then screening the background will sort it properly.

A lens hood is always a good idea for protection, but it won't do much there. Even if it was good and deep (which it can't be, or it would vignette at 18mm) it would only be effective against light coming from some way outside the image area, and the problem here is all the brightness blasting straight into the lens.

Edit, crossed post with Garry. Yes, I have a DIY custom lens hood that works well, because it 'zooms' to maintain a perfect fit with the sensor at all focal lengths. It is also huge - leave that for another day :D I used to use the hood from a Canon 100-400L on a 17-55 for portraits taken at the long end. That was quite effective too, being four inches deep but the best answer here is to screen the background. Just to see what that can do, try some big pieces of cardboad and fashion them into a huge rectangle for the lens to peek through, then get someone to hold it a foot or two in front of the lens so it just clears the main subject and blocks everything else. Do that right and the image will sparkle :thumbs:
 
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HoppyUK said:
Then you have never read any of my posts ;)

I'm surprised the lens has made quite that much difference, but a bit more focal length was always going to help. The subject looks a bit under, so turn the front light up 0.6 stops and it'll look better still, then screening the background will sort it properly.

A lens hood is always a good idea for protection, but it won't do much there. Even if it was good and deep (which it can't be, or it would vignette at 18mm) it would only be effective against light coming from some way outside the image area, and the problem here is all the brightness blasting straight into the lens.
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Most of it will be, once he has masked it, but the way I read it that hasn't happened yet.
 
I haven't masked the hilite yet or used any front light today!

Just to double check when masking the background do I do as Richard said and hold it off the hilite towards the camera or do I fix it onto the hilite?

Richard do you have posts or pictures of you screening the hilite?
 
With the HiLite, the flash head goes into the side of it with a bare bulb right? So how come the white diffuser nearest the bulb isn't hugely overblown, a stop more than everywhere else?
 
landerson07 said:
I haven't masked the hilite yet or used any front light today!

Just to double check when masking the background do I do as Richard said and hold it off the hilite towards the camera or do I fix it onto the hilite?

Richard do you have posts or pictures of you screening the hilite?
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Sorry, no pictures. Just bodge it together as best you can. It doesn't have to be a work of art, just keep as much of the light as you possible can off the lens. When you've got it working properly, you can fabricate something a bit neater
 
Trying to think of how best to screen the hilite, would 3 pass blackout curtain lining work? Should be able to make Velcro screens for less than £20?
 
landerson07 said:
Trying to think of how best to screen the hilite, would 3 pass blackout curtain lining work? Should be able to make Velcro screens for less than £20?
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Anything that stops the light.
Cinefoil, black cardboard, black bath towel, black curtain materials, it really doesn't make all that much difference whether it totally stops all light or just nearly all of it.

You may want it to look pretty but your lens won't care.
 
landerson07 said:
Trying to think of how best to screen the hilite, would 3 pass blackout curtain lining work? Should be able to make Velcro screens for less than £20?
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If I was doing it, I'd go for something like those bi-folding doors that Zak Arias uses in the link above. Effective, easy, versatile, and if you need to block light from above and below as well, you can attach something between them.

If you just blank off areas of the HiLite, that will kill the flare for sure, but it will also reduce wrap*.With moveable screens, if you put them between the camera and the subject, that will control flare; if you put them between the subject and the HiLite, that will control flare and also reduce wrap, that you may or may not want.

*Wrap is the sheen on the subject's cheeks etc, which is actually the light from the background reflected off the skin and is a all part of the white background effect. If you reduce the size of the background (by blanking it off) you will reduce the amount of wrap - same effect as moving the subject further away from the background. Wrap is subjective, but you need at least some to make it look right. How much is down to taste.
 
Triggaaar said:
With the HiLite, the flash head goes into the side of it with a bare bulb right? So how come the white diffuser nearest the bulb isn't hugely overblown, a stop more than everywhere else?
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You should be using a reflector on your flash head inside the hilite.... And aiming it towards the back of the unit. The interior is a reflective PVC and will bounce it back, aiding in the spread of light.
 
OK, back with my latest test run.

The below images were all taken with my kit lens, no hood although this is on order, no front key light, 1/160 shutter speed, f8 on camera, hilite metered to f9 (1/4 power on flashes).

This is my efforts and flagging out the excess light causing flare from the hilite.

First image to show that no ambient light is affecting the shot:

dsc1604ew.jpg


This image is with the hilite and no flagging:

dsc1612t.jpg


This image is with flagging flat against the hilite

dsc1615h.jpg


Flagging level with the front of the nose

dsc1616g.jpg


Flagging between the subject and the camera

dsc1618s.jpg



Now there is a clear difference between these images, but which one would be best suited in my setup to add the front key light?? Or indeed do I still need to try something else??
 
Flagging/screening the HiLite at different distances changes the amount of wrap, as per my previous post. But you can't see the wrap with this subject - needs some human skin, to check the difference it makes on cheeks, neck, arms etc.

How close to the edges of the frame is the screening, and what have you used for that? Top and bottom too?
 
I used 3 pass black out fabric just out of frame and I only flagged the sides.

I'll convince the gf to pose for me before tea ;)
 
Right so some very quick ones with the gf

No flagging

dsc1622kb.jpg



On the hilite

dsc1627g.jpg


Level with subjects

dsc1626i.jpg


In front of Subjects

dsc1625d.jpg



Think I've put them in the right order lol. Subjects were only inches from the hilite and again only side flagging
 
You decide. I prefer a bit of wrap with this kind of look, and flagging against the HiLite has certainly reduced that. What is 3 pass black, and did you use that for all pics? Something's happening with the exposure and amount of front fill-in you're getting.
 
It's blackout curtain lining! The shots were very rushed so the flags were probably all over the place, thinking on I think the room light which is above the subjects was also on?

I think I prefer the flags between subject and camera?
 
landerson07 said:
It's blackout curtain lining! The shots were very rushed so the flags were probably all over the place, thinking on I think the room light which is above the subjects was also on?

I think I prefer the flags between subject and camera?
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Yes. Is that material lighter on one side? Something is reflecting in your GF's eyes in last shot, lifting the exposure.
 
Yeah both sides are different, I think one is smooth? I'll try turning it around

I've been just using a flag straight across and not 90 degrees if you know what I mean? I.e across and back towards the hilite? What's the best way?
 
landerson07 said:
Yeah both sides are different, I think one is smooth? I'll try turning it around

I've been just using a flag straight across and not 90 degrees if you know what I mean? I.e across and back towards the hilite? What's the best way?
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No, not really. There is no right or wrong way, whatever way it takes to block as much light from outside the image area as possible, and gets the result you want.
 
I think I'm going to try directly on the hilite but reduce the amount of covered area! Will be a lot easier for me on the area I have to work in
 
landerson07 said:
I think I'm going to try directly on the hilite but reduce the amount of covered area! Will be a lot easier for me on the area I have to work in
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That is the opposite of what you want.
 
I mean cover it like in my photo, but adjust the amount of coverage to see how it affects wrap?
 
landerson07 said:
I mean cover it like in my photo, but adjust the amount of coverage to see how it affects wrap?
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Move the subject forward towards the camera to reduce wrap, but keep those flags blocking as much as possible.

I didn't realise your subject was so close to the HiLite. That is not helping with flare. Ideally you need to move back with a longer lens, like 85-ish, and move the subject forward. You need space to do this properly, and it's never easy.
 
This is definitely not as easy as I thought it was going to be lol.

OK so here are 3 images shot with the kit lens but I remembered I had a cheap chinese uv filter on the front so I have removed this now.

I have added in the key light which is camera left and about 45 degrees to the subject

I tried various flagging positions and I'm not overly convinced I liked any of the results??

Anyway these are unflagged, the hilite is f10 and the key light is f9 (I think lol)

Camera at f9
dsc1753s.jpg



Camera at f10
dsc1754j.jpg



Camera at f11 (no blinkies from the hilite)
dsc1755e.jpg


The subject is also a little further forward than the previous ones. No chance of a human subject today :(
 
You just noticed the UV filter... :eek: :thinking: :suspect: :nono:

You're getting there, but there's a bit to do on the key light positioning - closer to camera, unless you like those shadows, or at least fill-in a bit with a reflector - also post processing with colour and contrast. Use very light make-up to reduce skin reflections.
 
HoppyUK said:
You just noticed the UV filter... :eek: :thinking: :suspect: :nono:

You're getting there, but there's a bit to do on the key light positioning - closer to camera, unless you like those shadows, or at least fill-in a bit with a reflector - also post processing with colour and contrast. Use very light make-up to reduce skin reflections.
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I haven't used the lens since November so plain forgot about the uv filter :bang:

Good to hear i'm on the right track though :clap: I just wanted to get somewhere with the wrap and flare today so wasn't really thinking about my key light placement but when I uploaded the photos I thought to myself that I would use the reflector next time and try to balance some fill lighting.

So tomorrows task will be to try different positions with the key light and reflector, then PP, then the dreaded train lol

It's felt like a long road but i'm loving every minute of it especially when it starts to look half decent :D

I've read back on some of your previous posts about lighting and they've really helped so thank you for all your input, its much appreciated
 
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You're welcome fella. Good luck :)
 
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